Phormictopus Cancerides owners? Any advice for a newb?

[draconisj4]

And I've read that they are both defensive but would rather retreat than attack.

I can't speak for adult behavior, but I have 2 youngsters. My 3" juvenile and a 1" sling.. neither one retreats at all, if anything they both run towards me. The 1" sling is much bolder than my other one was at that size.

 

[Whitelightning777]

The cage is a Terra Blue professional with a bonded screen and reptilock. The waterdish is overflowed frequently and the frog moss is moist. Since the cage has a hot and cold side, the spider doesn't climb the walls or hang upside down. (They go for height and light when the temps are to cold, typically well under 80 degrees. Warmth prevents this self destructive misbehavior in terrestrials.)

I also used that skull for my Lasiodora Klugi until she got to pudgy to fit inside of it. Typically, the spider is out in plain sight and doesn't really use the hide unless I open the lid for whatever reason. The nice thing about the skull is that if the spider goes inside when you open the cage, you can just drop the roach down right on top of it resulting in an instant feeding.

Of course, I can do the same thing with a half cork round if I drilled a 2" hole into the top of it.

That enclosure is exactly what I used with my L klugi until she outgrew it. Usually if tarantulas are dehydrated, they'll hover over the water dish. I've never even seen her take a drink. The water dish in there is still slightly wider then the spider but that might change with the next molt.

The temps are hot side about 83, cold side 74. Humidity typical range 60% to 70% minimum of 50% but I'm not paranoid about it. Once a week, I remove the plastic from the screen and let the whole thing dry out before rehydrating it. The T seems totally indifferent to it.

Her appetite is excellent and she'll eat anything, even if in premolt.

Are you suggesting pushing the temps or humidity even higher like say similar to T. blondi?

I'm satisfied with the growth rate, activity level and appetite as is. She hangs out where the temp is exactly 80 degrees just like most of my others do. They like that number.

Her exact species is P sp machala, suspect female dls about 2.5-3 inches.

 

[sasker]

The waterdish is overflowed frequently and the frog moss is moist.

If by overflowing the water dish you mean that you wet about 50% of the substrate, then you are doing the right thing. If it is just moist around the water dish, you are keeping your Pampho way too dry. It's not a Brachypelma sp.

I don't know about your whole warm side / cold side scenario, though. Usually tarantulas go for the warmer side anyway, even if it is too hot. Tarantulas are not like snakes that bask in the sun if they feel they are too cold. I think we have been over this in another threat. It will be pretty useless to restart a new debate on how not to chase humidity percentages, temperatures, etc. Agree to disagree, and all that...

Unlike Lasiodora spp., Pamphobeteus spp. do not tend to climb as much anyway (at least I see a clear difference in mine). What I do notice, is that my P. sp mascara is much more dependent on having a burrow than my LP. So perhaps your spider needs to choose between leaving the 'comfort' of her hide or hang out to hover over her water dish, choosing the former. This does not mean she does not need humidity.

My Pampho is out most of the time, but she runs down her hide as soon as she feels any disturbance. She is about 5 inch now, and she expanded/excavated her burrow quite nicely. I suggest giving her a decent hide and plenty of substrate. I wouldn't give her as much humidity as a Theraphosa sp., just poor some water on the substrate when the moist half is drying up a little. They need humidity. P. sp mascara is said to be able to withstand drier conditions better than other members of the genus, but she still hangs out above the moist substrate most of the time.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Interesting. Mine stands around in the open dead center. She avoids the very hot or very cool side. One thing that's a giveaway is if substrate appears in the water dish. That means they are drinking from it but not in front of you. Hers had nothing in it.

Here she was, quick shots taken before work. She likes to hang out right on the line between the wet and dry side of the cage where it's 80.

 

[sasker]

You do realise that drinking / the need to drink has not so much to do with the need for higher air humidity, right? As I understood, it is particularly important that the book lungs of species that require humidity are kept from drying out. The typical 'hovering above the water dish' would give species that are kept too dry some relief. By the way, humidity gauges don't measure the air directly above the substrate.

My Pampho does not drink often either (I have never seen her drinking), but I keep her water dish full anyway. And yes, she is out about 95% of the time, but she would bolt into her burrow if I were to pick up her enclosure. She also likes to eat there.

Edit: of course spiders that are kept too dry lose relatively much water through their book lungs, so they may drink more water.

 

[Arachnophoric]

One thing that's a giveaway is if substrate appears in the water dish. That means they are drinking from it but not in front of you.

That's not really an accurate way to tell if your T is drinking, a lot of them just seem to like dumping substrate in their water dishes. Mine do, at least.

 

[Nightstalker47]

One thing that's a giveaway is if substrate appears in the water dish. That means they are drinking from it but not in front of you.

Tarantulas will pile dirt in the water dish for no reason...and others may take drinks without leaving a trace. This is simply not true, and yet another false claim on your part.

Humidity typical range 60% to 70% minimum of 50% but I'm not paranoid about it.

Your a very slow learner...

TOnce a week, I remove the plastic from the screen and let the whole thing dry out before rehydrating it.

Covering up the ventilation to hold in humidity is an easy way to create a stuffy environment(stagnant air) that will kill your tarantula...stop measuring the humidity and trying to hit those numbers. Thats precisely why you shouldn't do it...but of course you insist on learning the hard way.

I wont waste my time helping you if you refuse to learn.

 

[Andrea82]

@FraddyCat
Please ignore WhiteLightening's advice...his keeping methods and irrelevant posts have been a source of disagreement for as long as I can remember.

 

[Whitelightning777]

The tarantula seems to be fine & yes I do overflow the waterdish to keep the wet side wet.

I check that water dish twice daily when I go to and from work mostly. The water dish is actually bigger then the tarantula....for now.

If 60 to 70 percent humidity isn't enough for that species, what number range is enough?

I understand that stuffy enclosures are bad. When I cover the top, there's about an inch gap on each side, hot and cold.

The trick you can do with side heating is that hot air rises, which draws in cooler air from outside. Of course, this proceeds at a rather slow pace but probably still gets daily turnover.

To test this, get a laser pointer and spray down all the walls prior to obtaining the spider but after setting up the cage. With the outside air fully still, you can actually watch a very faint plume of air with moist air rising from the hotter side. Yes, you need a lot of time on your hands. You can also watch how the water evaporates from the inner glass. Obviously, never do this after the spider had been placed therein.

There is no "lesson" to be learned other then that tong feeding isn't a good idea because she'll try to run up the tongs.

In any event, here's a video.

The worm is a supplement, not the primary diet. I typically offer both my L Klugi and P sp machala one Earth worm per month and after the fangs are fully hardened up as a first post molt meal to bulk up the abdomen -- strictly optional of course. Dubai roaches are generally the best all around feeders bar none and I've got plenty of those for now. Crickets, hornworms, mealworms and the occasional hissers also appear and vanish rapidly in said enclosures.

I try to feed the widest variety of food possible to my critters.

 

[cold blood]

If 60 to 70 percent humidity isn't enough for that species, what number range is enough?

They need damp sub....period...not humidity...any t can be kept at any humidity level, its not relevant. Your ambient humidity will dictate how much water you add to the sub and how often...don't measure humidity numbers and for the love of god, don't aim for specific numbers....a t cannot get moisture from the air, so why measure it???

Its really as simple as keeping the substrate damp, and when it dries, re-dampen.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Half of the substrate is indeed quite moist. Frog moss is also a great way to up the overall moisture level.

My specimen doesn't dig any sort of burrow. In fact, she actually filled in the starter burrow I created under the skull and flattened out that area totally level.

I'm not sure how it came about, but the conditions already seen to match what people are talking about. In another two or three molts, I'll have to rehouse her anyway.

 

[sasker]

They need damp sub....period...not humidity...

for the love of god, don't aim for specific numbers

This has been pointed out to him quite often.

@Whitelightning777 You are absolutely free to keep your spiders the way you do. But don't expect anyone to tell you that you are doing it the best way. If you insist on keeping your tarantulas differently from many, much more experienced keepers and breeders, please do so without bothering anyone. You keep asking questions like "what number range humidity is enough" while you know by now that no-one seriously involved in keeping tarantulas chases humidity levels. If you don't want to listen, fine. But stop asking such questions. You are just annoying people. Thank you.

 

[Whitelightning777]

That's not true.

Excessive humidity, airborne measured, can kill Avics. Like I said, I'm not paranoid about the number.

The number does tell you how fast things will dry out and alerts you of that over you get to know your setup.

Specific humidity numbers are used by breeders of some species for example G pulchra and B hamorii to get them to lay a sac.

The measurements are far from useless. Besides, there is no harm in taking note of the data.

This is just one example. NOW do you get it?

This has been pointed out to him quite often.

@Whitelightning777 You are absolutely free to keep your spiders the way you do. But don't expect anyone to tell you that you are doing it the best way. If you insist on keeping your tarantulas differently from many, much more experienced keepers and breeders, please do so without bothering anyone. You keep asking questions like "what number range humidity is enough" while you know by now that no-one seriously involved in keeping tarantulas chases humidity levels. If you don't want to listen, fine. But stop asking such questions. You are just annoying people. Thank you.

So?

If you want to get annoyed, feel free to do so.

Why are "experienced" keepers using cheap junk enclosures that they can't even see through for critters that can put them into the hospital?

That's a major ouch waiting to happen.

Why are such geniuses still keeping them on vermiculite? By what mechanism for simply measuring a variable such as temp or humidity inflict harm? How come so many of these rocket scientists can't even warm an enclosure without dangerous hot spots inside? Why are so many of them confused about basic electronics or can't even set up a decent looking transparent cage?

Why are these geniuses transferring fast moving critters in cluttered areas of the home with nothing cleared out of the way in case the tarantula runs or wearing lose clothing that a tarantula couple easily run up under? Am I the only one that wears a mask so I don't breath on them by accident when transferring them?

Then you have these idiots feeding mice or birds to them, fully mature ones that can harm the spider, for no reason that I can understand.

How come more then a few "experienced" keepers are junking those Jerry rigged sterilite paper boxes for breeder boxes or other cages in phases?

I'm not all that impressed with hacks that may have 300 spiders, but keep them like chickens in a factory farm that you can't even see.

I'm not even going to go into the unsexed=male but we won't tell you that thing right now.

Hint hint. With a whiff of CO2 (baking soda and vinegar or maybe even putting the sling carefully into a clear ziplock bag ) and one of these you can ventral sex spiders at a very young age with about a 70 to 80 percent rate of accuracy.



Rant concluded.

 

[Arachnophoric]

Why are "experienced" keepers using cheap junk enclosures that they can't even see through for critters that can put them into the hospital?

How come more then a few "experienced" keepers are junking those Jerry rigged sterilite paper boxes for breeder boxes or other cages in phases?

Because not everyone wants to pay more in caging than they are on their spiders. Tubs make more than suitable homes, are easily stackable to conserve space, are easy to make 100% secure, don't require idiotic rigs to hold in moisture or offer additional ventilation, and most people who know what they're doing check to see where their spider is before popping the lid.

Why are such geniuses still keeping them on vermiculite? By what mechanism for simply measuring a variable such as temp or humidity inflict harm? How come so many of these rocket scientists can't even warm an enclosure without dangerous hot spots inside? Why are so many of them confused about basic electronics or can't even set up a decent looking transparent cage?

I can't remember the last time I saw someone suggesting keeping Ts on vermiculite. Unless I'm mistaken, topsoil and cocofiber are the most common suggestions around here. And all of those fancy electronics of yours are wasted and potentially dangerous efforts - they offer way too many disadvantages when you can go without them and see zero difference except in the electric bill. You want to set up all your gadgets and waste time getting the perfect number because it works for you? Cool beans. But don't be surprised when others see your rather hazardous looking setup and don't follow suit. Your setups sure as hell ain't anything to put on a pedestal, my dude. I could use a lot of words in the English dictionary to describe your setups, but "decent looking" isn't anywhere on that list.

Why are these geniuses transferring fast moving critters in cluttered areas of the home with nothing cleared out of the way in case the tarantula runs or wearing lose clothing that a tarantula couple easily run up under?

Nobody on here suggests that's a good idea. That's a dumb idea. We actively advocate against these kinds of methods.

Am I the only one that wears a mask so I don't breath on them by accident when transferring them?

About the only thing that's come out of you that sounds like good advice, and you can't even deliver it in a way that doesn't make you sound condescending. SMH.

Then you have these idiots feeding mice or birds to them, fully mature ones that can harm the spider, for no reason that I can understand.

Again, I haven't seen a single experienced person on here suggest doing that. Vertebrates are entirely unnecessary in a tarantulas diet and pose unnecessary risk.

I'm not even going to go into the unsexed=male but we won't tell you that thing right now.

Good, as it has literally nothing to do with anything in this circumstance.

Literally everything you just said had zero impact on the discussion that was being presented. This post was pointless, or as other users said earlier...

irrelevant

 

[Mirandarachnid]

Hint hint. With a whiff of CO2 (baking soda and vinegar or maybe even putting the sling carefully into a clear ziplock bag ) and one of these you can ventral sex spiders at a very young age with about a 70 to 80 percent rate of accuracy.

View attachment 273453

I've been sooo good about just hitting the 'dislike' button, and not commenting on your dribble. (mostly because I see that reason doesn't get through to you, so this is obviously an exercise in futility, but whatever.)

I know you were just using this as an opportunity to show off your toy in the hopes that a good looking piece of equipment would make you appear knowledgeable. But for the love of all that is holy, why would you knock out a spider with CO2, or put it in a freaking ziplock just to get a closer look at it's belly, and maybe guess the sex? (I assume you pulled those accuracy numbers from the same place you get the rest of your ideas ->, as you would have to knock out, or ziplock, many slings of different species, make your guess, then wait for a molt to confirm your guess to get any kind of usable data) That's stupid, selfish, and pointless. Wait for a molt bro. I have the same scope as you (which genuinely depresses me a little, cause that means I have something in common with you ), and it's fabulous for inspecting molts. It's fabulous for untangling molts. Patience is key in this hobby. Just wait. Using that scope, you will be able to untangle some hopeless looking exuvia, that is, if you have the patience.


I'm kicking myself for even taking the time to type this, I know how receptive you are to information

 

[Arachnophoric]

I'm kicking myself for even taking the time to type this, I know how receptive you are to information

It's good to put out there so that anyone reading this thread that may be none-the-wiser will be able to read alternatives to drugging your spider and tossing them in a plastic baggie for something that's about as accurate as normal, based on those percentages. 70-80%? I'm not doing that to a sling even if it's 100% accurate.

 

[sasker]

Why are such geniuses still keeping them on vermiculite?

You must refer to Deadly Tarantula Girl, right? Well, if she is - to you - the benchmark of a genius keeper, you are beyond redemption, bro

As for the rest of your rant, I prefer not to dignify that with a comment, but I feel compelled to do so anyway. I think you should continue keeping tarantulas and expand your collection. It is a great hobby indeed! Perhaps one day you will also have 100+ spiders and after having pulled another A. geniculata egg sack you decide you don't feel like gassing all your slings anymore because it is too much hassle (and it probably kills them. I mean, come on! Have you seriously tried this?). By then, I am sure you will also have moved on to sterilite boxes because you need to safe money for your next 'holy grail' species. You also moved on to using an easier system to warm your enclosures, because heat lamps, cables and what not would resemble a spiderweb by itself. By then you are one of the leading authorities on keeping and breeding spiders. If you reach this point, I hope you will re-read your earlier post, and I hope that you can laugh about them as much as we can.

 

[Andrea82]

Aaaaand he steals the thread again.

@FraddyCat how's your P.cancerides doing? Aside from the frustration in this thread, were you able to get the info you needed?

 

[Greasylake]

I'm just gonna leave this here...
http://arachnoboards.com/threads/just-a-short-quick-vid.305065/

 

[FraddyCat]

Aaaaand he steals the thread again.

@FraddyCat how's your P.cancerides doing? Aside from the frustration in this thread, were you able to get the info you needed?

Lol. I've gotten lots. Thanks for asking. My spider locked her self in her hide. Haven't seen her for maybe 3 days now. Not concerned though. She is probably tired of me sticking my face up to the glass!