Problem with small enclosures

[magicmed]

man i wish i caught this thread earlier.. and now hes gone..

Tony stark went crazy!

 

[Trenor]

Tony stark went crazy!

I think he was more excited then crazy and perhaps a bit too enthusiastic. Maybe he has learned from the good info and will look into a pet he'll enjoy.

 

[Abyss]

Intersting read so far lol

Here is my 2 cents at the risk of getting bashed lol

It does confuse me to no end that we as hobbiests will spend a fortune on T's then use bottle caps an deli cups to house them. One could argue that dropping say $200 on a particular T should mean your financially well off enough to NOT need to toss it in tupperware cause "acrylic is so expensive".

All that being said, here is what I do........
Slings go in 88 cent (yes, these things do not even cost $1) super stacker boxes

Image

• Abyss
• Jun 3, 2016
• 12

Nice new 1.5" versacolor sling just got here an got in its new home.
Great packing job for the...

thats a 1.5" versacolor sling and even for 88 cents it looks a TON better (IMO) then a deli cup and its even more functional (again IMO) and again, it was only 88 cents lol

Once they outgrow those and move on to juvie(ish) size they go in the larger version for $3 each ($3 cant be too expensive for a decent looking and functional enclosure)

From there depending on species they rehouse into their final disply enclosure. Generally i always have a few nice acrylics ready and a few exo terras ready. I cant afford any more really so my T collection will be limited to whats available to me until i can buy another nice disply enclosure at which time i will then add another T to the collection and so on.

Image

• Abyss
• May 20, 2016
• 4

an example of a final display enclosure (this one is for my female P. metallica).

Now, all that said, i swear those cheap little 88 cent "super stacker" boxes look pretty good and are a VERY cheap option and can be stood on end for arboreals as i did or of course left on their bottom for Terestrials. There are plenty of cheap options out there to make beatiful homes for our T's from sling size all the way to adult hood.
Personally, i think if we are gonna invest in our T's we should display them proudly. I try to make all enclures from sling to adult look the best i possibly can. The very first thing i do with any T i get from an expo or online is rehouse it into a great looking enclosure.
agree or not, its how i feel about it.

Disclaimer!!!!!!!
enclosures/hides are part of my joy of this hobby. Attempting to recreate a vibrant/natural look is important to me (its not important to everyone and in alot of cases is not important to the T). Everyone has to use what best for them and there is NOTHING wrong with that!!!!!!
I go on record as saying deli cups make VERY cheap and VERY functional enclosures for slings and i am NOT bashing their use in any way whatsoever.

 

[Vanessa]

There is more to take into consideration than money for the enclosure itself. Many people, me included, don't live in places that might afford the space to house large enclosures. It isn't that we don't have the money for the enclosure - it's that some of us don't have the money for a bigger house.
Plus, those of us who have other animals who might knock over the enclosures have to take into account safety issues. Again, if you are having to secure them then you might not have the luxury of an accident proof 'spider room' and you have to consider less elaborate enclosures.

 

[cold blood]

Expensive enclosures are for the owner, not the t. A $6 sterilite enclosure can be ventilated easily and the set ups can be perfect for ts...not for us, we want to see them, that's the sole reason people spend more...not for the betterment of the t, for visibility for the owner, period.

 

[Abyss]

Expensive enclosures are for the owner, not the t. A $6 sterilite enclosure can be ventilated easily and the set ups can be perfect for ts...not for us, we want to see them, that's the sole reason people spend more...not for the betterment of the t, for visibility for the owner, period.

Agreed fully, thats why i offered a disclaimer
Spot on as usual pal

 

[Poec54]

It got him right in the eyes and he was more than just a couple feet away. And he pin-wheeled back and was lucky that he didn't take out the other enclosures in the process. He was damn lucky and he was rushed to the hospital in a great deal of pain.
Maybe it was 15 feet I read and not 15 metres. Fair enough.
If you want to downplay the severity of something like that happening - so be it. I take a situation like that very seriously. I have been in that warehouse, filled with hundreds of snakes (not all of them venomous) and I sure wouldn't have wanted to be there when it happened and have this snake loose to do further damage.
This guy is no novice, he has had every imaginable snake there is over decades. He had to buy a huge warehouse to keep them in. Even people who have years of experience are not immune to accidents happening. Again, if you want to downplay this type of thing - go ahead. I really don't think that helps anyone. They're dangerous and most people who have them shouldn't.

Not downplaying cobras, hey, I went thru a bite. I take it seriously, more than you; I lived with them for 9 years. About a third of my cobras were spitters, so maybe up to 50 at one point. That's a lot of times to be spat on. Yes, they're dangerous and accidents can happen to anyone. But they're still just snakes, no super powers. Although they can move quickly (I think of them as black racers with fangs), their strikes are much slower than a viper's. Cobras in defensive mode are all about displays and warnings, and may give dry bites unless really provoked. They'd prefer to bluff their way out. A spitting cobra is like a tarantula kicking hairs; they want you to keep your distance; they have no malice and don't want to have to bite.

The most dangerous time with any cobra, by far, is feeding. All bets are off once they smell food when the temps are high; they lunge at anything that moves: reflections on glass, shadows, even their own tails. That's the most likely time to be bitten and when they'll inject the most venom. It's like a shark frenzy. On warm days as I was feeding, some would rub their open mouths back and forth across the glass on the front of their cage. And I'd have to open those cages to feed them. A few would lunge halfway out of their cages as I opened them. I'd have to get the snake back in it's cage, while it was still lunging and biting at me and the stick, then toss the food in and close the cage. So yeah, I know all about how serious it is, much more than you ever will. I have a crippled finger as a daily reminder. Obviously most people should never own venomous snakes, and that's were legislation continues to head. In Florida, besides inspections & micro-chipping, applicants are first required to have 1,000 hours of training to get a permit. That's almost impossible, so the hobby is being phased out her, the result of a few high profile bites and escapes.

Your friend is obviously experienced, but if you don't have goggles or a face shield on when a spitting cobra is out or it's cage is opened, that's a serious blunder, for which he paid the price. Another good idea is to have a snake stick in your hand whenever a venomous cage is opened, whether in your house or someone else's. Cobras can zip out of cages and across floors; with a stick, an experienced person has little to worry about. I remember on a couple episodes, Steve Irwin would be in Africa with sunglasses on, in front of a spitting cobra, and then turn his head sideways when it spat, reducing the protection of the glasses. A highly experienced person making a beginner mistake.

As far as accidents happening to experienced people, I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction: George van Horn in St Cloud and Glen Womble in Melbourne. George was pretty carefree in handling his snakes on the venom line, frequently had his hands in striking range; made me nervous to watch him work. He was bitten 9 times over the years, and was missing parts of a few fingers (the classic sign of a venomous keeper). The last bite was by a 14' male king cobra. The serious injury to his arm, and the huge medical expenses ending up putting him out of business, after decades of venom extraction. Glen on the other hand was very careful and meticulous, and managed to retire from a career of extraction bite-free.

I was in a reptile club back then, that met monthly in Orlando. One guy had a photo album of his snakes. There would be pics of him sitting in his living room chair with a hooded cobra in his lap. Turn the page and there he was in a hospital bed. Then pics of him free-handling a viper. Page after page of this. He was bitten by 8 different snakes (probably more since then). Those are the guys that ruin it for everyone else. At another meeting a couple was giving a slide show talk, the husband was permanently in a wheel chair, with greatly reduced eyesight and hearing; the result of a tiger snake bite. These were people that survived. Some didn't.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Not downplaying cobras, hey, I went thru a bite. I take it seriously, more than you; I lived with them for 9 years. About a third of my cobras were spitters, so maybe up to 50 at one point. That's a lot of times to be spat on. Yes, they're dangerous and accidents can happen to anyone. But they're still just snakes, no super powers. Although they can move quickly (I think of them as black racers with fangs), their strikes are much slower than a viper's. Cobras in defensive mode are all about displays and warnings, and may give dry bites unless really provoked. They'd prefer to bluff their way out. A spitting cobra is like a tarantula kicking hairs; they want you to keep your distance; they have no malice and don't want to have to bite.

The most dangerous time with any cobra, by far, is feeding. All bets are off once they smell food when the temps are high; they lunge at anything that moves: reflections on glass, shadows, even their own tails. That's the most likely time to be bitten and when they'll inject the most venom. It's like a shark frenzy. On warm days as I was feeding, some would rub their open mouths back and forth across the glass on the front of their cage. And I'd have to open those cages to feed them. A few would lunge halfway out of their cages as I opened them. I'd have to get the snake back in it's cage, while it was still lunging and biting at me and the stick, then toss the food in and close the cage. So yeah, I know all about how serious it is, much more than you ever will. I have a crippled finger as a daily reminder. Obviously most people should never own venomous snakes, and that's were legislation continues to head. In Florida, besides inspections & micro-chipping, applicants are first required to have 1,000 hours of training to get a permit. That's almost impossible, so the hobby is being phased out her, the result of a few high profile bites and escapes.

Your friend is obviously experienced, but if you don't have goggles or a face shield on when a spitting cobra is out or it's cage is opened, that's a serious blunder, for which he paid the price. Another good idea is to have a snake stick in your hand whenever a venomous cage is opened, whether in your house or someone else's. Cobras can zip out of cages and across floors; with a stick, an experienced person has little to worry about. I remember on a couple episodes, Steve Irwin would be in Africa with sunglasses on, in front of a spitting cobra, and then turn his head sideways when it spat, reducing the protection of the glasses. A highly experienced person making a beginner mistake.

As far as accidents happening to experienced people, I knew two guys in Florida who did venom extraction: George van Horn in St Cloud and Glen Womble in Melbourne. George was pretty carefree in handling his snakes on the venom line, frequently had his hands in striking range; made me nervous to watch him work. He was bitten 9 times over the years, and was missing parts of a few fingers (the classic sign of a venomous keeper). The last bite was by a 14' male king cobra. The serious injury to his arm, and the huge medical expenses ending up putting him out of business, after decades of venom extraction. Glen on the other hand was very careful and meticulous, and managed to retire from a career of extraction bite-free.

I was in a reptile club back then, that met monthly in Orlando. One guy had a photo album of his snakes. There would be pics of him sitting in his living room chair with a hooded cobra in his lap. Turn the page and there he was in a hospital bed. Then pics of him free-handling a viper. Page after page of this. He was bitten by 8 different snakes (probably more since then). Those are the guys that ruin it for everyone else. At another meeting a couple was giving a slide show talk, the husband was permanently in a wheel chair, with greatly reduced eyesight and hearing; the result of a tiger snake bite. These were people that survived. Some didn't.

In a wheel chair, almost blind, almost deaf. Basically life ruined. Dafaq man, that's not worth if you ask me. I try to understand the passion, but no emotion repay health.

 

[Trenor]

In a wheel chair, almost blind, almost deaf. Basically life ruined. Dafaq man, that's not worth if you ask me. Nothing pay health.

Agreed, I'll just look at some photos of them.. OK.. thanks.

 

[Vanessa]

Michael wasn't interacting with the cobra when it managed to bump open the top of the enclosure, he was dealing with another snake. The clip was faulty and the cobra had a habit of testing the lid constantly. Michael had no idea - he heard the sound of the lid coming off and when he turned to see what it was it was already part way out of the tank and spat at him. He was extremely lucky because the room was full of venomous snakes and he could have knocked another tank over and let loose a rattlesnake. He couldn't even get himself to the hospital - he was lucky enough to have a helper with him (which he always did when he did any maintenance) and they were able to drive him to the hospital.
I never saw him handle any of the venomous snakes. He had plenty of others who he handled that were not venomous. I don't think he was careless, but faulty clamps and accidents happen. He did everything he could to prevent accidents which is a darn sight more than most people do. He liked his life too much to be careless with it. He never used those snakes to prove anything... which is what a lot of people do.
As far as I know he still has them, along with the alligators and god knows what else at this point. I haven't seen him in a long time.
I don't think I would get any joy out of working with creatures as you describe your experience. I don't like adrenaline rushes and my heart pounding in my ears and sweat running into my eyes. I like my interactions with my creatures to be far more relaxed than that.

 

[Venom1080]

In Florida, besides inspections & micro-chipping, applicants are first required to have 1,000 hours of training to get a permit. That's almost impossible, so the hobby is being phased out her, the result of a few high profile bites and escapes.

micro chipping? whys all that training so very hard to get? is there just not a lot of people willing to put in the time, or is there just not enough people willing to train others?

 

[Poec54]

micro chipping? whys all that training so very hard to get? is there just not a lot of people willing to put in the time, or is there just not enough people willing to train others?

I got my permit 30 years ago, when all you had to do was send a diagram of your cages and $5. Inspections were rare. Gradually there were more bites and escapes, which always get a lot of press. The fee went up to $100 annually and required a bond. Then inspections became regular, then microchips. The clincher was 1,000 hours of training.

Problems with training include:
- 1,000 hrs, figure 4 hours a week average, that's 5 years. Who's going to stick with that? That's a lot of time together with a stranger. You have to coordinate both of your schedules, which cuts into your ability to just go places with your wife and family, and your being able to work with your snakes when it's convenient for you. If you can only get together for 2 hours a week, that's 10 years of training. What if you get tired of him, or just don't like him? He could give up halfway thru.

- What if the guy you're training gets bit by one of your snakes while he's training over the years? You could get sued, by him or his survivors. Insurance won't cover you for that. Do you have serum for all your species?

- Obviously some trainees will want to shortcut it, and ask you to sign that you trained them for 1,000 hours if you haven't. If you do that, what if he gets bit later and blames you for falsifying the documentation and failing to train him properly? Again, you could get sued, and lose your snakes.

- Are you supposed to train for free? Are you going to charge someone for cleaning your cages? If you charge them, are you 'in business'? Are there local regulations and zoning codes that would apply to you, the professional (for hire) snake trainer? It gets complicated.

There's little, if any upside to working with and training someone for that long. It's a liability for the trainer.

 

[Vanessa]

The training is an obvious deterrent where all the other rules have failed to rid the hobby of people who shouldn't be there. They know that people won't do it. They aren't trying to work with people - they are trying to prevent them from having the snakes.
And I can't say I blame them. I don't like the idea of living in the same building as someone who thinks it's okay to watch television with a cobra on his lap. I don't want to open my door in the morning to find a rattlesnake outside my door. Yes, the current ban includes my tarantulas, which I don't like, but I am glad that it includes venomous snakes. I keep thinking about the guy who works at my pet shop who recently lost his huge centipede. All I could think of was that I was glad he didn't live in my building.

 

[Roy1982]

Yes you did say you did research:
Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards.
But good to see you're realizing your error in thought. Don't really like the way you're going on another rant about tarantula not being interesting because of small enclosures though, that doesn't make sense at all.
If you want big, and a huge project, go for a fishtank. Are you interested in tarantula at all? Or just building huge enclosures? You could help out a zoo doing that

I'm interested. I just don't know what I want yet. The internet is overwhelmed by people selling them. Some of them have bad raps, for selling near dead animals, and the others are good. I was thinking of getting mine from Underground Reptiles. I've heard about LLL Reptiles, and the famous Backwater Reptiles. Anytime I go to search for something, backwater reptiles is usually the first to show in the results.

I'll probably build a smaller version of my design I modeled in 3DS Max.

What's exciting, is the fact that you can get these in the mail. That's what's exciting. Actually owning them.. Well, with so many people owning them, and so many unboxing videos on YouTube, kinda makes me depressed, and lose interest.

I was thinking of maybe a Desert hairy, and making an enclosure with desert sand in it, etc.

I like Tarantulas too. Making the enclosure is easy as well.

Idk what I'm going to do yet. But if I do anything, I'll be building my enclosure first, then getting the substrate, and then the creature.

 

[Andrea82]

I don't know how you do it, honestly I don't. You seem to have a knack for finding the wrong info...
Backwater reptiles has an extremely bad reputation concerning arachnids. So bad that even here in the Netherlands we know about them.
I don't understand the rest of your post, and that's not because of the language.
Why does watching people unboxing T's make you less interested in keeping them? Why build an enclosure first? It is easier to know what you'll be putting in it, knowing the requirements and applying them, then build the enclosure.
And what is a Desert hairy??

 

[Roy1982]

I believe op gots everyone riled up and left not sure if anything he posted was serious or not or he got mad and left

I'm closer than you think. I'm just reading what everyone is saying. I'm not mad, and I'm not ashamed at what I wrote. I didn't like the fact that people were putting the tarantula's in small cups. That's all. I wanted to build a really nice, and big enclosure for whatever I bought. I went to Lowes the other day, took pictures of the plywood they had, and everything. Acrylic is pretty expensive, so that's why I was going to build most of the enclosure out of plywood, and the front would be a window made out of Polycarbonate, which is 200x stronger than Acrylic.

I totally agree with everyone on here, I honestly didn't do any research, I just know the inside needs to be humid, and warm.

I haven't touched a hammer, a saw, or bought anything yet, so I'm basically just trying to ask myself what I want to do, if anything at all. I took a look at the enclosures from TheContainerStore, the AMAC Boxes, @Tenevanica mentioned, and they're very cheap & affordable.

Yeah, I guess I did try a little too hard to get everyone riled up. Little did I know what you're supposed to keep the things in tiny containers. That was my mistake.

I'm not butthurt from anyone's comments, I'm perfectly fine. "he's crying".. lol,

Seriously.. all joking aside. lol, I honestly didn't know they were supposed to go into small containers, that works out good then.

I watched a video called the Scorpions tale, and I've actually learned quite a bit about Scorpions and Tarantula's in the past week or so. Just no numbers, like exactly how hot the environment needs to be, or how humid exactly it needs to be. But I read from someone's post on here that they like a range of humidity, and a range of tempature. That's good. I guess I don't need to program an Arduino to do all that stuff, and be as strict as I thought I was going to have to be. That's fine. Not that I couldn't handle it if I did need to do that, because I'm freaking 33 years old man. I love to build stuff, and knowing about different materials, and all kinds of crazy shit nobody knows about. I love it. I'm really smart when it comes to that stuff. Honestly. I'm well educated. Seriously. Why did I choose Tony Stark to be my profile image...

Anyways, I'm right here. I haven't gone anywhere. This isn't my first Forum post. I've been into Electronics Forums, Circuitry, Mechanical Engineering forums, Lock picking forums, etc. etc. I usually do post stupid posts, but I mean well. I'll be honest, my post was a little extreame, because that's the way I am.

I've had 1 Tarantula in my life, and kept it for less than a day. Things went south very quickly.

I've never posted in a Arachnid forum before, so that's also part of the way I came in here the way I did.

Again, my post was aimed towards stupid children getting T's and it just seems like there's no stopping anyone from owning even a freaking cobra or whatever, you can just buy it.

That's fine.

I also didn't like the fact that people were putting them in cups, etc.

I didn't know any better, and most of everyone that replied to my thread, corrected me on that. I understand now. But if anyone that reads this post, then I guess if you had further info for me, by all means, go for it. Tell it how it is. I love information, and anything you got to say, let it be negative, or positive, let it fly. I'm right here. I'm a very smart and understanding person.


I didn't mean to offend anyone, if I did, I'm sorry, I didn't know what the hell I was talking about. Still don't. I'm here to learn. That, I guess, is the hidden reason why I'm here.

Since everyone here is experienced, I think instead of me going off to learn about how to care for a tarantula, or scorpion, maybe it would be best if you guys spoke up. Instead of me watching a video on YouTube from other people.

I can't tell if you're joking or not! 80% is WAY too humid for any of the beginner species. Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold. Also, T's will be happy with a much wider range of temps than that. 65 - 85 is more like it. Idk where you're getting this info, but most of its inaccurate...

Understood. 65-85°F is what they like. 80% humidity is way too humid. So it needs to be lower than that.

There's plywood, then there's Maple.

Obviously, acrylic, polycarbonate, or even cheap plastic works better, but not all wood is created equal. Especially if you finish it properly.

Yeah, the AMAC boxes look nice. Seriously.

I did check them out, and pretty affordable. Don't see what type of plastic they're made from, which is something like to know, but I'm going to take a educated guess here and say that the tarantula or scorpion will not be getting out of it.

I hope he doesn't go out and buy a P. metallica, and proceed to house it in a 100 gallon tank.

"What do the people in Arachnoboards know? They just want me to stop owning T's so they can have the hobby all to themselves!"

I'm not trying to be mean to the OP, BTW. I assume he has good intentions, but is just uninformed. There are people though that DO have that mindset, though. I was poking fun at those people, not the OP

Yeah.. What the hell do you guys know. All you guys do is put your T's in cups. By the time I get a chance to get a cup and get my T here, all the T's will be gone.

LMAO !!!!

Not quite.

I understand what everyone is talking about. I actually do read 99% of everyone replies.

I'm having fun reading the posts. I wish people would give me more information, or show me where to go to get some accurate info on the humidity levels and temperatures I need to keep them at, etc. etc.

I haven't read a single mean comment. Trust me, I know if it's mean or not.. or at least I think I do.

Wood enclosures/terrariums can indeed built, people have been making and using them in the herp hobby for many years. You have to make sure the wood is properly sealed with polyurethane or a similar coating prior to use, of course. But said wooden cages are more appropriate for snakes, chameleons, large lizards, etc. I don't think I would use them for any arachnids though.

Thank you. Yes, they can. Especially if it's Maple. Maple is a very tight grain, and has little to no grain. It's a very nice wood. It's the best Lowes sells. It's the most expensive.

I was thinking epoxy resin finish..

Makes the wood look like glass. I've used it before, and used a drill to mix it, and ended up with a crap load of bubbles. Your supposed to hand mix it, slowly. Which I didn't. If I did make most of the enclosure out of maple, I'd have the viewing window with a 1/16" of Polycarbonate. Which is 200x stronger than Acrylic, and just as clear.

Bare wood yes, but sealed and treated wood, not an issue. What do you think we have been using all these years before plastic was around??




I couldn't agree more!

Absolutely.

Oh my god this thread is a roller coaster of emotion. I got sucked in by my sympathy for the manic cage builder and then he went completely spitting cobra bananas. Everything I've ever wanted to say about cage size and aesthetics vs animal well being but was too lazy to express in the first half of the thread. I've built plywood fish tanks before , I used several coats of this white (so no dye toxins) two part epoxy paint they had left over after building the local water park. It's completely safe toxin wise and after several coats, sanded it will hold water and be just like plastic. I made a 125 gallon and ended up spending way more building the damn thing than just buying one, but there you go, manic builder.

I was going to use like a two part epoxy resin for it. It's maple. It's high quality wood.

Something like this..
http://www.lowes.com/pd/Famowood-Gloss-Oil-Based-141-fl-oz-Polyurethane/3366918

Yeah, I'm not getting a cobra, it was a joke. I'm not stupid.

man i wish i caught this thread earlier.. and now hes gone..

Still here. I'll all ears. I would like to hear whatever anyone has to tell me, or explain to me.

Tony stark went crazy!

LMAO !!! Not quite. I'm quite sane, and pretty smart, just like Tony.

I might not come off at first like I'm all there, but I can assure you, I'm very capable of reading all these posts, and soaking up any information anyone has to give me.

I think he was more excited then crazy and perhaps a bit too enthusiastic. Maybe he has learned from the good info and will look into a pet he'll enjoy.

Your absolutely correct. That's exactly what I "was". Still kinda am.. lol. But more under control now. Thanks. Great pictures btw. Nice camera. I have a cheap lumix lx7, I never use flash, always full manual.

Intersting read so far lol

Here is my 2 cents at the risk of getting bashed lol

It does confuse me to no end that we as hobbiests will spend a fortune on T's then use bottle caps an deli cups to house them. One could argue that dropping say $200 on a particular T should mean your financially well off enough to NOT need to toss it in tupperware cause "acrylic is so expensive".

All that being said, here is what I do........
Slings go in 88 cent (yes, these things do not even cost $1) super stacker boxes

Image

• Abyss
• Jun 3, 2016
• 12

Nice new 1.5" versacolor sling just got here an got in its new home.
Great packing job for the...

thats a 1.5" versacolor sling and even for 88 cents it looks a TON better (IMO) then a deli cup and its even more functional (again IMO) and again, it was only 88 cents lol

Once they outgrow those and move on to juvie(ish) size they go in the larger version for $3 each ($3 cant be too expensive for a decent looking and functional enclosure)

From there depending on species they rehouse into their final disply enclosure. Generally i always have a few nice acrylics ready and a few exo terras ready. I cant afford any more really so my T collection will be limited to whats available to me until i can buy another nice disply enclosure at which time i will then add another T to the collection and so on.

Image

• Abyss
• May 20, 2016
• 4

an example of a final display enclosure (this one is for my female P. metallica).

Now, all that said, i swear those cheap little 88 cent "super stacker" boxes look pretty good and are a VERY cheap option and can be stood on end for arboreals as i did or of course left on their bottom for Terestrials. There are plenty of cheap options out there to make beatiful homes for our T's from sling size all the way to adult hood.
Personally, i think if we are gonna invest in our T's we should display them proudly. I try to make all enclures from sling to adult look the best i possibly can. The very first thing i do with any T i get from an expo or online is rehouse it into a great looking enclosure.
agree or not, its how i feel about it.

Disclaimer!!!!!!!
enclosures/hides are part of my joy of this hobby. Attempting to recreate a vibrant/natural look is important to me (its not important to everyone and in alot of cases is not important to the T). Everyone has to use what best for them and there is NOTHING wrong with that!!!!!!
I go on record as saying deli cups make VERY cheap and VERY functional enclosures for slings and i am NOT bashing their use in any way whatsoever.

Totally, I'll consider it. But so far, the best ones I like came from IDK.. but they can be bought at

http://www.containerstore.com/s/gif...oxes/clear-amac-boxes/123d?productId=10003497

Those are cheap.. and they look pretty good. I read the whole post, and I'm going to put them in smaller enclosures, while being able to display them.

My enclosure that has a link to ImgUr, was designed to be made of maple, finished with epoxy resin, and the front window is a very strong polycarbonate window. Top loading.

http://imgur.com/a/z2G7P

It was going to be HUGE. 40" x 20" x 20", that's L, W, H.

But it will never happen. The enclosure and the money spent on the enclosure(s) will be 10x smaller, and using the enclosure idea's I've gotten from the people that posted replies. Including yours.

I would like to make it out of wood, and have a nice display window for the front. I would. I like working with wood, it's cheap, it looks really nice, and it's a really good feeling to build something with your hands. But I will also "maybe" buy some plastic ones. Not deli cups.
When I get the T, regardless of how small, it will go into an appropriate sized enclosure, according to what I've learned on here.

There is more to take into consideration than money for the enclosure itself. Many people, me included, don't live in places that might afford the space to house large enclosures. It isn't that we don't have the money for the enclosure - it's that some of us don't have the money for a bigger house.
Plus, those of us who have other animals who might knock over the enclosures have to take into account safety issues. Again, if you are having to secure them then you might not have the luxury of an accident proof 'spider room' and you have to consider less elaborate enclosures.

To be honest, I don't have a big place either. It's three stories, but the upstairs, which is where my room is, is the whole attic. It's pretty big I guess, not really though.

But it's big enough for me to build what I wanted to build. Which will not be happening. I'll get or build a small enclosures and that's that. Appropriately sized, for the size of T. Only 3x to 4x the diameter of it's legs. Which isn't big, from what I was going to build. 40" x 20" x 20" (L, W, H).

I don't know how you do it, honestly I don't. You seem to have a knack for finding the wrong info...
Backwater reptiles has an extremely bad reputation concerning arachnids. So bad that even here in the Netherlands we know about them.
I don't understand the rest of your post, and that's not because of the language.
Why does watching people unboxing T's make you less interested in keeping them? Why build an enclosure first? It is easier to know what you'll be putting in it, knowing the requirements and applying them, then build the enclosure.
And what is a Desert hairy??

Q.
I don't know how you do it, honestly I don't. You seem to have a knack for finding the wrong info...
Backwater reptiles has an extremely bad reputation concerning arachnids. So bad that even here in the Netherlands we know about them.
A. Yeah, I know that. I don't know where the hell you read that I liked Backwater reptiles. I really don't. Online it's pretty obvious that they are the WORST. So..

Q. Why does watching people unboxing T's make you less interested in keeping them?
A. It doesn't.

Q. "What's a desert hairy?"
A. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=desert+hairy

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I don't like the idea of living in the same building as someone who thinks it's okay to watch television with a cobra on his lap. I don't want to open my door in the morning to find a rattlesnake outside my door.

Brava, Vanessa. It's amazing that a lot of people fail to realize such a logic, common sense thing. I've pointed out something like that, into a discussion involving "Hot" Arachnids once, and received an helluva (cold blood) of bias disguised under the "freedom" etc banner. Just that, seriously, who desire to find a Black Mamba on the loose at 6 in the morning on his/her roof? Not me

I keep thinking about the guy who works at my pet shop who recently lost his huge centipede. All I could think of was that I was glad he didn't live in my building.

<-- EEK! I'm a recent owner of a S.subspinipes, she tried to 'Papillon' (ah ah btw even in the book Scolopendra/s were mentioned if i remember well) herself out of the enclosure some days ago, but failed. Ate a cricket yesterday.

Today checking... and she "disappeared" (i pray she's under those ten inches of substrate, leaves and cork bark ah ah)

By far the most toxic, venom potency talking, invert i had in 25 years of keeping, so defensive that my female 'OBT' is a "rose hair" if compared. Stop, now. That's a sort of "red line" for me

Irony, in Italy, Centipedes (all Centipedes, from native Italian as well like S.cingulata to Asian ones) are perfectly legal to own, while an harmless G.pulchripes (and the other T's) was labeled: "potentially lethal, or able to invalidate with the venom someone for life".

Ah ah ah Italian politicians were class A Trolls in a ante litteram time.


Anyway... may i ask you if you know how that Centipede escaped?

 

[Sceliphron]

I think one of the most beautiful things about this hobby is that it teaches us to view a group of animals from a completely different perspective than we're used to.

We as humans have a very endothermic view of the world where there's energy and brainpower to spare so that we can frolic and explore and experience the world, and it's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that all animals too appreciate bathing in sunlight and open fields. Then in come the tarantulas.

Here are these cold-blooded creatures that can survive in some of the harshest deserts, predator-riddled plains, and rainforests where floodwaters devour everything on the ground twice a year. You have animals that can go months without eating or drinking as the sun beats down on the hundred-something degree ground and have managed to do this for millennia.

I am constantly in awe at the absolute efficiency of these animals. They have no idea when the next meal will arrive, and maybe, just maybe, conserving that one extra calorie will give just enough energy to pounce on that beetle that ambles past the burrow entrance three months later. Hardly any movement is wasted, since their primitive homeostatic systems are at the absolute mercy of the elements. To a tarantula, every second it remains frozen in that weird half-walking pose we see all too often is another second of successfully clinging to the tense, frayed thread of life in the gauntlet of scissors and blades that is the harsh reality of Mother Nature.

These are animals that are nearly blind in many cases and have a very limited way of experiencing the world. For them, a water dish is just an ordinary depression with life-giving water in it. The walls of its tank are just oddly smooth rock faces, maybe, or the trunk of some barkless tree. In the wild, a good majority of them spend their entire lives in tiny, claustrophobic holes in the ground. Years and years without moving a single muscle, cramped inside a burrow and waiting for the right set of vibrations to emanate from the entrance. In captivity with mild temperatures, a pleasantly vacant hide, and an endless supply of food and water, I would cursorily assume that tarantulas live fairly comfortable lives.

A dog, cat, bird, or fish might appreciate space to flex its limbs and an environment that can cognitively stimulate it. The tarantula sits, waits, and outlasts.

 

[Poec54]

- I never saw him handle any of the venomous snakes.
- I don't think I would get any joy out of working with creatures as you describe your experience. I don't like adrenaline rushes and my heart pounding in my ears and sweat running into my eyes. I like my interactions with my creatures to be far more relaxed than that.

- There's different types of handling. Free-handling, bare hands, is crazy with venomous snakes. But you have to 'handle' them with a snake stick (golf club with a hook welded on the end) to move them out of their cage for cleaning/watering. With large, fast snakes like cobras, that means hooking the front part of their body and holding it's tail with the other hand, so you can control it. Otherwise it could come up the stick at you.

To give them shots (Ivermectin for parasites), remove old eye caps, etc, you also have to 'handle' them, but in a specific way: Lifting up and holding the very end of a cobra's tail in one hand, while it's head is on the ground, you can steer their head into a clear plastic fluorescent light protector (the kind they use in warehouses). Once it's head and neck are in there, you grab the snake, holding it at the juncture of the snake and tube. The snake is stuck and temporarily harmless; it can't come out, can't turn around. If you have a hole cut in the side of the tube, you can remove eye caps with tweezers.

I've seen people grab venomous snakes behind their head, and that's highly dangerous. The snake twists and turns trying get to free, and also tries to get a fang in your finger. To me, it's unnecessary and not worth the risk. There are better ways to work with snakes.

Are any of these techniques something the average person can do? No.

- Right, these are not animals the vast majority of people should ever own. California banned venomous reptiles decades ago, and Florida's training requirement has effectively stopped new people from getting the snakes. For the few that are responsible owners, they can't work with them when tired, distracted, or sick. You have to be focused and alert. It's a commitment. But there's a lot of other activities that are dangerous, that you should be focused and alert for. The huge number of people killed in car accidents every year is something we seem to accept. Sometimes what we're most afraid of is the least likely to harm us.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Sometimes what we're most afraid of is the least likely to harm us.

Yeah but there's a thing to say. A Theraphosidae (an high strung OW, you name one from a 'Pokie' to 'OBT') or a badass venom fast as hell Centipede, if both on the loose (let's assume in someone's room) wouldn't exactly chase someone nor they will spend their day seeking for that "task".
They will end probably in some dark corner or what else (i assume, because i've never had an escape so far).

A Black Mamba or a O Hanna (for instance, on the loose as well) on the other hand, would literally hunt down everything that moves.