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Poec bites - must read!
- Thread starter skadiwolf
- Start date
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- Mar 1, 2003
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Hey skadiwolf
Hey yeah isn't that scary stuff?
I mean pokies are evil little beautiful creatures. I had a regalis but it died
and I don't plan on buying another pokie for well a while. I have enough in my hands with new world pokies (psalmopoeus species) well any ways have a nice day
geo
Hey yeah isn't that scary stuff?
I mean pokies are evil little beautiful creatures. I had a regalis but it died
and I don't plan on buying another pokie for well a while. I have enough in my hands with new world pokies (psalmopoeus species) well any ways have a nice daygeo
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- Aug 19, 2002
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once again...
Sorry but I still fail to see the seriousness of the venom. Yes there was pain and yes there was cramping but aside from that all is well. And on the pain aspect of it what some interpet to be bad enough to pass out from or be unbearable to others may not be so bad. The problem with someone describing pain is that it is up to the interpetation of the individual which in many cases is blown out of proportion. Take for instance the skateboarding idiots from real tv they bust out some teeth or tear a limb out of socket and some of them do the go fetal and cry move where some bounce right back up.
Again I am not saying that poke bites are going to be pleasant but for everyone to get scared senseless about it is no better than the general publics irrational fear of spiders in the 1st place.
Sure the guy in the report felt bad but he is after all just fine now and for them to highly recommend that no one get a poke is simply ludicrous. It is nothing more than letting ones fear cause them to act in an over cautious manner.
Phil
Sorry but I still fail to see the seriousness of the venom. Yes there was pain and yes there was cramping but aside from that all is well. And on the pain aspect of it what some interpet to be bad enough to pass out from or be unbearable to others may not be so bad. The problem with someone describing pain is that it is up to the interpetation of the individual which in many cases is blown out of proportion. Take for instance the skateboarding idiots from real tv they bust out some teeth or tear a limb out of socket and some of them do the go fetal and cry move where some bounce right back up.
Again I am not saying that poke bites are going to be pleasant but for everyone to get scared senseless about it is no better than the general publics irrational fear of spiders in the 1st place.
Sure the guy in the report felt bad but he is after all just fine now and for them to highly recommend that no one get a poke is simply ludicrous. It is nothing more than letting ones fear cause them to act in an over cautious manner.
Phil
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well, i'm not supporting his views necessarily but i do think it's important to share venom reactions of different people from different Ts.
increase knowledge you know?
heck, if you want a Poec, i say go for it everyone, just be aware of what you're getting into.
increase knowledge you know?
heck, if you want a Poec, i say go for it everyone, just be aware of what you're getting into.
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- Aug 25, 2002
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- 161
here we go again
here in the bite reports I put in what happened to me when I was bitten by a juvenile P ornata I did forget to add one more thing everyone do react to the venom differently, as for me it felt hot, bite area !@#$%^ hurt, at first the nauseation became worst to where it lasted for 2 weeks, occasionally throwing up I figure I was lucky it was a juvie instead of an adult, an adult would have messed me up.
You look at this way some ppl are allergic to bee stings so bee stings can kill them, you get attacked by fireants onetime you can become allergic to them. So you can in a way say samething can go for any T. But onething for sure I love the pokes best thing that ever happened in this hobby was when the pokes came
[]D eace
here in the bite reports I put in what happened to me when I was bitten by a juvenile P ornata I did forget to add one more thing everyone do react to the venom differently, as for me it felt hot, bite area !@#$%^ hurt, at first the nauseation became worst to where it lasted for 2 weeks, occasionally throwing up I figure I was lucky it was a juvie instead of an adult, an adult would have messed me up.
You look at this way some ppl are allergic to bee stings so bee stings can kill them, you get attacked by fireants onetime you can become allergic to them. So you can in a way say samething can go for any T. But onething for sure I love the pokes best thing that ever happened in this hobby was when the pokes came
[]D eace
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.
Several (most?) Poeciotheria bite reports are from experienced people – which got lazy with this genus.
It happend during handling or underestimateing the genus. For example I know one, who is keeping tarantulas since about 12 - 15 years and also keeping Poecilotheria ssp. since several year. He was cleaning the cage of a P. regalis and relied to his experience that it is not an aggressive species but very shy who perfers to flee. But this time during he worked in the cage, she suddenly rushed out of her retreat and bit him in his hand! => NEVER underestimate a Poecilotheria!
After hearing this story, I started to be more carefull and stopped working with my bare hands in Poecilotheria tanks (which I did in the past because I am also of the opinion that they are not aggressive but shy and skittish) and prefer a pair of long tweezers.
And another "nice" story:
A friend of mine is at the moment writing an article about his experiences with a Poecilotheria bite: His neighbour, also a tarantula keeper, got bitten by an adulte male of Poecilotheria fasciata. At the beginning he got very euphoric like under drugs, but suddenly he turned in the opposite and collapsed. The emergency physician which they called wasn't able to get him back in a approachable/addressable condition and took him to hospital to the station for intensive care! ...good luck he recovered and survived!
The article they are writing will include the information from the reports of the emergency physician and the hospital.
The victim was a full grown man – "have fun" when an immature human (= kid) get's bitten!
Maybe there are hundreds killed by bee stings or "accidents" with dogs, but a person killed by a tarantula bite would get MUCH MORE attention and the whole hobby would get a lot of (more) bad reputation! Is it worth that?
I think one shouldn't demonise the whole genus but also not underestimate it! The truth is somewhere between!
all the best,
Martin
Several (most?) Poeciotheria bite reports are from experienced people – which got lazy with this genus.
It happend during handling or underestimateing the genus. For example I know one, who is keeping tarantulas since about 12 - 15 years and also keeping Poecilotheria ssp. since several year. He was cleaning the cage of a P. regalis and relied to his experience that it is not an aggressive species but very shy who perfers to flee. But this time during he worked in the cage, she suddenly rushed out of her retreat and bit him in his hand! => NEVER underestimate a Poecilotheria!
After hearing this story, I started to be more carefull and stopped working with my bare hands in Poecilotheria tanks (which I did in the past because I am also of the opinion that they are not aggressive but shy and skittish) and prefer a pair of long tweezers.
And another "nice" story:
A friend of mine is at the moment writing an article about his experiences with a Poecilotheria bite: His neighbour, also a tarantula keeper, got bitten by an adulte male of Poecilotheria fasciata. At the beginning he got very euphoric like under drugs, but suddenly he turned in the opposite and collapsed. The emergency physician which they called wasn't able to get him back in a approachable/addressable condition and took him to hospital to the station for intensive care! ...good luck he recovered and survived!
The article they are writing will include the information from the reports of the emergency physician and the hospital.
The victim was a full grown man – "have fun" when an immature human (= kid) get's bitten!
Maybe there are hundreds killed by bee stings or "accidents" with dogs, but a person killed by a tarantula bite would get MUCH MORE attention and the whole hobby would get a lot of (more) bad reputation! Is it worth that?
I think one shouldn't demonise the whole genus but also not underestimate it! The truth is somewhere between!
all the best,
Martin
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- Apr 11, 2003
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- 722
Pokies not for everyone
Are pokies fast? YES
Do pokies bite? YES
Do pokies have a venom that is medically significant? YES
Do pokies make good pets?
They are clearly not for everyone. If you can keep it contained as a display animal without it escaping, no problem. However, they do get away from some experienced keepers, bite them, and the venom has been severe and in some cases surprisingly long term. Many feel the risk is too great for the reward, and that should be respected.
The message that children and inexperienced adults shouldn't keep them is a wise message. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way, and learning can sometimes be painful.
The negative potential to the hobby in bad press is also significant. Keeping a pokie contained safely is important to prevent hysteria in the media. As you all know the public will link keeping pokies with keeping rose hairs in a flash, and its totally apples and oranges, but few will see it that way.
Keeping pokies needs to be viewed as having greater responsibility for the safety of yourself, others, and the health of the hobby.
Just my opinion, peace and love.
Are pokies fast? YES
Do pokies bite? YES
Do pokies have a venom that is medically significant? YES
Do pokies make good pets?
They are clearly not for everyone. If you can keep it contained as a display animal without it escaping, no problem. However, they do get away from some experienced keepers, bite them, and the venom has been severe and in some cases surprisingly long term. Many feel the risk is too great for the reward, and that should be respected.
The message that children and inexperienced adults shouldn't keep them is a wise message. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way, and learning can sometimes be painful.
The negative potential to the hobby in bad press is also significant. Keeping a pokie contained safely is important to prevent hysteria in the media. As you all know the public will link keeping pokies with keeping rose hairs in a flash, and its totally apples and oranges, but few will see it that way.
Keeping pokies needs to be viewed as having greater responsibility for the safety of yourself, others, and the health of the hobby.
Just my opinion, peace and love.
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- May 21, 2003
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- 157
Just frome what I've read on pokey's. I wonder in online dealers of T's can make sure someone is ,1 old enough over 18 ,2 really knows what there getting into. This will probably lead to people getting mad but, Maybe this and some of the other "hot" T's should only be sold in person. Maybe i'm crazy but that just spells trouble for the hobby to me. Maybe they do have proof before they sale.I don't know I'm just makeing a suggestion if they don't.You may lose money off the net but a bad enough attack could lead to many lost sales.
Last edited:
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- Apr 16, 2003
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Who should be responsible??
Bringing up the legalities of the whole subject, you may have a hard time getting a dealer to put himself on the line to make sure someone is old enough or has enough experience to own a pokie. When introducing that kind of solution, you are asking for the dealer or the person selling the T to take the liability for someone else's mistake. With owning ANY animal comes a responsibility and I believe it comes down to the individual to take that responsibility. With most creatures comes some kind of risk. I have a doberman, (biggest baby in the world), but if she bit someone should it be the breeder that is responsible for this because she did not make sure I could handle this type of dog?
Sorry I started to rant. Just my opinion as twisted as it may be.
Bringing up the legalities of the whole subject, you may have a hard time getting a dealer to put himself on the line to make sure someone is old enough or has enough experience to own a pokie. When introducing that kind of solution, you are asking for the dealer or the person selling the T to take the liability for someone else's mistake. With owning ANY animal comes a responsibility and I believe it comes down to the individual to take that responsibility. With most creatures comes some kind of risk. I have a doberman, (biggest baby in the world), but if she bit someone should it be the breeder that is responsible for this because she did not make sure I could handle this type of dog?
Sorry I started to rant.
Just my opinion as twisted as it may be.
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- May 21, 2003
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I don't think you read me clearly. And your saying the dealer has no resposibility,I disagree ! I'm about to breed my pitbull . And if some kid wants to buy one and, he is pulling on the ears and tails and, his parents aren't paying attention talking on the cell phone telling him just get what he wants and, come on ! Sorry I'm going to refuse sell thats my right , I don't wanna see 10 year old kid gets mauled by one of those evil pit bulls on the news. I have the responsibility to the puppies other breeders and my love for the breed. On the other hand its not full proof but some 16 year old could buy one and get home and beat the crap out it ,But seemed like such a good guy from what I saw. Hey but at least I made the effort. Most dealers post over 18 only on there web sites.So I don't see how you think I'm out on a limb here.I just merely wonder how they verify it. Wich - a credit card is very hard online. Thats why I said maybe it should be some way to check at least age for the "hot" breeds. Hell wal mart has refused sale to me a couple of times for getting rowdy with my buddy's there. So don't say it's illegal to refuse sale......Actually I was hopeing a dealer would chime in and tell us how they do it.I'm not sure they don't check. Thats why above says suggestion if they don't.
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Interesting story about the P. fasciata Martin.
I actually held my girlfriends Poecilotheria fasciata last week - the tarantula had out grown it's jar, and was quite difficult to extract, I had nothing to offer it to walk on but my hand. She seemed quite calm and docile, not at all like I expected. I got some pictures before letting her walk into the new tank. All in all she was on my hands for several minutes with no sign of discomfort from the spider.
I think the main problem (as Martin states) is when you "surprise" the spider without warning, brushing past it when cleaning the tank for instance.
I actually held my girlfriends Poecilotheria fasciata last week - the tarantula had out grown it's jar, and was quite difficult to extract, I had nothing to offer it to walk on but my hand. She seemed quite calm and docile, not at all like I expected. I got some pictures before letting her walk into the new tank. All in all she was on my hands for several minutes with no sign of discomfort from the spider.
I think the main problem (as Martin states) is when you "surprise" the spider without warning, brushing past it when cleaning the tank for instance.
I don't think I'd ever get one of the little devils but on another note, someone has quoted this before, but here it goes again:
"After two
weeks of still having symptoms from the bite and the feeling that I was
melting away and now with this pain in my shoulder I decided to go to the
doctor."
"After two
weeks of still having symptoms from the bite and the feeling that I was
melting away and now with this pain in my shoulder I decided to go to the
doctor."
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I don't believe I misread you. Never once did I say that the dealer had no responsibility. What I was saying is that you cannot make a dealer solely responsible for the actions of others. Everyone has a right to refuse sale of an item to anyone, but when you try to make the dealer responsible for actions that were beyond their control is when you get into sticky situations. Its all about protecting the rights of everyone. I don't believe I ever said it was illegal to refuse sale. I did not try to ruffle your feathers, just giving aspects of the law and the liabilities.
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actually I got a goose skin and a lump in my throat when I red this whole story and I don't know if I would have been involved if I would have stayed as cool as the wife of the biting victim and my friend the neighbour. It happend deep in the night, it was in the winter time, there was black ice on the streets so that the emergency physician came very late (and later they also could only drive very slow back to the hospital) and while the wife and my friend have been waiting for the emergency physician, the biting victim was laying unconscious on the floor, throwing his head from one side to the other and each time he did that he was groaning...
...an article worth reading!
BTW, he just wanted to take the male out of the tank of the female...
all the best,
Martin
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- Feb 14, 2003
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i'm 15 and ordering a P. fasciata from Paul at exopets.com
and I'm fully aware of the danger involved in taking care of a pokie. The reason I want one is because I think of it as the risk is worth the beauty of the tarantula.
My only question is, would that guy that was bitten by the pokie have been better if he had contacted the doctor sooner, rather than waiting until he got sharp pains in other areas of his body?
Risto
and I'm fully aware of the danger involved in taking care of a pokie. The reason I want one is because I think of it as the risk is worth the beauty of the tarantula.
My only question is, would that guy that was bitten by the pokie have been better if he had contacted the doctor sooner, rather than waiting until he got sharp pains in other areas of his body?
Risto
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Hehehe, you mean goose bumps? Close!
Only joking, you're English is far superior to my German - "Wie gehts" is about my limit these days, I really should re-learn the language.
I'd be very interested to read the article when it is complete.
Leon
Re: Pokies not for everyone
Pain and discomfort yes.
The reason for newbies to wait with pokes are simply cos they can be a handful to handle (NOTE: handle as in with sticks aso). Fast and darts out and up on your hand in a blink of an eye.
/Lelle
No they are not. Venom of medical importance are venom that send you to hospital for emergency treatment and perhaps hook you up to a life support machine. That threatens your life. Poke venom do not.
Pain and discomfort yes.
The reason for newbies to wait with pokes are simply cos they can be a handful to handle (NOTE: handle as in with sticks aso). Fast and darts out and up on your hand in a blink of an eye.
/Lelle
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Hi Lopez,
When the article is finished, I will ask the author if he would be interested that a translated version would be printed in the BTS Journal (if the BTS would be interested in such an article).
Hi Lelle,
all the best,
Martin
of course, of course goose bumps! =;-)Originally posted by Lopez
Hehehe, you mean goose bumps? Close!
It will be printed in a german tarantula magazine (www.dearge.de) I think end of this year. ...wouldn't this be a chance to relearn your German! =;-)
When the article is finished, I will ask the author if he would be interested that a translated version would be printed in the BTS Journal (if the BTS would be interested in such an article).
Hi Lelle,
Have you red my above postings?
all the best,
Martin
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- 722
Re: Re: Pokies not for everyone
Here in the USA dealers that are responsible, list their pokies as having venom that is medically significant, not fatal. In Sweden you probably remain neutral on venom that can make you sick for weeks. Its a cultural difference, maybe semantics, but I know they're not fatal. Jabbing a pencil through your eye isn't fatal, but is medically significant.
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- Aug 19, 2002
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dangerous pencils...
Yes the pencil through the eye statement is a good one but see that's where the problem comes in. No one tries to warn you of the hazards of pencil ownership and in turn paint a negative image of the pencil. Again I point back to simple unable to argue facts. Has anyone that has been poke bitten died? No. Has anyone suffered irreversible damage. No. Has anyone lost a limb or even a finger tip ? No. Pain , cramping , and nausea are indeed no fun but are they really that serious in the grand scheme of things? I suppose to some they may be but I still just dont see it. You must keep in mind that someone going to the hospital on their own is subjective in that some folks go to the doctor every time they get the flu. Now again I am not saying that pokes are cuddly animals and that everyone should grab theirs and give it a big hug but geez people try to keep things in perspective here. We live our lives around things like cars and light sockets that most definately can kill and we don't fear them yet we continue to label pokes as dangerous despite the fact that everyone bitten who has bothered to write about it is still alive and quite well despite any discomfort they may have had. Sorry I really don't mean to rant on the subject but this truly seems to be the human fear reaction causing an irrational judgement of the species as a whole. Perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective by owning animals that are far hotter than them and because of this viewing it as unimportant but when you deal with animals that can and will kill you then a T bite just doesn't seem that frightening anymore.
Phil
Yes the pencil through the eye statement is a good one but see that's where the problem comes in. No one tries to warn you of the hazards of pencil ownership and in turn paint a negative image of the pencil.
Again I point back to simple unable to argue facts. Has anyone that has been poke bitten died? No. Has anyone suffered irreversible damage. No. Has anyone lost a limb or even a finger tip ? No. Pain , cramping , and nausea are indeed no fun but are they really that serious in the grand scheme of things? I suppose to some they may be but I still just dont see it. You must keep in mind that someone going to the hospital on their own is subjective in that some folks go to the doctor every time they get the flu. Now again I am not saying that pokes are cuddly animals and that everyone should grab theirs and give it a big hug but geez people try to keep things in perspective here. We live our lives around things like cars and light sockets that most definately can kill and we don't fear them yet we continue to label pokes as dangerous despite the fact that everyone bitten who has bothered to write about it is still alive and quite well despite any discomfort they may have had. Sorry I really don't mean to rant on the subject but this truly seems to be the human fear reaction causing an irrational judgement of the species as a whole. Perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective by owning animals that are far hotter than them and because of this viewing it as unimportant but when you deal with animals that can and will kill you then a T bite just doesn't seem that frightening anymore.Phil