PETA and HSUS

[The Snark]

Peta is a terrorist organization. They have used violence on several occasions to attempt to intimidate people.
One person, Ray coronado, was paid to bomb buildings by Ingrid newkirk, and even worse, went to campuses nationwide, teaching students how to make incendiary devices.
Despite actual evidence directly linking them to several arsons and instances of assaults, they still get away with these horrific acts. The corporate media is protecting them, often portraying PETA positively, generally only publicizing instances where deluded washed-out actresses either Being naked for the sake of animal welfare (lolwut), or wearing ridiculous bikinis made of lettuce, ignoring the instances of brutality and bombings.
They virtually never talk about the walk-in freezers, or the killing of animals, or the times where peta supporters viciously assault people buying meat. And when they DO, Ingrid newkirk is never mentioned. Hmmmm..
The ASPCA should be added to this discussion, as they're another horrible group, also known for misleading the public into thinking their donations will go to shelters, when they definitely do NOT.

Your posting is exemplary of deliberate and accidental inaccuracies. I had come to think of you as an authority of natural history, re: spiders, but a posting like that casts you, and all you have posted, in a somewhat dimmed light. I thought you above smear campaigns and propaganda.
BTW, his name is Rodney.

---------- Post added 10-28-2013 at 06:06 AM ----------

In my odd way I have been trying to tone down this thread... and have failed miserably. However, this wholesale bashing with a LOT of unfacts , quoting innuendo as fact, and so on, is really unbecoming to a lot of what AB has given to the public. It, this thread and similar ones, is beginning to stink like the smear campaign that the logging proponents and the FBI undertook against Earth First! in the entirely fabricated cases against Judi Bari and Darryl Cherney.

Would it be too much to ask that further postings be constrained to known established facts with references cited?

 

[Thistles]

Opinions, theories, it's obvious which you believe, no reason to elaborate on it. I'll nibble on the bait but will get loose from arguing which is correct because it's like arguing over religion and politics at this point which is interesting to do ...sometimes. My opinion is that we are omnivores. Each could look around and come up with contradicting info on this topic.

I was afraid you were going to go Creationist on me, which is why I asked for clarification. I am not going to dispute that humans have been eating meat in some quantity for hundreds of thousands of years, but the fact is that this is an extremely short period of time in evolutionary terms. If someone is starving, of course the addition of meat will improve their health (even deer will eat meat in the dead of winter with no other food source.) This does not mean it is an ideal diet, however. If you want to leave it, fine, but I'm happy to discuss it.

 

[kellakk]

Vegetarian Ancestors?

I am not going to dispute that humans have been eating meat in some quantity for hundreds of thousands of years

Actually, millions of years.

http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html

Anthropologists have long believed that the consumption of meat led to the development of culture. Also, scientists from different fields have found that meat provided the necessary calories and proteins for us to evolve larger brains.

http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
http://www.livescience.com/23671-eating-meat-made-us-human.html

Just wanted to clear that up. Of course, these are just theories, but all of science is anyway. These theories are pretty well-supported. I would post actual journal articles, but I don't have a whole lot of time.

However, I do agree that we no longer need meat in our diets. Agricultural advancements have allowed us to grow vegan/vegetarian foods that are nutritious enough to sustain us year-round.

 

[Thistles]

We need to define "human," then. Homo sapiens has only been around for 1-250 thousand years, depending on which scientist you ask. If we're talking about the whole genus Homo, ok, that's been around for 2-3 million years. That's still the blink of an eye in an evolutionary time frame. Thank you for links, though.

 

[kellakk]

Well, the development of Homo sapiens has everything to do with the other species in Homo, so they are relevant. And yes, 2-3 million years is a very short time. But we don't know everything about evolution, so we really can't dismiss any information about human evolution.

 

[Galapoheros]

I was afraid you were going to go Creationist on me, which is why I asked for clarification. I am not going to dispute that humans have been eating meat in some quantity for hundreds of thousands of years, but the fact is that this is an extremely short period of time in evolutionary terms. If someone is starving, of course the addition of meat will improve their health (even deer will eat meat in the dead of winter with no other food source.) This does not mean it is an ideal diet, however. If you want to leave it, fine, but I'm happy to discuss it.

Haha, oh no, far from it, you especially won't catch me picking a side on that one, freed myself from the "authorities" years ago by seeing reality, that nobody knows the answer to that one, that's good enough for me. I have very strong life philosophies though like expressed in many religions but I leave it there at the ideas. Getting off track so I'll leave it there.

 

[The Snark]

Well, the development of Homo sapiens has everything to do with the other species in Homo, so they are relevant. And yes, 2-3 million years is a very short time. But we don't know everything about evolution, so we really can't dismiss any information about human evolution.

Well said.

 

[SamuraiSid]

We need to define "human," then. Homo sapiens has only been around for 1-250 thousand years, depending on which scientist you ask. If we're talking about the whole genus Homo, ok, that's been around for 2-3 million years. That's still the blink of an eye in an evolutionary time frame. Thank you for links, though.

Well, the development of Homo sapiens has everything to do with the other species in Homo, so they are relevant. And yes, 2-3 million years is a very short time. But we don't know everything about evolution, so we really can't dismiss any information about human evolution.

Isnt this a moot tangent? What we are evolved to do and what we need to do to survive and thrive generally take a back seat to what we want to do. Which is eat steak and chicken nuggets.

 

[kellakk]

Sure, it's a moot tangent if you don't like discussing our origins as a species. But it's still fun to discuss, isn't it? Besides, a lot of the time what we want to do is limited by what we are evolved to do. I may want to breath underwater, but that doesn't mean I can. Anyway, I'm pulling it even further off track, so I'll stop now.

 

[The Snark]

Isnt this a moot tangent? What we are evolved to do and what we need to do to survive and thrive generally take a back seat to what we want to do. Which is eat steak and chicken nuggets.

The stuff the Darwin Award is made from.

 

[Thistles]

Well, the development of Homo sapiens has everything to do with the other species in Homo, so they are relevant. And yes, 2-3 million years is a very short time. But we don't know everything about evolution, so we really can't dismiss any information about human evolution.

Yes and yes and yes.

Haha, oh no, far from it, you especially won't catch me picking a side on that one, freed myself from the "authorities" years ago by seeing reality, that nobody knows the answer to that one, that's good enough for me. I have very strong life philosophies though like expressed in many religions but I leave it there at the ideas. Getting off track so I'll leave it there.

Sorry, I know it's touchy. That's why I really wanted to get you to elaborate before I went in for the kill. Thanks for being a good sport.

Isnt this a moot tangent? What we are evolved to do and what we need to do to survive and thrive generally take a back seat to what we want to do. Which is eat steak and chicken nuggets.

Also yes and yes and alas.

Again, sorry I'm dull. I've had pretty much the worst week ever. *dramaaa*

 

[Galapoheros]

That slightly related topic isn't touchy to me, but it sure is to a lot of people. I simply don't argue with anyone over it because I don't know, and nobody else does either, very liberating, esp. from religious authority. To go other places is to start a journey based on blind faith. I'm just not that kind of person.

 

[The Snark]

Haha, oh no, far from it, you especially won't catch me picking a side on that one, freed myself from the "authorities" years ago by seeing reality, that nobody knows the answer to that one, that's good enough for me. I have very strong life philosophies though like expressed in many religions but I leave it there at the ideas. Getting off track so I'll leave it there.

"I don't believe in any religion. I've got this crazy thing I do called thinking." George Carlin

 

[Smokehound714]

Your posting is exemplary of deliberate and accidental inaccuracies. I had come to think of you as an authority of natural history, re: spiders, but a posting like that casts you, and all you have posted, in a somewhat dimmed light. I thought you above smear campaigns and propaganda.
BTW, his name is Rodney.

---------- Post added 10-28-2013 at 06:06 AM ----------

In my odd way I have been trying to tone down this thread... and have failed miserably. However, this wholesale bashing with a LOT of unfacts , quoting innuendo as fact, and so on, is really unbecoming to a lot of what AB has given to the public. It, this thread and similar ones, is beginning to stink like the smear campaign that the logging proponents and the FBI undertook against Earth First! in the entirely fabricated cases against Judi Bari and Darryl Cherney.

Would it be too much to ask that further postings be constrained to known established facts with references cited?

Oh, my apologies, Ray is Rodney coronado's father (who is also a part of this) Penn and teller's <edit>! covers the whole issue, along with actual footage of Rodney showing students how to make bombs, and i'm not talking about flour-bombs. He's a member of the Earth-liberation-front, which is a known arsonist group, having torched several research labs, as well as setting SUV's on fire in public businesses.

Why go on a hunt for literature, when i can simply post this image?:



I'm a fisherman. Do the math.

 

[The Snark]

Oh, my apologies, Ray is Rodney coronado's father (who is also a part of this) Penn and teller's <edit>! covers the whole issue, along with actual footage of Rodney showing students how to make bombs, and i'm not talking about flour-bombs. He's a member of the Earth-liberation-front, which is a known arsonist group, having torched several research labs, as well as setting SUV's on fire in public businesses.

Why go on a hunt for literature, when i can simply post this image?:



I'm a fisherman. Do the math.

You neglected to mention he owned up, took the rap on behalf of his family, and paid his dues. Your posting is pure recrimination.

You have your right to freedom of speech but I question you turning AB into a muck racking scandal sheet.

 

[Stirmi]

By your logic snark michael Vick owned up to his mistakes but does it make it right for what he has done?

 

[The Snark]

Dangerous waters ahead

Do we really want to go and drag out every criminal and criminal act committed on behalf of animals and the environment on these boards?

Some people, especially natives, are very passionate about the matters of animal abuse and environmental destruction. They have expressed themselves, their passion, in occasionally illegal ways. In the case of Roy and myself, and many other natives, we have a gigantic list of grievances that we do our best to put behind us even though the wrongs done in the past have not been fully answered to and the damage and destruction continues unabated in many quarters at this present time. We try to move on.

I would ask others to try and do the same.

 

[SamuraiSid]

http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/pets.aspx

I thought it was an interesting read, and will share a personal story from my wife (I dont FaceBook).

My wife is constantly adding photos of our herps. A Ball Python, Boa Constrictor and Savannah Monitor. One individual comments on every single photo, stating, "creepy" or "gross". And not in the cute way where people say gross then get in closer for a better look. This same individual posted a picture of her miniature dog wearing a devil costume for Halloween.

What I gather about PETA and their wish to ban all pet ownership is that many people dont purchase animals for the pleasure of owning and caring for animals. They buy them as accessories, or as dolls to be dressed up. I know plenty of people who own dogs and cats because they grew up with them in the house and its considered "normal". How many people have you seen who have never attempted any sort of dog training, but then hit or yell at their dog for "acting out". Ive said it before, and Ill say it again. It is my belief that 9 out of 10 animal owners lack the responsibility and respect necessary to properly care for a living thing.

Even Pet Stores treat animals as commodities to be turned over as quickly as possible, and to this end they generally provide sub adequate care and care information. If these stores were to treat animals more humanely, refusing sales to inappropriate people for example, sales would go down. Employee salaries would go up as you'd have to properly educate them. These companies could not survive within our society as it currently stands.

A very similar argument could be made about the cattle industry which I believe is the #1 opponent for animal rights. But if these cows had rights and were treated humanely, prices would skyrocket and people would complain. Unfortunately these issues take a back seat to big bucks. I highly suggest reading, "The Omnivores Dilemma" by Michael Pollan. Which takes you through the history of the American Agricultural Industry. IIRC, it was during the depression of the 1930's which saw government doing everything in their power to make meat more affordable to the masses.

Calling them a terrorist organization is truly unfair. This is the same kind of thinking that paints all muslims with the same post-9/11 brush.


I cannot support any organization which believes in legislation over education. While I dont agree, I can kind ofunderstand PETA's pov. But by their logic everything from alcohol, to driving to politicians should be banned:sarcasm:

 

[Stirmi]

Interesting points except IMO with dealing with 10+ rescues and thousands of exotic pet owners I've talked to over the years only about 1/10 people don't care or are buying them irresponsibly and your saying it isn't fair to blame all Muslims for te 911 attack but is it fair to blame gun owners because of a few irresponsible people or a few irresponsible pet owners I punish everyone. IMO the only animal that should be heavily regulated would be dogs and cats because they are so invasive and bad or the environment contrary to any exotic will ever be. And while PETA isn't a terrorist organization there have been cases involving member assaulting people. And recently members of PETA were found dumping the bodies of dead puppies and kittens in trash cans

 

[SamuraiSid]

Experiences vary and I would love to meet some locals who truly care about the pets they own, instead of simply being passionate. Just my opinion, but I think your a lucky guy to know so many good people.

I certainly dont blame guns or all gun owners for gun violence. I suppose sometimes gun violence could be associated with how the children are raised. Acording to wikipedia Michael Vick grew up where dog fighting was the norm. So when he came into money he decided to get into the "business" for himself. By no means am I trying to defend his actions, but perhaps his actions are part of a larger cultural issue of ignorance. Opposed to pointing the finger at Vick, which has already been done, Im left wondering what kind of world we live in where anyone thinks its ok for kids to be involved in such an activity. As an adult you could argue that he should be mature enough to know its wrong, but social programming is a powerful agent, and there isnt enough awareness about animal cruelty to change someones point of view. Especially someone who grew up with adults telling children dog fighting is cool.


I would be very interested in hearing what happened to the PETA members found dumping bodies in trash cans. Im willing to bet the PR said something along the lines of, "We are currently looking into it" and thats the end of the story.