Reintroducing Socotra blue baboons

[miyu]

I've not seen any studies on whether tarantulas can remember things for periods of years. It's somewhat rare to find studies on that sort of memory for any animal, because it'd mean the study would have to run for years. Also, the majority of spider memory studies I've seen have been on jumping spiders.

Knowing if people have tried this wouldn't help much, as people have also sometimes put strangers together and had it work. It'd need a proper study with controls to show whether they're more likely to tolerate spiders they knew from before and whether there's a time limit on that.

Realistically, I don't see science being too interested in this unless they find communal behaviour in the wild. The political situation means you're not going to see much happening with this for some time.

That makes sense. The only long term study I’ve seen on any tarantula was about the armored tarantula in Australia that lived to 43 and died when a wasp killed it. Such a bitter end to a 40+ year study!

I know someone that has the contact information for the foremost expert in tarantulas in the Western Hemisphere, I might just have to reach out to him and see what other information on T memory I can get, even if it is nerve wracking.

You can check the pedipalps to see if they have bulbous pedipalps as all mature males will have them to use for breeding.

Oh my! Mine might just be then. Poor thing. Well I’ll try to make it as comfortable as possible. It’s colors are particularly muted so I’m hoping it maybe has one more molt ahead of it but if it doesn’t so be it, I’ll love him broken legs and all.
I don’t think I see red emboli which when I looked and another thread said it was also something to look for so maybe it does have 1 more? Either way doesn’t matter to me.

Though with the broken legs I suppose he’d wouldn’t be a good candidate for breeding if I don’t want him to be eaten.

I do find it interesting that their size is so inconsistent. Are there any other tarantulas that are similar in that regard?

 

[Crazyarachnoguy]

Life is also a lot easier when you aren’t hated.
It’s also not clear or direct if it comes across as rude and it isn’t your intention.

also I’m the one who created the thread, I get the announcement anyway, @ ing the person who made the thread just seems redundant if that’s the only reason

There are a select few that are very rude. We all know who they are and typically ignore their replies.

 

[miyu]

There are a select few that are very rude. We all know who they are and typically ignore their replies.

I see that. Very few have ever changed another’s mind on the internet but still I can’t stand that kind of childish behavior. Still thank you for the heads up.

 

[Crazyarachnoguy]

Same here lol it took years for me to brush things like this off. Now almost 30 it’s nothing lol.

 

[miyu]

Same here lol it took years for me to brush things like this off. Now almost 30 it’s nothing lol.

I’m nearing my 30s as well. I’m just in academia and that kind of stunted behavior isn’t accepted. Well it is but only by people who’ve proved themselves and only to each other. I can normally brush of the behavior, and have in my previous threads because I can tell he truly cares for tarantulas and obviously wants what’s best for them, however he goes about it completely wrong. He’d be a terrible teacher. “No research! You must already know this and accept what I say and what I say alone as fact!”

But the truth is that tarantula husbandry is in its infancy, much insect husbandry is! The first ant farms were only made in the 1930s and became popular in the 50’s. While it seems William J. Baerg might have been housing tarantulas since 1918 I’d wager a guess and say the hobby itself didn’t become wider spread than that until sometime in the 60’s or 70’s based on reports from people online that joined the hobby early.

We still have so much to learn about T’s in every capacity so it bothers me when people just don’t want questions asked! We have a truly unique ability here to gather data and share it to make our T’s and the T’s of the world, better understood. By asking these questions and doing research we can fill in gaps that are left because of the lack of care and funding for our fuzzy friends. We can create a bridge of knowledge that will lead to better research! But I know you know this crazyArachnoguy. Just felt the need to write out my passions.

 

[Crazyarachnoguy]

We still have so much to learn about T’s in every capacity so it bothers me when people just don’t want questions asked! We have a truly unique ability here to gather data and share it to make our T’s and the T’s of the world, better understood. By asking these questions and doing research we can fill in gaps that are left because of the lack of care and funding for our fuzzy friends. We can create a bridge of knowledge that will lead to better research! But I know you know this crazyArachnoguy. Just felt the need to write out my passions.

You and I are on the same wave length for sure, couldn’t have said it better!

 

[moricollins]

So here's the thing. There are people on this forum, and other animal care forms, that don't just answer the questions being asked, such as your "theoretical" question, but provide answers that will be found if someone happens to search for the answer and finds this thread so that someone who is new and searches for the answer can see the information from people who have been keeping these animals for decades and can judge the rest of the information as they wish.

There have been far more failures than successes with communal tarantulas, of every species that's been tried. Unfortunately, there's not a ton of "non-confirmation bias" that goes on where people admit their mistakes. You'll see tons of people post they're great new idea and new communal group and then disappear.

There have been attempted to keep many species communally, none have broadly been successful long-term. Genuses have included: Avicularia species, hysterocrates, Poecilotheria, holothele, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. None of whom have been successfully kept communally for a long time. Cannibalism virtually always occurs.

Oh, and we've seen lots of questions posed as "theoretical" when they were something the poster was going to try but called it theoretical so they didn't get backlash. So, many of us don't take the word theoretical as a theoretical question.

 

[miyu]

So here's the thing. There are people on this forum, and other animal care forms, that don't just answer the questions being asked, such as your "theoretical" question, but provide answers that will be found if someone happens to search for the answer and finds this thread so that someone who is new and searches for the answer can see the information from people who have been keeping these animals for decades and can judge the rest of the information as they wish.

There have been far more failures than successes with communal tarantulas, of every species that's been tried. Unfortunately, there's not a ton of "non-confirmation bias" that goes on where people admit their mistakes. You'll see tons of people post they're great new idea and new communal group and then disappear.

There have been attempted to keep many species communally, none have broadly been successful long-term. Genuses have included: Avicularia species, hysterocrates, Poecilotheria, holothele, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. None of whom have been successfully kept communally for a long time. Cannibalism virtually always occurs.

Oh, and we've seen lots of questions posed as "theoretical" when they were something the poster was going to try but called it theoretical so they didn't get backlash. So, many of us don't take the word theoretical as a theoretical question.

Confirmation bias is a very good point and something to keep in mind, thank you for that point.

I understand the trepidation, however I suggest taking people at face value. It is people’s own fault if they make a mistake, they’d have still done it weather you were rude or not. I, and likely many other driven away, are people trying to learn from the successes and failures of others and get a fuller view. What would be more helpful to people reading that might be trying to come to a decision is fuller explanations of what went wrong, how and why they failed instead of vague don’t do it because I did and it was bad or they died and that’s all that you need to know. It’s entirely unhelpful. And honestly the hostility would make many people untrusting of what is being said- who do you think in this thread comes across as easier to talk to and ask questions of? You or crazyarachnoguy who is an advocate of communal setups? Why might someone be more willing to talk to him do you think?

And yes the scare quotes around theoretical did come across as hostile in a “you can’t prove I meant to be” way.

I understand that communal set ups have their risks- if you’d read what I’ve written earlier (end of page 1 I believe) it was mostly sparked because I didn’t trust what a pet store employee told me, as I didn’t believe reintroduction would be possible or wise despite them trying to upsell me and tell me how cool a communal set up would be. Looking deeper into M. Balfouri fascinated me though. Where I am on this topic is that I don’t believe long term cohabitation is viable. But I do think we have a duty to study these creatures and learn from eachother. Finding out things like length of time before cannibalism, behavior leading up to it, ect, is all useful and scientific data that could be being collected and written about so we can gain deeper understanding. And anything you remember about those experiences would be appreciated if you don’t mind sharing.

You’re right that people won’t come back and share their failures, and the kind of aggression that’s been going on in this thread is exactly why. It doesn’t make people want to come back and discuss where they went wrong or ever admit that it did. It just makes people hide away their mistakes- mistakes that are useful and could be learned from and would do a much better job of turning people from communal.

Immediate attacks only turn people away and sour their opinion of the community at large. I don’t know about you but I think I’d rather be part of a community that understands how much we have to learn and wants to know more about the animals we love than one that shuts down inquiry with rudeness.

 

[moricollins]

What would be more helpful to people reading that might be trying to come to a decision is fuller explanations of what went wrong, how and why they failed instead of vague don’t do it because I did and it was bad or they died and that’s all that you need to know. It’s entirely unhelpful.

Except that the people who have had them fail often don't talk about why they failed, often just a picture of one critter eating another.
I disagree that when @Iamconstantlyhappy posted their experience it wasn't helpful. You wanted first hand experience, you got it. Sure they didn't write an essay for you to read, but they provided direct information to you.

And honestly the hostility would make many people untrusting of what is being said- who do you think in this thread comes across as easier to talk to and ask questions of? You or crazyarachnoguy who is an advocate of communal setups? Why might someone be more willing to talk to him do you think?

Where have I been anything but polite, if direct to the point, in this thread?

And yes the scare quotes around theoretical did come across as hostile in a “you can’t prove I meant to be” way.

Sorry, I rarely buy people saying something is theoretical when they're asking on here. Hundreds of "theoretical" threads have happened after the situation has already been decided by the poster, they just want someone to validate their idea. Maybe your question is truly theoretical, none of us can tell if you're sincere or one of the "I want validation" people.

Your definition of hostile is much different than mine. You mistake directness for hostility.

People are welcome to take whoever's advice they want, isn't really my problem.

Personally, I'll listen to the people who have been doing this for a LONG LONG LONG TIME (decades) even if they aren't the most polite in their posts. People can say " oh that moricollins is a *piece of male anatomy* " and disregard what I say, or they can read it and say "Hmm, he's been doing this for over 15 years maybe I should listen", completely their choice.

 

[miyu]

Except that the people who have had them fail often don't talk about why they failed, often just a picture of one critter eating another.
I disagree that when @Iamconstantlyhappy posted their experience it wasn't helpful. You wanted first hand experience, you got it. Sure they didn't write an essay for you to read, but they provided direct information to you.

Where have I been anything but polite, if direct to the point, in this thread?



Sorry, I rarely buy people saying something is theoretical when they're asking on here. Hundreds of "theoretical" threads have happened after the situation has already been decided by the poster, they just want someone to validate their idea. Maybe your question is truly theoretical, none of us can tell if you're sincere or one of the "I want validation" people.

Your definition of hostile is much different than mine. You mistake directness for hostility.

People are welcome to take whoever's advice they want, isn't really my problem.

Personally, I'll listen to the people who have been doing this for a LONG LONG LONG TIME (decades) even if they aren't the most polite in their posts. People can say " oh that moricollins is a *piece of male anatomy* " and disregard what I say, or they can read it and say "Hmm, he's been doing this for over 15 years maybe I should listen", completely their choice.

And again I say it goes much further to take people at face value. If they’re going to make that mistake it’ll won’t be be dictated by being rude, and honestly no one want to dig deeper to find out how experienced you are if they find you distasteful.

Directness is not hostility, but one does not need to be rude to be direct. Rudeness clouds your meaning. You’re failing to recognize how not describing details actually makes your post vague as hell as well. That post was barely helpful, it doesn’t explain anything, for all anyone can know from it he could have been doing any number of things that led to those deaths. There’s no information there that would actually confirm or deny what went wrong except that he blames it on communal and while I am inclined to believe that it was for that reason when you have so little to work off of you cannot make a truly informed consensus.

and again why might people not want to share those failures? Could it be because this board has cultivated some kind of image that makes people unwilling to share those things? People are curious by nature, they want to troubleshoot where they went wrong and why. They’re probably doing so in private chats where people won’t say “I told you so,” and “that’s what you get you terrible murderer!”
It would help more people if they didn’t but I can’t fault them for it when they’re doing so because of a negative environment.

I’d like to thank you for having this conversation, I think while here might be an inconvenient place but I think it is important for it to be public. I know many people in my local community that hate this board and use any other spider board, especially other women who are experienced in their own right. I do hope that by having this conversation at all means that you do care about that in some small way, or you wouldn’t bother sharing your side and view. I hope you see and understand my view as I am trying to do with you.

 

[EulersK]

Yeah, this has nothing to do with tarantulas at this point. Locked.