Problem with small enclosures

[Trenor]

I guess I wanted a really big project, to use my knowledge of building stuff

This hobby can allow you to flex all kinds of building muscles. I enclosure doesn't have to be monolithic in order to use building skills.

This whole Tarantula & Scorpion thing really is aimed towards people that want something simple.

Keeping tarantulas is not hard but does require learning. Anything is simple once you know what to do. There is a wide range of tarantulas out there with different needs, colors, temperament, enclosure requirements etc. It is a challenge learning to care for them all correctly.

I want a challange. Maybe I'll get a Cobra or something.. But I checked some videos on that too, and their enclosures are tiny too.

Again, I feel your going to an extreme without proper understanding. It's the pet not the enclosure that makes the challenge. Also man, deciding if your going to own a cobra takes a lot more consideration then enclosure size.

Finally, let me just say, you should study up on all the pets your interested in and decide on one that's in your skill level and you feel you can care for(keep in mind how long some of these animals live). Then use your building skills to set up a nice home for it. I have reptiles and tarantulas. They all have good enclosures. My Bearded Dragon has custom cut slate tile flooring in his home. I built my ball python's hide with shelving wood and he enclosure layout is very functional and looks great too. My Ts have nice enclosure layouts as well. There is plenty of opportunity to get your build on but please get a pet because you are interested in that pet and want to take care of it. Needing a building project is not a great reason to buy a pet.

 

[Vanessa]

I know a guy who has cobras - spitting cobras as well as dozens of other highly venomous snakes. He spends hundreds of dollars regularly shipping in anti-venom from all over the world and housing it correctly in case of emergency. Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?

 

[Blackout14]

I know a guy who has cobras - spitting cobras as well as dozens of other highly venomous snakes. He spends hundreds of dollars regularly shipping in anti-venom from all over the world and housing it correctly in case of emergency. Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?

Thousands probably.. Walks into er. Yea I got bit by a mamba just wanted some anti venom

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?

I completely agree with you. That's why i don't like too much, Arachnids talking, those that vouche for "hots" like A.robustus or P.nigriventer.
How (ah ah ah) if someone manage to own one, here in Italy, if a bite happens, to have per time the antidote/antivenom shot/s? He/She will die before the sanity system we have, sadly, realize where Australia is and starts bureaucracy :-s

 

[Ryuti]

I just love when people who have no idea what they're talking about berate and judge others who DO know what they're talking about

Even more so when their rant gets debunked

 

[Andrea82]

Yes you did say you did research:
Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards.
But good to see you're realizing your error in thought. Don't really like the way you're going on another rant about tarantula not being interesting because of small enclosures though, that doesn't make sense at all.
If you want big, and a huge project, go for a fishtank. Are you interested in tarantula at all? Or just building huge enclosures? You could help out a zoo doing that

 

[Trenor]

I know a guy who has cobras - spitting cobras as well as dozens of other highly venomous snakes. He spends hundreds of dollars regularly shipping in anti-venom from all over the world and housing it correctly in case of emergency. Some anti-venom isn't as easy as just sticking a needle in your arm - many of them require intravenous setup to administer it.
I wonder how many people have these snakes and no easy access to anti-venom in case of an accident? I guess that would be considered 'thinning the herd'?

I completely agree with you. That's why i don't like too much, Arachnids talking, those that vouche for "hots" like A.robustus or P.nigriventer.
How (ah ah ah) if someone manage to own one, here in Italy, if a bite happens, to have per time the antidote/antivenom shot/s? He/She will die before the sanity system we have, sadly, realize where Australia is and starts bureaucracy :-s

A bit off topic but we recently had a guy in NC get bit by a cobra(They never said what kind of cobra). They flew anti-venom in from a zoo that had some. Even with the treatment he is still not doing good. They may have to amputate the limb and he might never recover. This guy worked with NCs Reptile Rescue and had a large collection of his own. Venomous snakes are dangerous even when you know what your doing. Even with access to anti-venom and good treatment it still might end poorly.

 

[Vanessa]

The guy I know has been spit at by his spitting cobra. The latch on the lid was faulty and the snake was able to push it open. Cobras are glorious creatures and are able to rear up the entire length of their bodies, unlike the bulkier snakes. Spitting cobras can spit something like 15 metres with almost 100% accuracy. They are unbelievable creations of nature.
Luckily he was not alone in the warehouse he keeps all these snakes in and he had someone there to rush him to the hospital. It was even luckier for him that he didn't backpedal into another of his snake enclosures - like the ones with the diamondback rattlesnakes or pit vipers in them.
The more that you are around these dangerous animals, the higher the chances of something going very wrong. That is why we have a ban in Toronto. Too many people own them who are in way over their heads and putting everyone around them at risk.

 

[magicmed]

OK taking care of snakes for near 20 years, not to mention common sense tell me you may need to re evaluate your reasoning for wanting a pet. Wanting to build something or having something cool and flashy is NOT any reason to attempt caretaking of an animal. If you want to build something I suggest making a Live plant terrarium, they can be very rewarding . But please do not go off getting a hot reptile, getting yourself killed, and further ruining the reputation of the animal. I'm not trying to be mean, but what you're talking about is common in the reptile game and it leads to a lot of abandoned animals.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

A bit off topic but we recently had a guy in NC get bit by a cobra(They never said what kind of cobra). They flew anti-venom in from a zoo that had some. Even with the treatment he is still not doing good. They may have to amputate the limb and he might never recover. This guy worked with NCs Reptile Rescue and had a large collection of his own. Venomous snakes are dangerous even when you know what your doing. Even with access to anti-venom and good treatment it still might end poorly.

Yup, man. But in the U.S. Biggest worldwide famous Zoo's, corporations, medical labs etc

Here in Italy a thing like that would degenerate even worst, if possible.

 

[Tenevanica]

Your right.. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the best for my first Tarantula, Scorpion, Praying Mantis, or whatever I choose to get first. Maybe I have some serious regret and pain from my very first Tarantula. I ended up getting rid of it, because my mom hated and was afraid of ALL animals. Seriously.

That was a long time ago. I'm all grown up now, and have a full time job.

I'm not too familiar with how they are supposed to be kept. Regardless if they were breed in captivity, I was mainly looking at where they normally come from. Certainly not a deli cup. So I guess starting tonight, I'm going to study a little harder, and get some more information on what you've told me. Regardless if they do like Deli cups or not, I'm not going to keep mine in a cup. If I find that the size of the container doesn't need to be that large, then I'll build a smaller enclosure, around the size of the deli cup. The enclosure will be the same idea as the images I've shared, but on a small scale.

Thanks so much for everyone's support and replies so far.

Ever tried AMAC boxes? They're what I use for slings, and the look nice.

Small enclosure, no more than 2 times the leg span. Got it. 80% Humid, no more than 72°F Min - 82°F Max Got it. Not going in a deli cup. I'll make a small wood and polycarbonate box for him/her. With that, I can make about 10 enclosures.

But I'm not going to do that. Starting with just 1 or 2 pets. I'm thinking either a Tarantula, or a Scorpion, or maybe both.

You weren't sarcastic, that I could tell. Thanks for the reply.

I can't tell if you're joking or not! 80% is WAY too humid for any of the beginner species. Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold. Also, T's will be happy with a much wider range of temps than that. 65 - 85 is more like it. Idk where you're getting this info, but most of its inaccurate...

 

[Blackout14]

I believe op gots everyone riled up and left not sure if anything he posted was serious or not or he got mad and left

 

[Tenevanica]

I believe op gots everyone riled up and left not sure if anything he posted was serious or not or he got mad and left

I hope he doesn't go out and buy a P. metallica, and proceed to house it in a 100 gallon tank.

"What do the people in Arachnoboards know? They just want me to stop owning T's so they can have the hobby all to themselves!"

I'm not trying to be mean to the OP, BTW. I assume he has good intentions, but is just uninformed. There are people though that DO have that mindset, though. I was poking fun at those people, not the OP

 

[Poec54]

- The guy I know has been spit at by his spitting cobra.
-Spitting cobras can spit something like 15 metres with almost 100% accuracy.
- Luckily he was not alone in the warehouse he keeps all these snakes in and he had someone there to rush him to the hospital.

I had a collection of cobras for 9 years, 150 at my peak. Let me clear up a few things:

- 'Has been spit at by his spitting cobra.' Not a big deal. If you have spitting cobras, you will get venom on you. Some spit more than others, personalities vary. I had some black Naja nigricollis from Togo that always spat whenever I opened their cages. I wore a plastic face shield (painter's/grinder's mask). There would be venom all over the face shield, my bare arms, and the plexiglass front of it's cage. They'd spit 10 times in a matter of minutes and not run out. Most African spitters have triangle-shaped heads, due to the enlarged venom glands. The venom holes are in the front of their fangs, instead of the tips. They usually stay low and aim, like a sniper. But, in your favor is the fact that they don't understand the concept of limbs, and will spit just as readily at your hands and arms. As long as you don't have any open cuts or scratches on you, the venom has no effect on skin. I've been spit on hundreds of times, never had a reaction.

A reptile friend of mine was in the military on a mission in Africa decades ago. Ran across a spitter and it got him in the eyes. Very painful, but no permanent eye damage. The pain will get you to rinse out your eyes, so the venom isn't usually going to be in long. Spitter venom seems to have less potent neurotoxins and more necrotic properties than other cobras.

- 15 meters? 100% accurate? Those are wild exaggerations. Africans can spit 10 to 12 feet or so; it's sprayed out in a fine mist, so there's good coverage (like a shotgun), but they're not going to hit your eyes every time, and like I said, they'll spit at hands and arms too. I've heard it speculated that they evolved this ability to keep hoofed stock at a distance, to avoid being trampled on by herds. It probably works.

Asian cobras aren't as advanced in spitting, and stand and lunge when they spit, so the accuracy is poor; they could hit any part of your body, or miss you entirely. Instead of a mist, their venom comes out in small blobs, and the range is only several feet.

- 'Rushed to the hospital'? How fast do you think venom works? I was bitten during a feeding in my first year with cobras (no bites in the following 8 years). As I was separating two monocles for feeding, one got excited and accidently bit me on the finger. It was as surprised as I was. A drop of blood confirmed I was bitten. I changed clothes, turned on the night lights, and drove myself to the hospital. After 3 hours I started to go downhill, but within seconds of the serum being injected, I could feel it working throughout my body (antivenin is made from horse blood). The serum was flown in by helicopter. As soon as I got out of the hospital, I ordered serum to keep at home, 20 vials of SAIMR polyvalent. The faster you get serum, the less you'll need. People can have an allergic reaction to serum and die in minutes; you never want to administer it outside of a hospital unless you have no choice. Doctors give a tiny amount via IV, and evaluate your reaction.

Most snake bite deaths take place in 12 to 24 hours, with cobras and their relatives, the nerve transmissions for the lungs to breathe are blocked, and most people suffocate. There are snakes where fatalities can happen much faster, black mambas come to mind. They're big snakes with a lot of extremely potent venom, and are known for giving multiple bites in quick succession. People have died from those in an hour or less.

 

[Blackout14]

I hope he doesn't go out and buy a P. metallica, and proceed to house it in a 100 gallon tank.

"What do the people in Arachnoboards know? They just want me to stop owning T's so they can have the hobby all to themselves!"

I'm not trying to be mean to the OP, BTW. I assume he has good intentions, but is just uninformed. There are people though that DO have that mindset, though. I was poking fun at those people, not the OP

Well hopefully he takes the advice that was given. A p metallica would have a lot of space to gain some momentum in a 100 gallon though lol

 

[Vanessa]

- 'Has been spit at by his spitting cobra.' Not a big deal. If you have spitting cobras, you will get venom on you. Some spit more than others, personalities vary. I had some black Naja nigricollis from Togo that always spat whenever I opened their cages. I wore a plastic face shield (painter's/grinder's mask). There would be venom all over the face shield, my bare arms, and the plexiglass front of it's cage. They'd spit 10 times in a matter of minutes and not run out. Most African spitters have triangle-shaped heads, due to the enlarged venom glands. The venom holes are in the front of their fangs, instead of the tips. They usually stay low and aim, like a sniper. But, in your favor is the fact that they don't understand the concept of limbs, and will spit just as readily at your hands and arms. As long as you don't have any open cuts or scratches on you, the venom has no effect on skin. I've been spit on hundreds of times, never had a reaction.

A reptile friend of mine was in the military on a mission in Africa decades ago. Ran across a spitter and it got him in the eyes. Very painful, but no permanent eye damage. The pain will get you to rinse out your eyes, so the venom isn't usually going to be in long. Spitter venom seems to have less potent neurotoxins and more necrotic properties than other cobras.

It got him right in the eyes and he was more than just a couple feet away. And he pin-wheeled back and was lucky that he didn't take out the other enclosures in the process. He was damn lucky and he was rushed to the hospital in a great deal of pain.
Maybe it was 15 feet I read and not 15 metres. Fair enough.
If you want to downplay the severity of something like that happening - so be it. I take a situation like that very seriously. I have been in that warehouse, filled with hundreds of snakes (not all of them venomous) and I sure wouldn't have wanted to be there when it happened and have this snake loose to do further damage.
This guy is no novice, he has had every imaginable snake there is over decades. He had to buy a huge warehouse to keep them in. Even people who have years of experience are not immune to accidents happening. Again, if you want to downplay this type of thing - go ahead. I really don't think that helps anyone. They're dangerous and most people who have them shouldn't.

 

[vespers]

Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold.

Wood enclosures/terrariums can indeed built, people have been making and using them in the herp hobby for many years. You have to make sure the wood is properly sealed with polyurethane or a similar coating prior to use, of course. But said wooden cages are more appropriate for snakes, chameleons, large lizards, etc. I don't think I would use them for any arachnids though.

 

[viper69]

Plywood is NOT a suitable terrarium material. It rots when it gets wet. Not to mention the mold.

Bare wood yes, but sealed and treated wood, not an issue. What do you think we have been using all these years before plastic was around??

15 meters? 100% accurate? Those are wild exaggerations.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[beaker41]

Oh my god this thread is a roller coaster of emotion. I got sucked in by my sympathy for the manic cage builder and then he went completely spitting cobra bananas. Everything I've ever wanted to say about cage size and aesthetics vs animal well being but was too lazy to express in the first half of the thread. I've built plywood fish tanks before , I used several coats of this white (so no dye toxins) two part epoxy paint they had left over after building the local water park. It's completely safe toxin wise and after several coats, sanded it will hold water and be just like plastic. I made a 125 gallon and ended up spending way more building the damn thing than just buying one, but there you go, manic builder.

 

[Venom1080]

man i wish i caught this thread earlier.. and now hes gone..