PETA and HSUS

[pitbulllady]

Experiences vary and I would love to meet some locals who truly care about the pets they own, instead of simply being passionate. Just my opinion, but I think your a lucky guy to know so many good people.

I certainly dont blame guns or all gun owners for gun violence. I suppose sometimes gun violence could be associated with how the children are raised. Acording to wikipedia Michael Vick grew up where dog fighting was the norm. So when he came into money he decided to get into the "business" for himself. By no means am I trying to defend his actions, but perhaps his actions are part of a larger cultural issue of ignorance. Opposed to pointing the finger at Vick, which has already been done, Im left wondering what kind of world we live in where anyone thinks its ok for kids to be involved in such an activity. As an adult you could argue that he should be mature enough to know its wrong, but social programming is a powerful agent, and there isnt enough awareness about animal cruelty to change someones point of view. Especially someone who grew up with adults telling children dog fighting is cool.


I would be very interested in hearing what happened to the PETA members found dumping bodies in trash cans. Im willing to bet the PR said something along the lines of, "We are currently looking into it" and thats the end of the story.

The PETA members in question were acquitted of all charges except for a misdemeanor charge of "littering" or "illegal dumping". Seriously. Do not underestimate the legal juggernauts that these groups have at their disposal. Trust me, if you or I got caught taking healthy pets from people, promising to give those pets a new home, then killing them with illegally-obtained controlled substances and throwing their dead bodies in a dumpster belonging to a business, we'd both still be in prison. The control that both PETA and HSUS have over judges and the influence they exert over elected officials is too great to simply brush off. This is why both groups are currently being sued under the RICO Statute, which was originally designed to bust up the Mob and interrupt its activities.

Some people have argued that merely agreeing with these groups in principal on most of their stances does nothing to "empower" them, or help them get what they want. Really? If you agree with PETA or HSUS, what politicians are you most likely to vote for, those who are opposed to those same views, or those who agree with them? If you have a choice between two politicians, one who say, thinks that hunting is evil and horrible and should be banned, or one who is an avid hunter himself? Chances are that the AR movement is going to have made major financial contributions to the politician who shares their viewpoint, and if you're on board with it, too, and help put into office a politician who will work to further the AR agenda, you still helped them! While you might agree with them on every single issue, by helping them get their political allies in power, you help ensure that their agenda is furthered. They won't pick and choose just to promote and push for the things that YOU support. You might have thought you only voted to help end hunting, but you get a ban on owning reptiles and other "exotic" pets in the bargain. They don't distinguish between a responsible dog breeder and someone who keeps hundreds of dogs in horrible conditions just to have "designer puppies" for sale 365 days per year. These people are NOT going to compromise. It's too late to say, "WHOA! I just voted for What's-His-Face because he promised to ban hunting, and now he's trying to ban my pets?" Politicians are going to follow the money. Just because you did not donate money to PETA or HSUS, by supporting the same politicians they support, and fund, you still support them, and they aren't going to stop with just implementing the changes that YOU want. If you still believe that we should be allowed to own the animals of our choosing, that can come around quickly to "bite" you.

pitbulllady

 

[SamuraiSid]

Thank you PBL. On an unrelated topic the last time I voted was for the tories in the federal election several years back. I voted for the sole purpose of ending the long gun registry. My views on the subject are that criminals dont register their firearms, and secondly, criminals dont use bolt-action hunting rifles to rob banks. That was 2 elections ago and the registery still exists. Campaign promises dont mean much since after the election you have spent your voice and the corporations still have lobbyists in Ottawa. Plus you mention plea bargains you need to raise with the opposition to make even a small victory.



After some more digging I found this:
http://topcatsroar.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/animal-welfare-v-animal-rights-skinned-alive-is-a-myth/

The German High Court found PETA guilty of paying people to skin animals alive, videotape the torture, and then pass the videos off as industry norms. PETA wanted people to think that Ugg boots were made from the furs of tortured, living animals.



Personally I wont be pleased with the results of the RICO case against PETA. The ASPCA paid out $9.3 million and to the best of my knowledge didnt make headlines. Something tells me that PETA will get a similar slap on the wrist, and with their lack of funds will likely result to baseball bats for euthanization.



Now Im wondering if anyone is aware of organizations worth backing?

 

[The Snark]

Now Im wondering if anyone is aware of organizations worth backing?

You could start with Senckenberg Research Institute (Dr. Jager et al), Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, the RSPCA Reform group, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and a few others. I'd avoid the Human Rites Crotch (US Congress) and anyone even remotely ass-sociated with them.

 

[Najakeeper]

The PETA members in question were acquitted of all charges except for a misdemeanor charge of "littering" or "illegal dumping". Seriously. Do not underestimate the legal juggernauts that these groups have at their disposal. Trust me, if you or I got caught taking healthy pets from people, promising to give those pets a new home, then killing them with illegally-obtained controlled substances and throwing their dead bodies in a dumpster belonging to a business, we'd both still be in prison. The control that both PETA and HSUS have over judges and the influence they exert over elected officials is too great to simply brush off. This is why both groups are currently being sued under the RICO Statute, which was originally designed to bust up the Mob and interrupt its activities.

Some people have argued that merely agreeing with these groups in principal on most of their stances does nothing to "empower" them, or help them get what they want. Really? If you agree with PETA or HSUS, what politicians are you most likely to vote for, those who are opposed to those same views, or those who agree with them? If you have a choice between two politicians, one who say, thinks that hunting is evil and horrible and should be banned, or one who is an avid hunter himself? Chances are that the AR movement is going to have made major financial contributions to the politician who shares their viewpoint, and if you're on board with it, too, and help put into office a politician who will work to further the AR agenda, you still helped them! While you might agree with them on every single issue, by helping them get their political allies in power, you help ensure that their agenda is furthered. They won't pick and choose just to promote and push for the things that YOU support. You might have thought you only voted to help end hunting, but you get a ban on owning reptiles and other "exotic" pets in the bargain. They don't distinguish between a responsible dog breeder and someone who keeps hundreds of dogs in horrible conditions just to have "designer puppies" for sale 365 days per year. These people are NOT going to compromise. It's too late to say, "WHOA! I just voted for What's-His-Face because he promised to ban hunting, and now he's trying to ban my pets?" Politicians are going to follow the money. Just because you did not donate money to PETA or HSUS, by supporting the same politicians they support, and fund, you still support them, and they aren't going to stop with just implementing the changes that YOU want. If you still believe that we should be allowed to own the animals of our choosing, that can come around quickly to "bite" you.

pitbulllady

Yeah, so we come to the heart of the problem.

In US, politicians, who raise more money, will win the office they are running for. So basically, every single politician is bought and paid for by one special interest group or another, be it PETA or NRA, it does not matter. What you guys need is a proper political system, where legalized bribery does not exist anymore and corporations are not considered "people". Then you can be represented by people, who actually care about your concerns.

 

[The Snark]

Yeah, so we come to the heart of the problem.

In US, politicians, who raise more money, will win the office they are running for. So basically, every single politician is bought and paid for by one special interest group or another, be it PETA or NRA, it does not matter. What you guys need is a proper political system, where legalized bribery does not exist anymore and corporations are not considered "people". Then you can be represented by people, who actually care about your concerns.

:sarcasm:
Bullfeather$. Ju$t becau$e corporation$ have the $ame right$ a$ individual$, animal$ are con$idered food, target$ or toy$, they $till $hove creationi$m in kid$ face$ in pubic $koolz and debate evolution, we con$ume more food and re$ource$ than any other country but are among the wor$t fed nutrition wi$e, get our new$ from incredibly $$$ bia$ed $ource$, have the wor$t homele$$ problem of the entire world, have more people in pri$on than any other country, are rapidly becoming the mo$t obe$e people in the world, demand we have an infinite amount of toy$ and luxury goodie$ a$ motorhome$, RV$ etc, and have one of the crappie$t education $y$tem$, doe$n't mean we aren't kind loving wonderful fanta$tic people... and we've got the war toy$ to prove it!
:sarcasm:

could we get a little more wax on the floor over there... and there?

My theme song: [YOUTUBE]NOErZuzZpS8&list[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Thistles]

Some people have argued that merely agreeing with these groups in principal on most of their stances does nothing to "empower" them, or help them get what they want. Really? If you agree with PETA or HSUS, what politicians are you most likely to vote for, those who are opposed to those same views, or those who agree with them? If you have a choice between two politicians, one who say, thinks that hunting is evil and horrible and should be banned, or one who is an avid hunter himself? Chances are that the AR movement is going to have made major financial contributions to the politician who shares their viewpoint, and if you're on board with it, too, and help put into office a politician who will work to further the AR agenda, you still helped them! While you might agree with them on every single issue, by helping them get their political allies in power, you help ensure that their agenda is furthered. They won't pick and choose just to promote and push for the things that YOU support. You might have thought you only voted to help end hunting, but you get a ban on owning reptiles and other "exotic" pets in the bargain. They don't distinguish between a responsible dog breeder and someone who keeps hundreds of dogs in horrible conditions just to have "designer puppies" for sale 365 days per year. These people are NOT going to compromise. It's too late to say, "WHOA! I just voted for What's-His-Face because he promised to ban hunting, and now he's trying to ban my pets?" Politicians are going to follow the money. Just because you did not donate money to PETA or HSUS, by supporting the same politicians they support, and fund, you still support them, and they aren't going to stop with just implementing the changes that YOU want. If you still believe that we should be allowed to own the animals of our choosing, that can come around quickly to "bite" you.

...she says as if it doesn't go both ways. Yes, the American political system is a disaster. That goes for both political parties. Everyone's got their hands in the money. You have yet to answer any of my criticisms. You and your fan club just keep on making generalizations and attacking straw men.

 

[bugmankeith]

I think I heard this is the same for the starving children commercials and UNICEF, that a petty fee helps children the rest goes to the company.

Also get this (a lot of organizations are liars). I've donated clothes and toys to charities, supposedly to go to needy children and families. Most stuff was in perfect condition but a few toys had my initials on them in small writing. You know I found 3 things of mine being sold on ebay I donated to these so called charities? The sellers page said nothing about working for charity or profit for charity. Its hard to trust any charity these days...


And like others stated, instead of paying thousands to make these commercials the money should be going to the cause!

 

[The Snark]

I think I heard this is the same for the starving children commercials and UNICEF, that a petty fee helps children the rest goes to the company.

Also get this (a lot of organizations are liars). I've donated clothes and toys to charities, supposedly to go to needy children and families. Most stuff was in perfect condition but a few toys had my initials on them in small writing. You know I found 3 things of mine being sold on ebay I donated to these so called charities? The sellers page said nothing about working for charity or profit for charity. Its hard to trust any charity these days...


And like others stated, instead of paying thousands to make these commercials the money should be going to the cause!

Very true. Always check the facts of the cause or organization before donating or contributing. On that subject, one cause that is outstanding in it's field of putting the money where it does the most good: The Gates Foundation! I use their efforts as a guide that I hold others up against to compare.

 

[SamuraiSid]

:sarcasm:
Bullfeather$. Ju$t becau$e corporation$ have the $ame right$ a$ individual$, animal$ are con$idered food, target$ or toy$, they $till $hove creationi$m in kid$ face$ in pubic $koolz and debate evolution, we con$ume more food and re$ource$ than any other country but are among the wor$t fed nutrition wi$e, get our new$ from incredibly $$$ bia$ed $ource$, have the wor$t homele$$ problem of the entire world, have more people in pri$on than any other country, are rapidly becoming the mo$t obe$e people in the world, demand we have an infinite amount of toy$ and luxury goodie$ a$ motorhome$, RV$ etc, and have one of the crappie$t education $y$tem$, doe$n't mean we aren't kind loving wonderful fanta$tic people... and we've got the war toy$ to prove it!
:sarcasm:

could we get a little more wax on the floor over there... and there?

My theme song: [YOUTUBE]NOErZuzZpS8&list[/YOUTUBE]

I think this might be why PETA feels its in an animals best interest to be euthanized instead of owned. Sometimes a peacful death (assuming the technician is properly trained) is better than the overwhelming possibility of living a miserable life.

I still dont agree with PETA, just searching for some middle ground to keep the conversation flowing.

 

[The Snark]

I think this might be why PETA feels its in an animals best interest to be euthanized instead of owned. Sometimes a peacful death (assuming the technician is properly trained) is better than the overwhelming possibility of living a miserable life.

I still dont agree with PETA, just searching for some middle ground to keep the conversation flowing.

Well, you hit on the heart of the problem. There is no middle ground. The extremes overlap to a tremendous degree. A perfect example is here on AB the other day. I'm a pretty radical conservationist but I came under fire for promoting depredation. However, the sad fact is at the present time euthanasia is one very necessary solution to one of the problems. A few years back they had a rabies outbreak in Djakarta and the police quickly ran out of ammunition as they tried to reduce the completely out of control dog population.

The WHO facts pretty much say it all. An estimated 200 million stray dogs in the world today and 55,000 human deaths every year from rabies. Yet let the word get out you put down stray animals, regardless of how humanely, you are going to get flamed from many quarters.

 

[The Snark]

The million pound hammer, as you people requested

I so desperately have been wanting to tell a whole lot of people where they can kiss what of my anatomy. I boiled over today when I met a girl walking along a backwater stretch of road. She was wearing a flithy t-shirt and ragged pants, walking along looking for recyclables to sell. I guesstimated her age at between 12 to 14 and she was about 4 months preggo.

A while back on this forum I got blasted for something. I thought I would cut that person and the PETA and HSUS bashers a sweetheart deal. You talk the Americans into cutting back a little tiny bit on their rapacious destruction of our planet, say, consume a measly half million pounds of beef less every day, and I'll promise to never let our cog and dat act in a normal cog and dat like fashion ever again.

And while we are at it, since you have that kind of clout, let's take one tenth of one percent of the world's budget spent on war implements and feed and clothe all the needy children of the world. That budget should be more than adequate.

A while back some incredibly self deceiving bozos heard a mega dork presidential candidate blowing sunshine up their wazoos in the form of CHANGE! We will CHANGE all the bad thingies and make our country flying fabulous wonderful forever and ever! CHANGE WILL COME ABOUT.

Right. That much fertilizer would turn the Sahara into a teeming jungle. You utter and complete clowns. The one who blew that dung and all the ones that swallowed it. Change starts at the grass roots. Right at the bottom. Can we assume that all the PETA and HSUS bashers always take reusable bags when they go shopping? Always ride bikes whenever possible? Have the most energy efficient life styles possible?

Go right ahead and bash PETA and HSUS and any other organization you want. It's just the thing the Kochs and their ilk love. Keep the sheep arguing among themselves as they take away our future generations planet and give us back a toxic waste dump.

We already know the government is ineffective. Quit deluding yourselves. It's not a democracy any more and you can shove that denial. It's an oligarchy, plain simple and straight forwards. The last presidential candidate that came close to holding the people as first and foremost was Ralph Nader and you saw just how far you deluded poop heads helped him go.

PETA more than any other animal rights operation took the words vivisection and wound laboratories out of the closet in the cellar, (behind the door marked beware of the leopard), and brought them to the dinner table.

I found it hilarious recently, because I am a first degree Snark, when the McCarthy crap reared it's head once again. Obama=Socialist! BEWARE. News flash you indoctrinated morons! The most functional operations of your government are all socialist. The infra structure. The police and fire departments. Your Social (in)Security. Oh holy bejeezus did the scam and schemers get mileage out of the great red threat horror stories, years after it died. As Andy Rooney once said, “There never was a great red threat. I've been to the bathrooms in Moscow.”

And so Americans and others of the modern first world, Greed and Gluttony Inc. moan and wail and snivel, as long as they don't have to give up the tiniest of their personal comforts and luxuries, and can continue to bash their favorite gripe. A couple of darling gals a while back, Katrina and Sandy, gave you a stern wake up call. And what did you do? The ones that weren't too busy basking in Koch like backsides went screaming to their dysfunctional government to do something for them!

Dang but the big money loves to hear the moron masses sniveling and bitching, tearing at each other that their favorite cause is wonderful and everyone else is full of poop. That's as funny as some of us natives and our quaint seven generations doctrine. It's a wonderful bit of irony that we, the progeny of the victims of American genocide are observing. The quasi religious hypocrites went plopping their houses of worship all over our reservations and now we are slowly reclaiming our inheritance, putting houses of worship of modern man, casinos, on our little allocated plots and buying back what is rightfully ours to begin with. Got to love life's little ironies. That's along the lines of one mega successful businessman who put his money where his mouth is. The U.S. Gov couldn't stand that and sued him. Bad Mr. Gates. Why can't you be like the other a-holes and just quietly shaft everyone in sight in the proper prescribed manner?

“Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends. So glad you could attend, step inside step inside. There behind the glass is a real blade of grass. Be careful as you pass, move along, move along.” E.L.P. Carn Evil 9.

Well folks. You dug and are digging this sewage pit, crapping in it as you go down. Now, would it be too much to ask to get some positive outlooks and thinking, and just maybe, some objectivity and suggestions now and then as to what could be beneficial? What others are doing that is beneficial and suggestions to them as to what they could do to improve their operations?


Addendumb. As for that loathsome nasty slut I met this morning, it's shame we can't move her to, say, Texas. Where the self righteous rectal religious can yell at her she should have put an aspirin between her knees and it's some fantasy guy in the sky's will she pop that baby out, or die trying, then put it up for adoption and head across the border where she can find employment lying on her back.

 

[Stirmi]

Snark, I'm not against conservation in fact I'm very pro conservation I think it is extremely important and without it the world will go down a relatively short awful path that will only end with poverty and death. However I'm saying PETA is a very poor organization and are not ethical or realistic on how to get there goals and those goals themselves, for example PETA wants people to stop eating meat but we are hard wired today meat as we have done throughout evolution, so to try an "persuade people" they organize attacks on meat markets. There are organizations out there who I feel are doing a good job such as the EPA because they are trying to get a balance of good industry and enviornmental protection. As for your take on the us political system, you don't even live in the us so how are you such an "expert" frankly your word means nothing because your just another extremist it seems who think they know everything and feel the need totalk down to people who don't share the same views. As for the girl and your texas remark, I laughed at how stupid it was, I have many relatives in texas and know many people and truthfully the liberal media try's to make them sound bad when in all honesty they are nicer than any northerner out there and value what's important like family and friends instead of money, time etc like they do in the north where I'm from, giving the chance I'm moving down south, the remark just how your true ignorance is and truly shows how little you know about America snark an I will ask the moderators to close this thread because it's only going to spiral down from this point on with ignorant people here who try to act like they are all high and mighty when they don't know jack about America.

 

[The Snark]

Since it isn't painfully obvious to you by now, I'm a native American. Read what I wrote in several postings, not just selectively skim and grab pissy little things to get in a snit about. Read my profile. Try doing a little bit of research. Your knee jerk reactions make me gag.

And while were on the subject, please list for the edification of all, each and every one of your daily news information sources. I spoke in generalities, and you dig for the dirt. Did you really want me, as an example, to cite all the recent ridiculous legislation that the state of Texas is now foisting? That's one long long ugly list. They certainly aren't the only ones but they are exemplary.

Upon reflection, the moderators should consider shutting this thread down, but of course that is their decision based upon their wisdoms and choices. But the ground that I would cite for closing this thread is that you are trolling, and started this thread in that light. However, a whole lot of people have contributed a number of very worthy insights here, and I don't think that you having a tantrum should stifle them and their contributions.

 

[advan]

Mod Note

Keep the debate civil. Everybody has an opinion and because this is a public forum, they will express it.

Foul language does not help your side of the debate, please refrain from using it. Any more and infractions will be handed out.

 

[gloost]

Yawn. Again... people yawping out existential angst defending this or that politically correct tosh...in the time it took you to type your silly angry essays, the world didn't change 1 bit for the better, and all you got was that little bit closer to a heart attack, or drowning in the tepid drool of self-righteous impotence.

 

[Malhavoc's]

Yawn. Again... people yawping out existential angst defending this or that politically correct tosh...in the time it took you to type your silly angry essays, the world didn't change 1 bit for the better, and all you got was that little bit closer to a heart attack, or drowning in the tepid drool of self-righteous impotence.

The world may not of changed by the Snark typing out his essay, However. I have now read it, You have now read it, so have countless others. It is up to us what we do with it, but I find those that take the soap box, are those at least trying to make change. I do not think anyone should ever be condemned for expressing themselves, as we are all individuals entitled to our own views, thus is the American freedom of speech, no?

HSUS and PETA have been in a lot of trouble lately, My question is, with the growing negative PR and public reception, what will be the next entity to take their place?

 

[Galapoheros]

People are people, I think it's advancing technology that makes it easy to express the worse in people today. The Snark rant reminds me of this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7W0Nm8iHwk "Science like nature must also be tamed" I plan to get back to nature. Yesterday I cut wood for a stove I heat the house with, got hungry and ate pomegranates from my back yard that I didn't have to buy from somebody else, what a good feeling was to me ....oh yeah, staying on topic, PETA sucks! hahaha.

 

[The Snark]

The world may not of changed by the Snark typing out his essay, However. I have now read it, You have now read it, so have countless others. It is up to us what we do with it, but I find those that take the soap box, are those at least trying to make change. I do not think anyone should ever be condoned for expressing themselves, as we are all individuals entitled to our own views, thus is the American freedom of speech, no?

HSUS and PETA have been in a lot of trouble lately, My question is, with the growing negative PR and public reception, what will be the next entity to take their place?

MMMMMMPH!!!! Err, you didn't happen to mean condemned instead of condoned, did you? :sarcasm:

I've been exchanging emails with a PETA rep for several months now. I've tried to (believe it or not) politely point out they aren't making a whole heck of a lot of friends in certain circles. From what I have gleaned of their replies, they seem to think life is a bed of roses at this time. Interesting, the different takes and viewpoints. My other gripe with them is the convenience factor. People, especially celebrities, sign on to operations like PETA instead of putting out effort to do it on their own. I had a very kind letter from the actress Daryl Hannah a while back. That is her gripe as well. Her environmentalism efforts are definitely worth keeping an eye on.

 

[Thistles]

The WHO facts pretty much say it all. An estimated 200 million stray dogs in the world today and 55,000 human deaths every year from rabies. Yet let the word get out you put down stray animals, regardless of how humanely, you are going to get flamed from many quarters.

There are around 70 million feral cats in the US and 80 million in homes. There are also 7 dogs and cats born per human born daily in the US. Where are the animals going to go? The solution is to stop breeding, keep sterilizing and, unfortunately, keep euthanizing. I love the animals, but the millions annually dying in shelters and on the streets are enough motivation for me to give up having pets. Even if it meant I couldn't own pets it would absolutely be worth it to me to see legislation prohibiting breeding dogs and cats or even forbidding any pet ownership. This minimizes suffering and destruction. How selfish would I be if I could condemn millions to suffer and die so I can have them in my home? This is not even mentioning the environmental damage they do. Some of the most important work done in the Galapagos islands, which are some of the most pristine environments left, was extermination of introduced donkeys, goats, pigs, dogs, cats and rats. Not all the islands are back to how they used to be, but they've cleared a few. There's a beneficial hunt for those of you looking for a thrill kill. Hilarious how those who are defending hunting are decrying an organization that is euthanizing surplus destructive "pets."

Snark, I'm not against conservation in fact I'm very pro conservation I think it is extremely important and without it the world will go down a relatively short awful path that will only end with poverty and death. However I'm saying PETA is a very poor organization and are not ethical or realistic on how to get there goals and those goals themselves, for example PETA wants people to stop eating meat but we are hard wired today meat as we have done throughout evolution, so to try an "persuade people" they organize attacks on meat markets. There are organizations out there who I feel are doing a good job such as the EPA because they are trying to get a balance of good industry and enviornmental protection...

...I will ask the moderators to close this thread because it's only going to spiral down from this point on with ignorant people here who try to act like they are all high and mighty when they don't know jack about America.

You got chewed out so now you want the thread closed? You started all this! Snark's already dealt with you handily, but I'll throw in my $.02. Trying to find places to cut this off was a bear. Use a period now and then.

It is impossible to be a conservationist and still advocate eating meat. Farming animals for food is one of, if not THE, most destructive thing we do to the environment. We are not "hard wired" to eat meat. You are culturally brainwashed into thinking you need it. It's bad for you, bad for the environment, bad for other people and certainly bad for the animals. Use that amazing BRAIN evolution has gifted you with and make a cost/benefit analysis. Seriously. Do some research on it and don't just defend what you WANT to do.

As for the EPA doing a good job... lol.

 

[BobGrill]

Why do people have to get so pissy about this topic? I think the thread should be closed as well, because obviously people here can't accept the views of others and have to resort to making personal attacks. Remember, accepting someone's opinion is not the same as agreeing with it.