Pink Toes to infinity and beyond

[AubZ]

I currently have 2 Versi's, 1 Purpurea & 1 Amazonica Sp. They are really awesome T's. I have gone for the slings as I want to see the whole color tranformations on them. Really one of the best T's imo.

 

[luna]

Most of you are fairly new members... If you are looking for a picture of a species or want to know what is commonly available in a genus just stay here on AB and go to the tarantula picture threads.

Look for the genus... like Avicularia ... and have fun scrolling through the pictures of what the other members are keeping. All the pictures have names with them and you will be amazed at the quality of most of the photography. Much better than what you find on the average site.

You can get lost in the picture section for hours when you are making your new spider wishlist.

Cheri


Here is the one just for Avics:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=20103

 

[Damien]

After being identified yesterday as an Avic Avic, Alegre here decided to sit right in the middle of the front of the tank, exposing all bits if you will, as if it wants to be assigned a gender as well now. Can anybody tell from this picture?

Also, thank you very much to everybody who replied so far. I had a very interesting evening reading up on my new arrivals.

 

[stooka]

who identified it as Avicularia avicularia?if you read the link i gave you then youd know that it probably aint as nobody really knows what A.avic looks like and i label mine as A.sp guyana 1 as this helps alot.Didnt mean that to sound nasty but it came across like it.

stu

 

[Damien]

Hey Stu,

they were both judged to be Avic Avic by consensus really.

I read the link you posted with great interest and found that basically there are so many it would be impossible to be precise without being an expert. According to the article, it would seem that the Avic Guyana is a sub-species of the Avic Avic, and so really is both.

Unfortunately I don't think I am qualified to make any educated statements about their family tree, and from reading the article I fear these may well be captive-bred mongrels by now. But I hate to make guesses where my knowledge is limited. That's why I keep posting stupid questions here. Feel free to set me straight. I won't be offended.

 

[Paramite]

I was just about to make a thread because I'm not sure which Avic I own. It was sold to me as Avicularia sp. "metallica" (of course it's not the real thing), but I'm beginning to think it's Avicularia avicularia. Anyway, I absolutely love this girl, no matter what species it is. My favourite.

What do you think?

 

[kyrga]

I recently saw a few avics avertised as "common pink toes" and sold for a price that was what you'd expect for A. avic, but they looked suspiciously like A. bicegoi (spelling?) to me, though I'm no expert. They were pretty red.

 

[luna]

I recently saw a few avics avertised as "common pink toes" and sold for a price that was what you'd expect for A. avic, but they looked suspiciously like A. bicegoi (spelling?) to me, though I'm no expert. They were pretty red.

Pet stores do make mistakes... we all do!

If you like the spider and think the price is reasonable, buy it. I have a beautiful B. smithi that I bought from another memeber on here. She told me she bought it at a petco or petsmart labled as a "rose hair". If they can't tell the difference between those two how can we expect them to tell the difference between the Avics? Their confusion can be your new species. And if it is "just" an A. avic; so what? Its a really reddish avic which makes it special to you.

I actually did the opposite... bought a "A. versicolor" from a guy that is no versi... my little one is cute but I think its a common pink toe

Cheri

 

[Becky]

There are MANY avicularia species out there but there are only so many in the hobby. Number of them that are well known or just known all together are nine. These are the only ones i knew of because botar has all of these for sale (of couse when i say for sale it only means if they are in stock). These are Avic-Avic, Avicularia bicegoi, Avicularia braunshauseni, Avicularia geroldi, Avicularia huriana, Avicularia metallica, Avicularia minatrix, Avicularia purpurea,Avicularia versicolor. If there are more than these in the hobbies than as you can tell I'm still just an amatuer because I don't know of any others.

Not quite true.

I have read a lot into the Avicularia genus as it is something really fascinates me. And so far (i'm miles off of understanding it properly!) i've come to realise that:
Avicularia avicularia, as has been previously mentioned, does not exist as such..it's simply another Avicularia sp. "Guyana" .. there are about 4 or 5 different sp. "Guyana"
Avicularia bicegoi also does not exist in the hobby and should just be labelled Avicularia sp. They're different from Avicularia sp. "Guyana" but the "real" bicegoi are not in the hobby. The names come up to make them easier to sell to people.

The easy to identify ones are:
Avicularia minatrix
Avicularia versicolor
Avicularia laeta
Avicularia purpurea.

Why?

minatrix keep the red abdominal striping into adult hood.
versicolor are striking coloured as adults, and bright blue as spiderlings.
laeta are also bright blue as spiderlings, like versicolor, but are brown as adults.
purpurea are purple as slings and adults.

So the only ones in hobby at the moment are:

Avicularia sp. "Guyana" numbered 1 to 5
Avicularia metallica
Avicularia versicolor
Avicularia minatrix
Avicularia geroldi
Avicularia laeta (gorgeous brown avics!)
Avicularia braushaunseni
Avicularia purpurea
Avicularia sp. "Peru purple"
Avicularia huriana


Avicularia amazonica is very hard to come by..the "real" thing anyway. A lot of the spiders being sold as sp. "amazonica" are infact, what is now known as Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple"
Amazonica is given to a number of different avics to make them sell easier (as im aware) Makes sense really... why would you pay good money for a spiderling labelled Avicularia sp.? When you can put a name on the end and charge 3 times the amount of money?
Yeah..makes sense, but look what it has done to the hobby!!
The whole genus is a mess. A lot of it to do with dealers mislabelling, and common names. As has been mentioned, a lot of "pink toes" have a number of common names... and some avic sp. (known as avic avic so that you know which i'm talking about :wall are sold as versicolor. This can mess up breeding etc

So in all the whole genus is in a complete knot! Shame... these spiders are gorgeous.
A good example of what can happen, and what probably will if this all carries on...is the Avicularia versicolor "case".
When versi's were first introduced they were chunkier, larger in body size and leg span and even better coloured. Then a smaller "versi" was introduced, labelled the same (but from a different part of the world) and so bred with the same "spider" (the bigger versi's) and over time we have lost the big versi's...

I just hope someone can help the genus before it goes down that route or worse...

 

[Elaine]

Hi Damien
Your Avic's are gorgeous :worship:
I notice you live not far from me. I'm in Loanhead, on the outskirts of Edinburgh near the Hillend ski slope.


Becky hun, thanks for the explanation. It was easy to follow thankfully

I seem to be ok with the ones I have, A. versicolor, A. purpurea and A. braunshauseni. Now I'm not so sure that getting A. bicegoi is such a good idea. I would be better of getting the A. minatrix instead. Mind you, if I come across that lovely brick red coloured Avic then I may just be too tempted :worship:

Elaine

 

[pinkfoot]

So they are definitely the same species then. Am greatly relieved. Now I'll keep my fingers crossed Alegre is female.

Thank you very much for your help. It is greatly appreciated!

Actually...no. There is no longer any way to decide the species of the genus Avicularia by photograph. Sorry, Damien! Chances are really no better than 50/50, as this genus is in total chaos at present, and very few of us really know what we have (though of course we believe we do)!

This thread will explain more fully...

http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=8120&hl=

Hope it helps.

 

[Damien]

That's reassuring then...

Does that not mean we now have a mixed species of Avics that we would be better to refer to by its group name rather than their individual names? Seeing as both my spiders are captive-bred I can't imagine the breeding has only ever happened between the same exact sub-species, especially if there is so much confusion about their names.

More importantly, if Alegre is female (if anybody has an idea about the picture, please let me know...), would the two be able to mate, or would that create some sort of unnatural creature in your opinion? I could name them all after freaks of nature (Frankenstein's monster, Hogzilla, John Prescott and so on).

PS Hello Elaine. Indeed we are quite close. I live on Lothian Road.

 

[monkey]

Slightly off topic......

Seeing as you all know so much about avics, you might be able to help me.
I've just got my first ones, 2 avic versicolors, both about the size of my little fingernail. I want to know if I'm doing the right things. I've had them 5 days.
I've got them in small pots, about 4 inches tall, 1inch square base with peat and some cork bark. I've drilled lots of vent holes around the top and on the lids
I can't spray them too easily without upsetting the spiders, so I have a little syringe and I squirt some water down the side onto the peat to keep it moist.
I don't know how long to leave them before feeding, and I have to disturb them by lifting the pots up to take the lids off, so I'm a little concerned it might put them off their food. I tried over the weekend, I think one ate, but I had to pull the cricket out of the other pot.
I have a big B.Smithi which causes me no problems, but I worry about the little ones!
How often should I feed them? I was planning on trying twice a week, my big Spid gets a locust once a week.
They seem difficult to get hold of in the uk, which is why I ended up with small ones.
They are so pretty though, I really want to see them through to adulthood.

 

[pinkfoot]

Sorry about not having good news, mate!

As you will have seen from that thread, a lot of work is being done on the genus, purportedly by Ray Gabriel of the UK, so perhaps we'll have some clarity in the not too distant future.

If you're not planning to sell the slings on, I would say Breed 'em and enjoy the result, but that's the same dilemma facing all folk breeding Avics..! If you can trace yours back to a reputable breeder who can confirm the species, I believe your chances are very good of having what you think you do have.

It's a grey area though, in truth, as we see from that thread - and others like it.

We're all in the same boat as enthusiasts...

@ monkey - Sorry, missed your post as I prepared mine! You might want to start your own thread..?

 

[Becky]

Seeing as you all know so much about avics, you might be able to help me.
I've just got my first ones, 2 avic versicolors, both about the size of my little fingernail. I want to know if I'm doing the right things. I've had them 5 days.
I've got them in small pots, about 4 inches tall, 1inch square base with peat and some cork bark. I've drilled lots of vent holes around the top and on the lids
I can't spray them too easily without upsetting the spiders, so I have a little syringe and I squirt some water down the side onto the peat to keep it moist.
I don't know how long to leave them before feeding, and I have to disturb them by lifting the pots up to take the lids off, so I'm a little concerned it might put them off their food. I tried over the weekend, I think one ate, but I had to pull the cricket out of the other pot.
I have a big B.Smithi which causes me no problems, but I worry about the little ones!
How often should I feed them? I was planning on trying twice a week, my big Spid gets a locust once a week.
They seem difficult to get hold of in the uk, which is why I ended up with small ones.
They are so pretty though, I really want to see them through to adulthood.

When i had my 1cm versi i kept it in a pasta sauce jar. Coconut fibre substrate on the bottom, keeping it wet, some sphagnum moss on the bottom aswell to boost the humidity, then a piece of cork bark leaning against one side of the jar for the sling to hide behind. It webbed heavily and was soon living on the roof of the jar, ignoring the bark altogether and when i lifted up the lid, there it was! lol
It stayed in the same jar for a good number of moults, rehoused it at about 2". Here's a pic when i rehoused him/her.

Feeding twice a week will be fine. Remove and kill any uneaten prey the next day ( i say kill it, as feeding it to another spider afterwards is bad news, can spread nematodes... and it isn't worth the risk!) Then the crix can't chomp on moulting T's.
Spray the webbing gently, the spider will drink from this. Don't worry about disturbing the spider while removing the lid etc.. it'll be fine and will rebuild any destroyed web if it feels it should. If the spider is hungry, it will eat anyway, if not leave for a few hours and then remove it (the food not the spider lol)

Hope this helps

 

[Becky]

Becky hun, thanks for the explanation. It was easy to follow thankfully

I seem to be ok with the ones I have, A. versicolor, A. purpurea and A. braunshauseni. Now I'm not so sure that getting A. bicegoi is such a good idea. I would be better of getting the A. minatrix instead. Mind you, if I come across that lovely brick red coloured Avic then I may just be too tempted :worship:

Elaine

Hey Elaine!

As i say, the easy to identify ones don't pose so much of an issue.. it's the green and blue ones that all look the same that pose problems.
You will be fine with versicolor, purpurea and minatrix. And the braunshauseni from Sven is pretty much 100% the real thing, Sven is very good for avics.

I did more looking up of avic species today! and i missed out:

Avicularia huriana
Avicularia azuraklaasi
Avicularia juruensis
Avicularia urticans

They are in the hobby... but again, hard to identify..

I also saw a pic of Avicularia bicegoi,that looked remarkably like whats being sold as Avicularia sp. "Peru Purple".. just shows how much of a mess it is don't it really...

Shame..

I've got 2x bicegoi on order from a german dealer, and im gonna label them Avicularia sp. "Bicegoi" coz if i put Avicularia sp. it could be any of the Avic Avic species..so just to distinguish ... So if i post them here and i get lectures about it,you know what i mean lol I also have 1x Avicularia sp. "amazonica" coming (which im REEEEALLY hoping is the real deal, but will have to wait til its adult *sigh*) and 2x Avicularia laeta and maybe a minatrix aswell

Can't wait!

 

[Elaine]

Cheers Becky, its good to know mine are ok and probably the real thing. The A. versi's are pretty hard to mix up so I know they are right. Same goes for the A. purpurea but with the A. braunshauseni's looking the same the as the A. avic, it could be a bit to easy to confuse the two until they reach adult size.

I hope all goes well with your new ones but you know I'm going to be wanting tonnes of pics and will be watching closely to see how those A. sp. bicegoi turn out as I have seen some photo's on here and love the colouring.

I'm also going to keeping a close eye n Sven's updated lists

Elaine xx

 

[Becky]

Sven had some bicegoi and laeta on his last list and i pm'd him about them but couldnt afford them at the time. His next list i may make an order. If you're goin to order some, maybe we could do a joint order? And one pay postage to the other, while one pays for postage from him? If that makes sense lol

Oh dont worry, you'll get plenty of piccies!
A. versi are hard to mix up really lol

 

[Elaine]

That sounds like a good idea on a joint order I'm not looking for anything just yet unless he has some A. sp. "bicegoi" and I happen to have a few extra quid at the time

Will let you know when he posts a new list and I see something I want.

Speaking of A. versi's, mine havent eaten for just over a week. Maybe get some moults soon Once they have moulted I will get them separated into their individual tubs. Fingers crossed.
Elaine xx

 

[Becky]

Oh you still have them communal?
I wish i'd bought some of Howard's versi's now lol I only have the one, which i bought from Lee last year. Thats it in the pic above ^^