Problem with small enclosures

[Roy1982]

I know I'm going to sound like a little b**** here, but I'm going to say it anyways.

If you have anything smart or educational to tell me, please feel free to do so.

1. People should have to show proof of their enclosure before buying a T.
2. The enclosure should be large, without clutter. If you're going to decorate, the enclosure should be big enough to allow trees, rocks, etc. While still allowing the T to walk about freely and comfortably.

Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards.

It's unacceptable. Anyone can go and buy these creatures, and do whatever they want with them. There's no paperwork, no permit, or anything.

Yes, I love the fact that there's no paperwork, or permit requirements.

If you don't have the money to either build or buy a decent enclosure, you should NOT own a Tarantula, Scorpion, or small creature.

They're just stupid spiders and scorpions !!!!

They are exoctic living creatures.
They had a much better home before they came to you.
...and I'm not talking about the pet store.

I'm talking about the Rainforest, the desert, etc.

But Acrylic, Polycarbonate, etc. etc. etc. is so expensive, that's why we use Deli cups and small tuperware. It's cheap, it's affordable, and it gives them a place to stay for the rest of their lives.


Here we go..
Grade A, 4' x 8' x 0.5", Maple Plywood isn't expensive. It's $50 a sheet, and you can make a very nice & very large enclosure with it. of you choose to use the whole thing for a single enclosure.

It's the best type of plywood money can buy. As far as I know.

Maple has tight pores, and a very tight grain, it will not leak or rot if built properly. To further proof it, I'd probably line it with a non toxic epoxy coating, or something like that.

Just an idea. This box uses the whole 4' x 8' board. and a part of a $16 piece of very strong 1/6" x 24" x 48" piece of Polycarbonate (LEXAN) from ePlastics.com Been in buisness for 100+ years. The whole piece of polycarbonate isn't used, it's cut to size for the front viewing window. Sure beats a deli cup any day of the week.

Lexan and Polycarbonate are the same thing. Google it.

Polycarbonate makes Acrylic look like crap. It's 200 times stronger, and just as clear. It's also cheaper, softer, and easier to cut than Acrylic.

Can be used for Lizards, Desert Scorpions, and Tarantulas, Praying Mantis, etc.

http://imgur.com/a/z2G7P

Anyone else feel the same way?
Anyone like my design?

More expensive would be replacing the pieces of wood for Polycarbonate (LEXAN), or Acrylic. Could make one out of concrete too, that too would be even cheaper than Acrylic.

Locks can be added to the front sides for added security and tamper proofing against idiots, pets, and naughty children.

 

[cold blood]

plywood enclosure OMG, you're killin' me. It did look nice.

The vast majority of ts in the hobby are actually captive born and bred....its the backbone of the hobby. So, most of these ts didn't come from the rainforest, but rather another hobbyist's t room.

alert

 

[magicmed]

I'm guessing breeders would have a problem buying hundreds on enclosures

 

[Roy1982]

plywood enclosure OMG, you're killin' me. It did look nice.

The vast majority of ts in the hobby are actually captive born and bred....its the backbone of the hobby. So, most of these ts didn't come from the rainforest, but rather another hobbyist's t room.

alert

I'm sorry, but regardless of if they were bread in captivity, they don't deserve to be in such small enclosures. I'm a grown man, 33 years old, and it kinda hurts to see these scary, beutiful creatures put and kept in small containers, and enclosures. It really does. I'm really tough, but I have a conscious, and a heart, and it does hurt to see people putting and or keeping them in small containers. Thanks for the complement. The idea came from Lizard enclosures. It can be very small enclosure, or extremely large enclosure with this idea. With the price so high for Acrylic and clear plastics, it was very difficult to pay 100's of $$$$ for a 100% clear plastic enclosure, and I've checked ePlastics, McMaster-Carr, and other places online, and even my local Lowe's home improvement store, and the material is very expensive, even for those that actually have money to burn, which I do.

 

[Blackout14]

I know I'm going to sound like a little b**** here, but I'm going to say it anyways.

If you have anything smart or educational to tell me, please feel free to do so.

1. People should have to show proof of their enclosure before buying a T.
2. The enclosure should be large, without clutter. If you're going to decorate, the enclosure should be big enough to allow trees, rocks, etc. While still allowing the T to walk about freely and comfortably.

Seriously, in the past several days researching, I've seen so many children and adults unboxing T's and putting them in tupperware cups, deli cups. Not to mention Scorpions, and Lizards.

It's unacceptable. Anyone can go and buy these creatures, and do whatever they want with them. There's no paperwork, no permit, or anything.

Yes, I love the fact that there's no paperwork, or permit requirements. But children and teeny bobbers are buying them, and they still live with their mommy and daddies.

If you don't have the money to either build or buy a decent enclosure, you should NOT own a Tarantula, Scorpion, or small creature.

They're just stupid spiders and scorpions !!!!

They are exoctic living creatures.
They had a much better home before they came to you.
...and I'm not talking about the pet store.

I'm talking about the Rainforest, the desert, etc.

But Acrylic, Polycarbonate, etc. etc. etc. is so expensive, that's why we use Deli cups and small tuperware. It's cheap, it's affordable, and it gives them a place to stay for the rest of their lives.

Then buy something else. You're obviously not working, and you're living on SSI, welfare, or child support, or the allowance money your mommy and daddy gives you.

Save your money, build or buy a decent enclosure, before you purchase your pet.

Grade A, 4' x 8' x 0.5", Maple Plywood isn't expensive. It's $50 a sheet, and you can make a very nice & very large enclosure with it. of you choose to use the whole thing for a single enclosure.

Maple has tight pores, and a very tight grain, it will not leak or rot if built properly. To further proof it, I'd probably line it with a non toxic epoxy coating, or something like that.

Just an idea. This box uses the whole 4' x 8' board. and a part of a $16 piece of very strong 1/6" x 24" x 48" piece of Polycarbonate (LEXAN) from ePlastics.com Been in buisness for 100+ years. The whole piece of polycarbonate isn't used, it's cut to size for the front viewing window. Sure beats a deli cup any day of the week.
Lexan and Polycarbonate are the same thing. Google it.

Can be used for Lizards, Desert Scorpions, and Tarantulas.

http://imgur.com/a/z2G7P

Anyone else feel the same way?
Anyone like my design?

More expensive would be replacing the other pieces of wood for Polycarbonate (LEXAN), or Acrylic.

Locks can be added to the front sides for added security and tamper proofing against idiots and children.

Got a lock picker in the house, get an ASSA lock.

While I greatly admire your respect for animals as we all have here and yes certain things make me angry as well when I see uninformed giving bad advice. But a lot of your points are incorrect. Tarantulas do not need nor want a lot of space for the most part. the reason most people use deli cups especially for slings is because it makes the spiders feel secure. Same as cluttering up an enclosure gives them lots of places to web up and hide. I'm somewere in between a lot of my spiders I plan to put into 5 gallons as they get bigger but if you put a lot into to big of a cage with little to know stuff in their it will really stress them out as well as cause some to stop eating. Most of my slings are in vials still and they use the entire vial as their burrow and feed well and grow well. Like I said I can appreciate your concern and love for the animals but no need to go attacking people saying people dont have jobs becuase of what they keep them in. A 32 ounce deli cup has been a standard for a long while and most likely always will be because they are cheap as well as work extremely well for most.

 

[Roy1982]

While I greatly admire your respect for animals as we all have here and yes certain things make me angry as well when I see uninformed giving bad advice. But a lot of your points are incorrect. Tarantulas do not need nor want a lot of space for the most part. the reason most people use deli cups especially for slings is because it makes the spiders feel secure. Same as cluttering up an enclosure gives them lots of places to web up and hide. I'm somewhere in between a lot of my spiders I plan to put into 5 gallons as they get bigger but if you put a lot into to big of a cage with little to know stuff in there it will really stress them out as well as cause some to stop eating. Most of my slings are in vials still and they use the entire vial as their burrow and feed well and grow well. Like I said I can appreciate your concern and love for the animals but no need to go attacking people saying people don't have jobs because of what they keep them in. A 32 ounce deli cup has been a standard for a long while and most likely always will be because they are cheap as well as work extremely well for most.

Your right.. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the best for my first Tarantula, Scorpion, Praying Mantis, or whatever I choose to get first. Maybe I have some serious regret and pain from my very first Tarantula. I ended up getting rid of it, because my mom hated and was afraid of ALL animals. Seriously.

That was a long time ago. I'm all grown up now, and have a full time job.

I'm not too familiar with how they are supposed to be kept. Regardless if they were breed in captivity, I was mainly looking at where they normally come from. Certainly not a deli cup. So I guess starting tonight, I'm going to study a little harder, and get some more information on what you've told me. Regardless if they do like Deli cups or not, I'm not going to keep mine in a cup. If I find that the size of the container doesn't need to be that large, then I'll build a smaller enclosure, around the size of the deli cup. The enclosure will be the same idea as the images I've shared, but on a small scale.

Thanks so much for everyone's support and replies so far.

 

[Roy1982]

I'm guessing breeders would have a problem buying hundreds on enclosures

I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply. Could you explain please?

 

[magicmed]

I see it kind of like snake racks, I don't like them at all but I realize the need and benefits of them. Cloudy walls and cramped spaces seem to make snakes happy, maybe it's the same with T. And breeders would have a crazy time providing nice display cases to all their breeders and babies. It's just a common trick of the trade it seems. Personally I do prefer a nice display tank. Love my exo-terras for my herps

 

[magicmed]

I'm sorry, I don't understand your reply. Could you explain please?

Well breeders often have a ton of adults for breeding, not to mention the babies, they can't be kept together so things like deli cups are needed, else there would be tons spent on housing the animals in nice display cases

 

[cold blood]

I'm sorry, but regardless of if they were bread in captivity, they don't deserve to be in such small enclosures. I'm a grown man, 33 years old, and it kinda hurts to see these scary, beutiful creatures put and kept in small containers, and enclosures. It really does. I'm really tough, but I have a conscious, and a heart, and it does hurt to see people putting and or keeping them in small containers. Thanks for the complement. The idea came from Lizard enclosures. It can be very small enclosure, or extremely large enclosure with this idea. With the price so high for Acrylic and clear plastics, it was very difficult to pay 100's of $$$$ for a 100% clear plastic enclosure, and I've checked ePlastics, McMaster-Carr, and other places online, and even my local Lowe's home improvement store, and the material is very expensive, even for those that actually have money to burn, which I do.

You're getting upset about something you don't fully understand. Tarantulas, especially terrestrials, do not require large enclosures...they're homebodies that, even in the wild, rarely travel long distances and often live their lives in a single burrow...only mature males actually roam as roaming around is a dangerous proposition for a spider, no matter how big it gets, in fact larger enclosures often make things more difficult for both you and the t in many cases.

Condiment cups and deli cups are one of the overall best vessels for rearing young or small tarantulas, regardless of price.

 

[Blackout14]

Your right.. Maybe I'm wrong. I just want the best for my first Tarantula, Scorpion, Praying Mantis, or whatever I choose to get first. Maybe I have some serious regret and pain from my very first Tarantula. I ended up getting rid of it, because my mom hated and was afraid of ALL animals. Seriously.

That was a long time ago. I'm all grown up now, and have a full time job.

I'm not too familiar with how they are supposed to be kept. Regardless if they were breed in captivity, I was mainly looking at where they normally come from. Certainly not a deli cup. So I guess starting tonight, I'm going to study a little harder, and get some more information on what you've told me. Regardless if they do like Deli cups or not, I'm not going to keep mine in a cup. If I find that the size of the container doesn't need to be that large, then I'll build a smaller enclosure, around the size of the deli cup. The enclosure will be the same idea as the images I've shared, but on a small scale.

Thanks so much for everyone's support and replies so far.

Good on you for doing your reasearch man! Anyone that is that concerned about the animals well being before buying it is ok in my book. Read through this sight in what you think you may want as most care sheets are garbage. Now that said I do not use deli cups because I do not like the way they look I use clear acrylic boxes from the container store.com for anything under about 3 inches they are crystal clear and look great and they have short tall all different sizes the 4 inch by 4 inch is my favorite. Drill a few holes and you are good to go and they stack well. As mine get much past they they will be moving to 5 gallon away round with plexy lids or container store acrylic shoeboxes that are the same floor space just not as high as you don't want terrestrials to get to high as a fall will kill them. Check em out that website has a ton of nice "cages"

And the clear shoe boxes come in different sizes this is the biggest

 

[Haksilence]

I'm sorry, but regardless of if they were bread in captivity, they don't deserve to be in such small enclosures. I'm a grown man, 33 years old, and it kinda hurts to see these scary, beutiful creatures put and kept in small containers, and enclosures. It really does. I'm really tough, but I have a conscious, and a heart, and it does hurt to see people putting and or keeping them in small containers. Thanks for the complement. The idea came from Lizard enclosures. It can be very small enclosure, or extremely large enclosure with this idea. With the price so high for Acrylic and clear plastics, it was very difficult to pay 100's of $$$$ for a 100% clear plastic enclosure, and I've checked ePlastics, McMaster-Carr, and other places online, and even my local Lowe's home improvement store, and the material is very expensive, even for those that actually have money to burn, which I do.

tarantulas dont require large amounts of room.....
3x dls is more than adequate

 

[Solsurfer]

This was a good thread haha . yeah tarantulas dont need a complex vivarium with lots of room to get exercise and run around . its all about preference i guess. You could. Theoretically put a tarantula into a giant enclosure but if theres structure within like plants , bark ,etcetera its going to find a place that it likes and only use a very small portion of the enclosure as a whole. If its a mm i think it might enjoy more space to roam but thats just preference if you want to give it that. They dont need it

Open space like a lizard or snake . tarantulas feel safer in more clustered enclosures because touch to a t is like sight to a human . they see the world through touch for the most part and the more contact points they have the safer they feel . Thats why i try to find a happy medium of space and structure like plastic plants especially with nervous species. They will actually come out to be visible if they feel like theyre in the center of a brushpile , bush , rockpile , or tree. Anyways thats just my take on this lol. Btw sorry about the sarcasm at the beginning

 

[Andrea82]

While I appreciate your concern about the welfare of the animals, I don't like very much your way of barging in here and shout it out. If you would have done your research like you said you did, you could have known already why tarantula prefer smaller enclosures.
Mantids need space, but that doesn't mean all inverts need space.
Breeders who use the proper sized enclosure are succesfull because they recognize the need of the tarantula.
You may not like them in small enclosures. But it is not about what you like, it is about what the tarantula likes that is most important.

 

[Roy1982]

This was a good thread haha . yeah tarantulas dont need a complex vivarium with lots of room to get exercise and run around . its all about preference i guess. You could. Theoretically put a tarantula into a giant enclosure but if theres structure within like plants , bark ,etcetera its going to find a place that it likes and only use a very small portion of the enclosure as a whole. If its a mm i think it might enjoy more space to roam but thats just preference if you want to give it that. They dont need it

Open space like a lizard or snake . tarantulas feel safer in more clustered enclosures because touch to a t is like sight to a human . they see the world through touch for the most part and the more contact points they have the safer they feel . Thats why i try to find a happy medium of space and structure like plastic plants especially with nervous species. They will actually come out to be visible if they feel like theyre in the center of a brushpile , bush , rockpile , or tree. Anyways thats just my take on this lol. Btw sorry about the sarcasm at the beginning

Small enclosure, no more than 2 times the leg span. Got it. 80% Humid, no more than 72°F Min - 82°F Max Got it. Not going in a deli cup. I'll make a small wood and polycarbonate box for him/her. With that, I can make about 10 enclosures.

But I'm not going to do that. Starting with just 1 or 2 pets. I'm thinking either a Tarantula, or a Scorpion, or maybe both.

You weren't sarcastic, that I could tell. Thanks for the reply.

While I appreciate your concern about the welfare of the animals, I don't like very much your way of barging in here and shout it out. If you would have done your research like you said you did, you could have known already why tarantula prefer smaller enclosures.
Mantids need space, but that doesn't mean all inverts need space.
Breeders who use the proper sized enclosure are successful because they recognize the need of the tarantula.
You may not like them in small enclosures. But it is not about what you like, it is about what the tarantula likes that is most important.

http://www.tarantulas.com/care_info.html

Btw, I never mentioned I studied about them.

The post was aimed at the people putting them in small deli cups, etc. But I understand now. Thanks for the reply.

Yeah.. Kinda depressing.. I guess I wanted a really big project, to use my knowledge of building stuff, but it's actually child's play when I realize it, thanks to everyone on here. I did read about the enclosures, and they don't need to be big.

http://www.tarantulas.com/care_info.html

Not to mention the video :

Sorry for being a butt hole. I tend to overthink stuff, and over do stuff.

I need a bigger pet.

This whole Tarantula & Scorpion thing really is aimed towards people that want something simple.

I want a challange. Maybe I'll get a Cobra or something.. But I checked some videos on that too, and their enclosures are tiny too.

Maybe I'll call Jurassic Park, and see if I can get some Velociraptors or something.

A Lot of people get Lizards.. Maybe I'll look at Lizards, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I might get a Scorpion and Tarantula. Seeing how easy it is.. and how tiny the enclosures are.

 

[antinous]

If you have anything smart or educational to tell me, please feel free to do so.

Tarantulas are usually sedentary creatures. Building a burrow and not leaving it for any reason other than a predator coming in and harming them (except for wandering males but that's just to find females). Even in the Amazon and Andes (I stayed there for four months researching), I saw the same individuals in the same area. You can surely give them large spaces, but that doesn't mean they're going to use all of it. (I had this whole thing typed out and then my computer turned off so I'm just going to leave this as it is since it seems like I'm re-iterating what other people have said).

I, by no means, am meaning to sound rude so I apologize if it comes off that way.

 

[Vanessa]

Spiders aren't elephants - they don't travel hundreds of miles in the wild. They're prey as much as predators and they stick to one area, which has proven to be safer for them, and stay there. I get that a lot of people don't house exotics properly, but spiders don't take advantage of the big world when they are in the wild.
I'd save your outrage for zoos and aquariums where they do truly imprison animals in far too small enclosures all in the name of entertainment.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Man, i'm trying to understand your concerns to a certain extent, legit on the paper for those with a little knowledge about T's, but reality differs.

Slings, little ones, for instance... doesn't need at all a "big" enclosure, notably the opposite, the little the better. To house a so tiny Theraphosidae into a big enclosure "with everything inside" it's just like to put a person into somewhere he/she doesn't know, never was before, without the chance to use his/her eyes.

A lot of enthusiasts disagree with that, they say: "if the T's catch the food, no problem" but me not. That's not only that. You work better in little, with slings.

I can't stand to view not even 2 cm G.rosea or what, housed in medium KK or else. Are we joking?

I do agree that with juvenile & adults, according to their needs, a bit of "space" is needed. With that said, i wouldn't house not even a genus Theraphosa one into a giant cage like a 10 gallon one.

What's important is "height" for arboreals, "height" for obligate burrowers (so you can add an helluva -- cold blood -- of substrate) for terrestrials, a "normal" decent set up enclosure it's simply perfect.

 

[Poec54]

1. People should have to show proof of their enclosure before buying a T.

2. The enclosure should be large, without clutter. If you're going to decorate, the enclosure should be big enough to allow trees, rocks, etc. While still allowing the T to walk about freely and comfortably.

We definitely need more regulations and inspections, and teams of mindless bureaucrats telling us what to do.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

We definitely need more regulations and inspections, and teams of mindless bureaucrats telling us what to do.

True, Poec54.

It's amazing that a lot of people worldwide continue to fail to realize this. Those inspections and regulations would do nothing but destroying the Theraphosidae hobby as we used, and loved, to know.

What happened in Italy, just after the 2003 (insane) Arachnid total (native spiders/scorpions included, so go figure) Ban?

The system banned those, but had to deal, of course, with those (so me as well) that had until the other day lots of Arachnids at home.

So happened that some naive keeper/s (i wasn't one of those, i've mantained a wise, low profile) called, trough local authorities (so vet, the wild life department etc add those type of folks payed by the state "living" of that, related to animals) those folks for have an inspection & check on their inverts.

Those, needless to say, absolutely uneducated on the Arachnids subject (as you know, aren't exactly S.Nunn or your friend Sam Marshall those people) obligated those keepers to build (or buy) a second! "sort of enclosure", made by those type of grate/iron vents... don't know now how to say in proper English, sorry... to put as a sort of last resort if... the T's escapes from the KK, or glass cages, or else. Hope i gave you the idea. A sort of "Matrioska" enclosure, ah ah.

This, combined with the fines, forced a lot of quite skilled breeders to stop. I ended my local, neighbour regions "invertsonals" & amateur breeding projects (breed something now illegal you can't trade/sell? Madness, IMO).

Today the situation seems a bit better, tough (we had recent Italian breedings without issues) still...