Genus Poecilotheria

[Steve Nunn]

The carapace ist over 30mm long.

Hi Kris,
Absolutely beautiful!! My favourite of all the pokies!!! I can't have live specimens here, but I do have exuvia from these species:
P.pederseni, P.rufilata, P.ornata, P.striata, P.smithi, P.metallica, P.formosa, P.fasciata, P.regalis and in my opinion the most interesting by far is P.rufilata, just a stunning species!!! There is just something about the contrast in colour of this species that is a pure knockout! Besides I find the bright flash of blue ventrally far more interesting then the total cover seen in P.metallica.

Steve

 

[phormingochilus]

I do believe the synonymisation of P. bara with P. subfusca to be correct. The size differences are allegedly due to differences in development of the different populations due to different habitats, P. subfusca being a highland (montane) species from areas receiving ground frost every now and then. P. subfusca (bara) on the other hand is found in the lowland, and reach massive sizes, but size aside both populations are identical morphologically speaking, thus the synonymisation. However the size differences between the two forms are consistent in captivity, and thus not due to temperature, but genetics, so definetly two forms of one species, which is not unheard of in theraphosids after all ;-) also P. subfusca has a jet black variety, reminding me of Psalmopoeus irminia, with flame streaks on metatarsus and white abdominal bars instead of the orange found in P. irminia but with additional white faint bars and dots at the joints and a diminutive foveal star pattern. Showed Boris Striffler one of these (alcohol specimen) and he had to reconsider what was a dark subfusca LOL ;-)

Regards
Søren

Hi Justin,
Yours may be that small, and indeed most in captivity may be that size, but P.subfusca can attain a massive size, as evidenced by those types found in the museums. For example, unless the synonymy of P.bara is incorrect (now considered to be P.subfusca), it is a true monster in the world of pokies.

Steve

 

[Steve Nunn]

However the size differences between the two forms are consistent in captivity, and thus not due to temperature, but genetics, so definetly two forms of one species, which is not unheard of in theraphosids after all ;-)

Hi Søren,
I had heard something along those lines. I would definately agree the difference in size may be genetic, however I am interested in how long the captive specimens of both forms have actually been in captivity. This gene may be latent, found in most spiders, probably the mechanism in this situation. Anyway there is some hypothesis regarding how quickly this latent gene may kick into action. It is also quite likely, or probable anyway that the geographical/topographical position of the populations would perhaps affect this gene dramatically. It is also quite possible that given the conditions the captive spiders are kept in (fairly universal), that they may revert back to the one size within several generations, overnight almost! Indeed, in this regard, if one were to presume a new species based on size alone, there would be enormous uproar! Even a suggestion of a "species group" would be a tough call

also P. subfusca has a jet black variety, reminding me of Psalmopoeus irminia, with flame streaks on metatarsus and white abdominal bars instead of the orange found in P. irminia but with additional white faint bars and dots at the joints and a diminutive foveal star pattern. Showed Boris Striffler one of these (alcohol specimen) and he had to reconsider what was a dark subfusca LOL ;-)

Very cool Can I ask, geographically speaking, is it logical to consider this the same species as P.subfusca (please remember, only from a geographical aspect, I'm sure the morphology would be similar)?

Thanks,
Steve
Regards
Søren[/QUOTE]

 

[Vys]

"I'm so fat I can't actually sit wholly in 'poec'-position, because the only aerodynamic blessing I have right now goes very vertically"

(Taken at night, so quality is rather mediocre)

 

[phormingochilus]

Hi Søren,
I had heard something along those lines. I would definately agree the difference in size may be genetic, however I am interested in how long the captive specimens of both forms have actually been in captivity. This gene may be latent, found in most spiders, probably the mechanism in this situation.

Both groups have been in the hobby for a long while, as these where some of the first species imported in the hobby together with P. fasciata and P. smithi. Both P. smithi and P. subfusca/bara went periferior in the hobby due to lack of colour (no yellow legs ...) and to my knowledge P. subfusca and P. bara was interbred (and P. smithi cross bred with P. fasciata - which might in part explain the breeding difficulties of this species today), so the question is outruled by present hobby conditions. Thus the hobby population might not tell us much about the natural grouping of these two groups. There migh be some clean adults of both subfusca forms around as well as some batches, but with bara and subfusca synonymised subfusca is subfusca, but not neccesarily the same subfusca as in nature ... oh how I love pet trade speculations ;-) pet specimens doesn't reflect nature - it's just as easy as that. Study groups under strict control and record is another story all together.

Very cool Can I ask, geographically speaking, is it logical to consider this the same species as P.subfusca (please remember, only from a geographical aspect, I'm sure the morphology would be similar)?

Being sympatric, you might even wonder if it's a natural variation within batches or two seperate groups ... My guess is the first ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[Robert Seliger]

Poecilotheria fasciata - eggs with legs

Poecilotheria regalis - eggs with legs

Regards.
Robert

 

[Steve Nunn]

Thus the hobby population might not tell us much about the natural grouping of these two groups.

LOL, the hobby tells us NOTHING about natural conditions, groups, etc Søren,but yes, you know that. Part of my point in the first post was that conditions and observations noted in hobby populations are in reality useless, no reflection on wild populations at all, almost immediately. You said the first specimens have been here for a while, obviously most of the "seperated" forms in this hobby are either very, VERY rare, or new imports have arrived

Either way, I'm still not sure how long this period may be??? 20yrs, 30yrs??? 10yrs??? How many generations of this species could have been produced??

Being sympatric, you might even wonder if it's a natural variation within batches or two seperate groups ... My guess is the first ;-)

Very cool, thanks! Why do you think just natural variation?? Because of the morphology??

Steve

 

[phormingochilus]

Either way, I'm still not sure how long this period may be??? 20yrs, 30yrs??? 10yrs??? How many generations of this species could have been produced??

I'd say in the range of 30 years with the occasional fresh blood introduced on a few rare occasions. But the first imports in the eighties were to my knowledge quite massive - Sri Lanka not having the strict export laws in those days.. However not much of that stock has survived to my knowledge, though quite a lot has been bred over the years. Not a chance to map the crossing, when and where of the two sub groups though, not with the vast hobby and activity of european hobbyists ;-)

Very cool, thanks! Why do you think just natural variation?? Because of the morphology??
Steve

It's basically just a dark subfusca, just as you find the whole range of very pale specimens and very dark specimens, in P. formosa, P. ornata, P. fasciata, P. pederseni, P. regalis, P. metallica etc. etc. but still a very neat variety though, and just one of those additional levels of fascination to add to these beautiful spiders ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[Steve Nunn]

I'd say in the range of 30 years with the occasional fresh blood introduced on a few rare occasions.

Yeah, not very long at all, and fresh blood just jumbles it up even more, either way you guys will end up with probably one size.

It's basically just a dark subfusca, just as you find the whole range of very pale specimens and very dark specimens, in P. formosa, P. ornata, P. fasciata, P. pederseni, P. regalis, P. metallica etc. etc.

Ahh, I see, thanks

Steve

 

[spiderPeter]

Poecilotheria subfusca

Hello...

I made some new pictures of Poecilotheria subfusca, so I am posting them to share with others Wanted to try the way how Raqua is doing his pictures Hope you like them....

First 3 pcs are of premolt big juvenile/subadult male, others of postmolt male at the same size... Both are different animals....

Btw, both spiders were very calm and cooperated very good with me....

Best regards,
Peter

 

[spiderPeter]

Next ones...

 

[smokejuan]

Nice pics. Did not know they were so cool colored. May have to look into finding one :}

 

[Michael Jacobi]

Hi
Please help me.How big is P. subfusca?? I read it is 25-27 cm long. I heard that: The subfusca is the smallest Poecilotheria. What is the true ???

thank

As readers of my interview with Andrew Smith in the current issue of ARACHNOCULTURE will learn, the largest "Poec" he has ever examined was the P. bara specimen that Steve mentioned, which is Poecilotheria subfusca. However, he also suggests that this northern specimen might possibly be from a population that is now extinct. My adult female P. subfusca are generally about the size of adult female P. regalis. Most "Poecs" are about that size and I don't think there is a clear smallest.

Cheers,

Michael

 

[Raqua]

I made some new pictures of Poecilotheria subfusca, so I am posting them to share with others Wanted to try the way how Raqua is doing his pictures Hope you like them....

Wait until mine gets that size .... I'll show you how to do that ....
Anyway ... great pix ..

Michael Jacobi : Did you got that pic I sent you ???

 

[Sean]

Hi,

please check it, I would like to know, since all the males I have had so far (not many) have had more blue (also on the femura of the hind legs) than the females! Would like to know if this is some kind of rule or mere a coincidence that my males had more blue.

all the best,
Martin

Is this true with the smaller slings? I have one thats about 2 1/4 inches, with the blue on the hind legs(right after its molt) or can this be female too. Sorry dont have pics, but is that a fool proof way to sex a rufilata?

 

[G_Wright]

Adult female

 

[Steve Nunn]

Adult female

I give you credit Mr Wright, that is the best photo I have ever seen of this species, very nice photo, thankyou for posting it That is a very nice shot, you have captured this spider on film VERY well....

 

[Lopez]

I give you credit Mr Wright, that is the best photo I have ever seen of this species, very nice photo, thankyou for posting it That is a very nice shot, you have captured this spider on film VERY well....

It looks even better in the flesh Steve, and so it should do for the pricetag ;P

 

[G_Wright]

It looks even better in the flesh Steve, and so it should do for the pricetag ;P

yes it was pricey but worth it. Well I like it anyway

 

[G_Wright]

I give you credit Mr Wright, that is the best photo I have ever seen of this species, very nice photo, thankyou for posting it That is a very nice shot, you have captured this spider on film VERY well....

yes she came out very well and I will also state that that pic is unaltered thast they way it is straight off the camera.

I wasn't expecting it to come out so well untill I put them onto my hard dirve to get a good luck. I guess the lighting was good that day :}

Guy is putting this pic onto a T shirt for me

imo I think subfusca is nice then P met