Reintroducing Socotra blue baboons

[Edan bandoot]

Yup, he is a member on here but I won’t disclose that information for privacy reasons. I have a communal setup currently, it consists of only 2 balfouri. They are thriving and doing very well. They’re always riding on each others back, almost like a piggy back ride.

does he have a small room full of em? that would be a site to behold

 

[Liquifin]

I will pm you. They reach about 6” here is a pic of my MM I just paired.

beautiful! Mine is definitely no where near that size which is good! I’d hate for him to have to go through life with so many hurt legs.

6'' for a mature male is on the large side. Mature males actually range from as small as 3.5'' all the way to a max 6''. I've had a few M. balfouri mature males and they certainly are random on mature male sizes.

 

[miyu]

6'' for a mature male is on the large side. Mature males actually range from as small as 3.5'' all the way to a max 6''. I've had a few M. balfouri mature males and they certainly are random on mature male sizes.

Oh my. How can one tell if theirs is mature or not?

 

[Liquifin]

Oh my. How can one tell if theirs is mature or not?

You can check the pedipalps to see if they have bulbous pedipalps as all mature males will have them to use for breeding.

 

[Matt Man]

600, at what size?

 

[viper69]

@miyu

Here's the deal- you mention you observed quite a few balfouri communals. However, while there are many who claim to have them, what I NEVER EVER see (with one exception so far, I'm sure there's more) are people claiming to have a communal for the entire life cycle of the animals- birth till death. The one breeder I know who did, ended up having balfouri sacmates eat other sacmate/s. It's on the internet. If you need the link let me know.

You want to dump a few together go for it, but know this- it's their LIVES at stake- for which they have ZERO say, NOT yours. If one dies, that's their blood on your hands. Some people don't mind killing of their animals, others do.

 

[miyu]

@miyu

Here's the deal- you mention you observed quite a few balfouri communals. However, while there are many who claim to have them, what I NEVER EVER see (with one exception so far, I'm sure there's more) are people claiming to have a communal for the entire life cycle of the animals- birth till death. The one breeder I know who did, ended up having balfouri sacmates eat other sacmate/s. It's on the internet. If you need the link let me know.

You want to dump a few together go for it, but know this- it's their LIVES at stake- for which they have ZERO say, NOT yours. If one dies, that's their blood on your hands. Some people don't mind killing of their animals, others do.

I’ve stated again and again that I have no plans to do so myself- please read the thread before jumping to conclusions.
I’m asking for research purposes, and would love the links.

Ive also never stated I’ve seen these myself- I’ve only observed second hand sources as, like I’ve stated, I have no intention of putting them together.

I beg of you to gain better reading comprehension before making ad hominem attacks on my moral fiber. I am asking for a better understanding of the species and why it is they seem to behave differently. I’ve seen you all over this board and I thank you for your dedication to tarantulas however your constant aggression is not appreciated.

 

[viper69]

I’ve stated again and again that I have no plans to do so myself- please read the thread before jumping to conclusions.
I’m asking for research purposes, and would love the links.

I should have been more clear. I don't mean you specifically, I mean the generic "you"

With that said, the overwhelming majority of people who ask about certain topics here aren't asking out of curiosity, they are asking out of intent. In fact, that's not unique to AB, it's human behavior. I have no proof that you would do a communal, but honestly, you come across as one who will in my experience.

M. balfouri, communal or individual?

Ordered a 1/2" pair of these and wanted to hear from other keepers on enclosures, temperment and whether to house communal or individual

www.tarantulaforum.com

 

[Crazyarachnoguy]

600, at what size?

That information was not giving but he gave me a price on the entire communal setup if he were to sell it and if I were to guess they were all adults.

 

[miyu]

I should have been more clear. I don't mean you specifically, I mean the generic "you"

With that said, the overwhelming majority of people who ask about certain topics here aren't asking out of curiosity, they are asking out of intent. In fact, that's not unique to AB, it's human behavior. I have no proof that you would do a communal, but honestly, you come across as one who will in my experience.

M. balfouri, communal or individual?

Ordered a 1/2" pair of these and wanted to hear from other keepers on enclosures, temperment and whether to house communal or individual

www.tarantulaforum.com

and again no. I had considered it if I managed to accrue enough true and well researched information from sources I found reputable and if I ever felt I was experienced enough- but that information doesn’t exist one way or another from my observation but the fact is that I have too much anxiety surrounding the well being of anything in my care and wouldn’t feel comfortable doing so without such research. Hell I had to return a pinkie mouse because it was still alive! I can barely cut a mealworm in half for my slings.
To me you come across as the type who is poor at judging character.

Thank you for the link.

 

[viper69]

and again no. I had considered it if I managed to accrue enough true and well researched information from sources I found reputable and if I ever felt I was experienced enough- but that information doesn’t exist one way or another from my observation but the fact is that I have too much anxiety surrounding the well being of anything in my care and wouldn’t feel comfortable doing so without such research. Hell I had to return a pinkie mouse because it was still alive! I can barely cut a mealworm in half for my slings.
To me you come across as the type who is poor at judging character.

I don't make many interpretations in reading words. And I cannot judge one's character by typing. Any one of us here could be like Jesus, or the most prolific serial killer or rapist.

I simply read the words typed- nothing more, nothing less.

In the real world, judging character is easy for someone with my background.

 

[Crazyarachnoguy]

In the real world, judging character is easy for someone with my background.

What is your background?

 

[miyu]

I don't make many interpretations in reading words. And I cannot judge one's character by typing. Any one of us here could be like Jesus, or the most prolific serial killer or rapist.

I simply read the words typed- nothing more, nothing less.

In the real world, judging character is easy for someone with my background.

I understand how hard it can be and I’ve taken every step as to not assume ill intent however your words have come across as malicious. And I don’t care how well you think you are as a judge of character outside of online interactions. Your unwillingness to give people the benefit of the doubt shows that you aren’t a good judge of character at all. When all you can assume is the bad then you only see the bad, you cannot judge in full if you only choose to see half the picture.

 

[viper69]

I understand how hard it can be and I’ve taken every step as to not assume ill intent however your words have come across as malicious. And I don’t care how well you think you are as a judge of character outside of online interactions. Your unwillingness to give people the benefit of the doubt shows that you aren’t a good judge of character at all. When all you can assume is the bad then you only see the bad, you cannot judge in full of you only choose to see half the picture.

Malicious- subjective term

I'm going to make this short, because this thread is about Ts and T husbandry.

I never ever said you were going to make a communal. If you think I did please show me the specific wording where I typed that...guess what-- you won't find it. In FACT, I deal in facts, I wrote the below. Again no proof, that's what I wrote..zip, nada! Case closed.

" I have no proof that you would do a communal, but honestly, you come across as one who will in my experience"

Lastly, it doesn't matter what I think anyway. I'm just someone typing on a computer, just like you.

 

[Crazyarachnoguy]

I understand how hard it can be and I’ve taken every step as to not assume ill intent however your words have come across as malicious. And I don’t care how well you think you are as a judge of character outside of online interactions. Your unwillingness to give people the benefit of the doubt shows that you aren’t a good judge of character at all. When all you can assume is the bad then you only see the bad, you cannot judge in full if you only choose to see half the picture.

Don’t take it personally, his responses are typically very derogatory.

 

[miyu]

I'm going to make this short, because this thread is about Ts and T husbandry.

I never ever said you were going to make a communal. If you think I did please show me the specific wording where I typed that...guess what-- you won't find it. In FACT, I deal in facts, I wrote the below. Again no proof! Case closed.

" I have no proof that you would do a communal, but honestly, you come across as one who will in my experience"

How about here where you @ me directly using “you”? As much as you say it was meant as a general “you” you @ me at the beginning.

@miyu

Here's the deal- you mention you observed quite a few balfouri communals. However, while there are many who claim to have them, what I NEVER EVER see (with one exception so far, I'm sure there's more) are people claiming to have a communal for the entire life cycle of the animals- birth till death. The one breeder I know who did, ended up having balfouri sacmates eat other sacmate/s. It's on the internet. If you need the link let me know.

You want to dump a few together go for it, but know this- it's their LIVES at stake- for which they have ZERO say, NOT yours. If one dies, that's their blood on your hands. Some people don't mind killing of their animals, others do.

Somehow others have stated their cases without coming across as rude, why is it such a feat for you?

Don’t take it personally, his responses are typically very derogatory.

I know this which is why I said what I did. I can’t stand people behaving that way towards anyone. I know I can handle it myself but people that are new to the hobby may choose not to be a part of the community because of rude behavior. Is that what he wants? To drive people away before they can learn to love Tarantulas? Turning people from asking questions to gain a better understanding is unforgivable to me.

 

[viper69]

How about here where you @ me directly using “you”? As much as you say it was meant as a general “you” you @ me at the beginning.



Somehow others have stated their cases without coming across as rude, why is it such a feat for you?

I used the @ symbol to get your attention, that's show the forum works, rather than a quoting a reply. Each mechanism accomplishes the same task- obtaining a user's attention.

I'm direct. Some may find my approach rude, others do not. Life is not a popularity contest, nor should it be.

 

[Polenth]

This is more of a scientific inquiry. I’m wondering about things like long term recognition in T’s and if reintroduction is possible- not because I plan to but because it’s fascinating. It’s a question of memory and instinct sparked by a situation. Would a T be able to instinctually know or “remember” an egg mate? (I know T’s brains aren’t hardwired for long term memory but they can instinctively “remember” where their burrow is and that’s the kind of memory I’m talking about) If so are they more inclined to get along? The fact other “semi-communal” T’s are never okay with non egg mates says that it’s possible they might but then why is the Socotra island blue baboon so different? How long is their memory for other T’s? Is this only for egg mates or can they “remember” other T’s they were raised with?

I’m wanting to know if other people have had similar circumstances and if they’ve made any reintroductions. And if so to tell me how that situation or a similar one went.

My understanding of the blue baboon from research of their habitat is that because of the island they come from they might gather in groups for short periods while they wait out rainstorms. So while they’re inclined to a truce for a short time, long term may be unsustainable. Lack of research however means we haven’t seen whether or not this is the case so why exactly they might be more amenable to living together is unknown.

Socotra island is rife with endemic species that behave differently than anywhere on earth and their tarantulas are just as unique so I’ve become invested in finding out and compiling what others have found during their times doing a communal set up. If there’s been scientific papers or research journals that it seems I missed I’d love to be directed to those too, even if they’re only tangentially related.

I've not seen any studies on whether tarantulas can remember things for periods of years. It's somewhat rare to find studies on that sort of memory for any animal, because it'd mean the study would have to run for years. Also, the majority of spider memory studies I've seen have been on jumping spiders.

Knowing if people have tried this wouldn't help much, as people have also sometimes put strangers together and had it work. It'd need a proper study with controls to show whether they're more likely to tolerate spiders they knew from before and whether there's a time limit on that.

Realistically, I don't see science being too interested in this unless they find communal behaviour in the wild. The political situation means you're not going to see much happening with this for some time.

 

[miyu]

I used the @ symbol to get your attention, that' show the forum works, rather than a quoting a reply. Each mechanism accomplishes the same task- obtaining a user's attention.

I'm direct. Some may find my approach rude, others do not. Life is not a popularity contest, nor should it be.

Life is also a lot easier when you aren’t hated.
It’s also not clear or direct if it comes across as rude and it isn’t your intention.

also I’m the one who created the thread, I get the announcement anyway, @ ing the person who made the thread just seems redundant if that’s the only reason

 

[viper69]

Life is also a lot easier when you aren’t hated.
It’s also not clear if it comes across as rude and it isn’t your intention.

I"m not concerned if people love me or hate me, never have been, never will.

I recognize there is ambiguity for some people re: what I type. Again, I deal with facts, I type things out. If someone finds the facts useful, or likes it etc - good for them. If they don't like it because my words weren't soft enough for them- oh well. One cannot type something and please all.

Have a good night.