People that handle their hot T's

[Hamburglar]

I've always preferred the "pet fish" view on handling spiders. Pretty to look at , no need to handle.

Later, Tom

I couldn't help but think of the relatively new aquarium that was built in our area. They have a "petting tank" where you can touch some of the critters in it. Even fish aren't safe anymore....

 

[phoenixxavierre]

I don't see at all how handling a tarantula is disrespectful to the tarantula. It's a bug, for Christ's sake. Nor do I see how it causes any harmful stress. I'm sure the shipping process is far more stressful than any handling. In the wild, these creatures deal with all manner of interaction with their natural environment, from wind, to other creatures trying to eat them or getting eaten by them. Some are even known to hang around human habitations, for example, some pokes in sri lanka are known to be underneath picnic tables, webbed up in their funnels, and no one knows the better until they go looking!

I've been handling critters that I keep since childhood. I've handled literally thousands of tarantulas of all sizes during the past decade plus, and been bitten only twice (possibly by the same spiderling, an L. parahybana spiderling two weeks young), and this was while separating 1500 spiderlings out from the mother's tank. Never been tagged by a big boy or girl. I handle less now than when I was younger, but I still do, for my own entertainment, and occasionally for others.

Tarantulas, like snakes, prefer to save their venom for their prey, and are more likely to deliver a dry bite or a bite with little venom than to waste it in self-defense when they're not even being harmed. The old worlders without urticating hair defense, or arboreals without poop shooting defense, are perhaps more likely to bite, however, I can't say that with any certainty as I've had some hairy new worlders that were downright unapproachable.

I started handling because of my first t, who was always wanting to come out and explore. He'd hang for hours on the edge of his tank, kicking his legs, trying to get out. So I obliged. He was one of the best pet rocks I've ever kept, and exquisitely creepy, long-legged black male with copper carapace. Just beautiful!

There's always a slight risk, but then there's probably a statistically stronger risk of getting in a car accident or misjudging one's own step and tripping, resulting in a broken bone or at least some broken skin. Anyways, I enjoy interacting with my t's and still do it at least once a month. In fact, I'm going to be placing a male P. fasciata with a female (of the same, of course) and I'm only looking partially forward to the transference experience, male to female's tank. Problem is, the male likes to hide most the time. P. fasciata, along with other pokes, have a particularly hot venom, akin to that of a black widow, which causes cramps, muscle spams, etc. Thank god they know the difference between their food and myself. Never been bitten by any adults or even juveniles yet, but I'll be sure to let you all know if I get tagged during the next fasciata breeding attempt. ;P

 

[Tremors]

If it was a G. pulchripes or a Curly Hair I could see handling it a bit, but this species?

I raise scorpions, P. transvaalicus, L.Q., A. mauretanicus...and I have never handled any of these animals. I have a detailed and rigid set of proceedures I use to feed them and clean and fix their cages, and outside of the babies, all the adults are under lock and key.

I know this is a Tarantula forum but I've seen this type of reckless behavior exhibited by scorpion keepers -

Case in point...For your approval...

Another Mensa candidate!

http://www.youtube.com/user/brandonjaeger#p/u/2/Q4fRHBMHveE

http://www.youtube.com/user/brandonjaeger#p/u/0/ybvYasFcMGY

 

[dannyboypede]

I don't see at all how handling a tarantula is disrespectful to the tarantula. It's a bug, for Christ's sake. Nor do I see how it causes any harmful stress. I'm sure the shipping process is far more stressful than any handling. In the wild, these creatures deal with all manner of interaction with their natural environment, from wind, to other creatures trying to eat them or getting eaten by them. Some are even known to hang around human habitations, for example, some pokes in sri lanka are known to be underneath picnic tables, webbed up in their funnels, and no one knows the better until they go looking!

I've been handling critters that I keep since childhood. I've handled literally thousands of tarantulas of all sizes during the past decade plus, and been bitten only twice (possibly by the same spiderling, an L. parahybana spiderling two weeks young), and this was while separating 1500 spiderlings out from the mother's tank. Never been tagged by a big boy or girl. I handle less now than when I was younger, but I still do, for my own entertainment, and occasionally for others.

Tarantulas, like snakes, prefer to save their venom for their prey, and are more likely to deliver a dry bite or a bite with little venom than to waste it in self-defense when they're not even being harmed. The old worlders without urticating hair defense, or arboreals without poop shooting defense, are perhaps more likely to bite, however, I can't say that with any certainty as I've had some hairy new worlders that were downright unapproachable.

I started handling because of my first t, who was always wanting to come out and explore. He'd hang for hours on the edge of his tank, kicking his legs, trying to get out. So I obliged. He was one of the best pet rocks I've ever kept, and exquisitely creepy, long-legged black male with copper carapace. Just beautiful!

There's always a slight risk, but then there's probably a statistically stronger risk of getting in a car accident or misjudging one's own step and tripping, resulting in a broken bone or at least some broken skin. Anyways, I enjoy interacting with my t's and still do it at least once a month. In fact, I'm going to be placing a male P. fasciata with a female (of the same, of course) and I'm only looking partially forward to the transference experience, male to female's tank. Problem is, the male likes to hide most the time. P. fasciata, along with other pokes, have a particularly hot venom, akin to that of a black widow, which causes cramps, muscle spams, etc. Thank god they know the difference between their food and myself. Never been bitten by any adults or even juveniles yet, but I'll be sure to let you all know if I get tagged during the next fasciata breeding attempt. ;P

I sincerely hope the bold statement is not the death of this thread, however I think it may be.

If tarantulas save their venom for prey, why is it that the majority of bite reports include "I saw clear liquid come out of one (or both) of the holes," (or some other variation including the sight of clear liquid) and the victim experiences symptoms of a "wet" bite? These same bite reports also clearly state that the tarantula was acting defensively.

--Dan

 

[Formerphobe]

What Tom said about the pet fish view... I have handled most of my Ts on rare unpacking, re-housing or molt assist occasion, but I don't make a habit of it.

I have only one 'hot' T, an OBT. Ironically, I have spent more 'time' handling this particular T than any of the others. It was small enough at the time for any potential bite to be of little consequence. It was an unplanned unpacking incident/accident... and won't be happening again anytime soon.

Strokes, folks. Some people like the thrill they receive, or the shock value it causes others. Other people may be comfortable enough that it is second nature to them. I'm comfortable with handling large aggressive dogs. Not to 'breed profile', but I'd take on a room full of Pit Bulls over a single Pokie any day.

 

[BigJ999]

All of all the scorpians the guy could handel yesh A deathstalker really bad bad choice to handel. I don't handel my hot T's because most of them will bite sooner then be held.

 

[Rob1985]

Sooo... I can summarize that we're 50/50 on handling certain species. By handling a defensive and fast species you take the risk of being bit. If bit, others also reserve the right to say "told ya so".

 

[phoenixxavierre]

I sincerely hope the bold statement is not the death of this thread, however I think it may be.

If tarantulas save their venom for prey, why is it that the majority of bite reports include "I saw clear liquid come out of one (or both) of the holes," (or some other variation including the sight of clear liquid) and the victim experiences symptoms of a "wet" bite? These same bite reports also clearly state that the tarantula was acting defensively.

--Dan

Well, aren't you self-righteous? ;P

That would be a question only you could answer, mate, but I can tell you this, that even though I haven't been bitten but by two spiderlings, I have been stung by a few scorpions, and yes I have handled some hot scorpions, not many though, as well as the offspring of large centipedes, and some medium size 'pedes, and been bit by them as well, not to mention bees and spiders, the latter of which I've been bitten by multiple times, and witnessed both clearly, bites with the use of venom and "dry" bites. I don't imagine there is such a giant gap between use of venom between spiders and tarantulas. Are you saying that they are incapable of delivering a dry bite? Most of the bites I received from the other sources listed had to have been dry bites/stings or I would have suffered much more than I did.

I could also list how many times I've been bitten by rats, hamsters, mice, dogs, cats, snakes, birds, and I'm sure other things, not to mention people. And to be honest, I think that most of those are capable of far more damage than a tarantula. People get killed by their dogs on a surprisingly frequent basis, yet we don't go around saying "Feed that dog, but don't touch it! It could turn on you at any moment!" It's just that these critters are unfamiliar to us, more so than dogs. I think it's just as preposterous to be worried about handling a t as it would be for most to pet their dog. Granted, one is a mammal and the other isn't, still, more people have died from dog attacks, and how many from tarantulas? Exactly. Knowing that people are capable of murder doesn't stop me from wanting to be intimate with others. I don't know. I guess I just don't get it, beyond the initial reluctance programmed into most from millennium of misinformation, that initial slight arachnophobia that many people experience when they first come into the hobby.

 

[Blackbeard]

I think it comes down to either thrill seeking or some form dominance related behavior.

Surely it can be classified psycologicaly.
A friend of mine, he got me interested in T's actually, bought a single tarantula and it HAD to be expensive and have potent venom.
It turned out to be a P. Metallica at the time and I got the distinct association with a hooligan buying a pitbull just to show off because he kept going on and on about how potent the bite was and how much money it cost.

 

[phoenixxavierre]

I think of it more as a matter of personal preference, like the difference between crunchy and creamy peanut butter. And nothing is wrong with either way. It's a personal choice. Scorning or shaming people because they handle their tarantulas (or don't handle them) is no different than someone shaming or scorning you for any other personal choice you might make as an adult. Sure, you can get diseases from particular behaviors, and there is that risk, but guess what, people do it anyway. Why some do and why some don't? There are as many reasons as there are people.

 

[astraldisaster]

People get killed by their dogs on a surprisingly frequent basis, yet we don't go around saying "Feed that dog, but don't touch it! It could turn on you at any moment!" It's just that these critters are unfamiliar to us, more so than dogs. I think it's just as preposterous to be worried about handling a t as it would be for most to pet their dog. Granted, one is a mammal and the other isn't, still, more people have died from dog attacks, and how many from tarantulas? Exactly. Knowing that people are capable of murder doesn't stop me from wanting to be intimate with others.

It's not even remotely the same thing. Unlike a spider, a dog has the capability of forming an attachment to humans, of perceiving us as a source of food, fun, play, comfort, etc. Sure, it would be unwise to pet a dog whose background you don't know, or that is showing signs of aggression. However, it's pretty rare for a friendly dog that doesn't have aggression issues and has been treated well by humans its entire life to just "turn on people," especially its owner. Same with humans. Unless the people I'm close with are secretly sociopaths, I don't think I have to worry about being murdered by them.

I guess I just don't get it, beyond the initial reluctance programmed into most from millennium of misinformation, that initial slight arachnophobia that many people experience when they first come into the hobby.

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with handling your potentially dangerous Ts, if you're experienced and willing to take the risk. I'm not saying I'll never ever attempt to handle a pokie. But I doubt those in the hobby that prefer to abstain are at all arachnophobic...seems more like a healthy respect for the nature of these creatures (and the potency of their venom) to me.

 

[Mojo Jojo]

I should note that the opinion that I'm conveying in this post is in regard to tarantulas only. I have yet to read of a tarantula envenomation that resulted in human related death and/or anaphylaxis.

With this in mind, I'd much rather see a thread about someone that handles a hottish tarantula with respect than a person that handles a rosie without any.

 

[Fran]

I could also list how many times I've been bitten by rats, hamsters, mice, dogs, cats, snakes, birds, and I'm sure other things, not to mention people. And to be honest, I think that most of those are capable of far more damage than a tarantula. People get killed by their dogs on a surprisingly frequent basis, yet we don't go around saying "Feed that dog, but don't touch it! It could turn on you at any moment!".

How can someone make such a silly...Observation??


How can you compare an animal such a dog; mamal,domesticated for thousands of years, with a tarantula??

Didnt you really see the nonsense of your comment while you were typing it??
Im not being sarcastic, Im absolutely serious.

It is not about the size of the damage at all, I dont think you are quite getting it.
Before humans were buying Yorkshire to take them to the Puppy-saloon, we were using those dogs for hunting, getting ridd of pests, using them for work and daily living activities. They were domesticated by necessity for over thousands of years.

You dont get quite the point. Is not about the exotic of the animal... Its about the stupidity of exposing yourself and your family to an unnecessary risk.

Let me give you an example; There are people whos job is to fix TV-Radio Antenas working all day at 2000 feet, and there are kids who climb up contruction cranes at 2000feet...For the hell of it.
Is the guy whos job is climbing a 2000feet metal pole stupid? NO.
Are the kids stupid? Yes they are. Why? Because the risk is way greater that the benefict you get from it. (If any at all) .
Thats what we, ( at least me ) are pointing out.

Someone menctioned Steve Irwin. Why? Because he did many crazy things with animals? Because he died the way he did?
He had a very important purpose, and a very noble one. He was a huge conservationist contributor, he worked all his life on research of wild life and he did what he did as a living.

You cant possibly compare him or anyone like him with a stupid kid handling a Phoneutria.

Hey, its your life, live it as you wish...But dont expect to be stupid-proof while doing it..Cos you might just be stupid.

 

[Mojo Jojo]

I'm pretty sure the Steve Irwin comment was an attempt at trolling.

 

[BCscorp]

I'm pretty sure the Steve Irwin comment was an attempt at trolling.

I'm pretty sure it was an attempt to see if any of the nay-sayers like Steve Irwin in regards to how he handled dangerous animals. If any of them watched Steve and liked his show, I can't see why they would have a problem with this guy. He seems to know what he is risking to himself and the spider, so if that's what he chooses to do....
If it seemed trollish on my part, put it down to my lack of communication skills, and I meant no disrespect to Steve Irwin, there is no comparison other than the one I made.

 

[Mojo Jojo]

Touché.

Apparently I have to write more than Touché in order to post a reply, so I'm writing this sentence about having to write more than Touché in order to post a reply.

 

[jgod790]

I personally think its pretty cool/fun to handle tarantulas, how ever I would never handle an OBT, species or a Haplopelma Lividum, and probably not even a T Blondi. If you want to handle a T, stick to a G rosea or a Smithi or something along those lines.

 

[phoenixxavierre]

It's not even remotely the same thing. Unlike a spider, a dog has the capability of forming an attachment to humans, of perceiving us as a source of food, fun, play, comfort, etc. Sure, it would be unwise to pet a dog whose background you don't know, or that is showing signs of aggression. However, it's pretty rare for a friendly dog that doesn't have aggression issues and has been treated well by humans its entire life to just "turn on people," especially its owner. Same with humans. Unless the people I'm close with are secretly sociopaths, I don't think I have to worry about being murdered by them.

The principle is the same. 5 million people every year are bitten by their "faithful" pooches. 800,000 bites per year require medical attention. 1000 people go to hospital, emergency rooms for dog bite treatment every day. In the past couple decades, dog bites have gone up nearly 90%. Most of the victims were children or the elderly. 16 to 17000 people over 16 years of age were bitten while working. 2900 mail carriers are bitten every year. Dog bites are the 5th leading cause of hospital visits for children. Americans have a 1 in 50 chance of being bit each year. Deaths from dog-bites last year was 34. The rate has been rising.

And let me tell you something. People are people. I have known a number of people who given the chance would gladly murder a stranger just to see what the experience is like. You think you know someone? I've been surprised. Chances are, you would be too, if you really knew people. And that is the problem with sociopaths, even if you're really close, you may not recognize what lies deeper beneath the surface

I don't think there's anything "wrong" with handling your potentially dangerous Ts, if you're experienced and willing to take the risk. I'm not saying I'll never ever attempt to handle a pokie. But I doubt those in the hobby that prefer to abstain are at all arachnophobic...seems more like a healthy respect for the nature of these creatures (and the potency of their venom) to me.

True, however, many get into the hobby as a result of their facing their fears. And some keepers are actually afraid of their keeps. They don't handle nor do they want to because the idea scares them. Then others don't handle because they feel not doing so is respectful to the animal. I don't handle very often anymore. I used to. Nowadays, it's for necessity, such as breeding projects, or simply boredom, so I seek some interaction.

 

[Sleazoid]

let me exploit this winner... :wall:

[YOUTUBE]tX5h-IEBh08[/YOUTUBE]

Medicine man (at least that is what I knew him ass) has been in this hobby for quite some time. I know for almost about ten years now, if he even is in the hobby anymore. I don't know when that video was taken. He does know what he is doing, he is a complete douche but he isn't stupid. He has kept real hots, not just OW tarantulas. So maybe it isn't best to judge the guy before you know him yeah? He is very knowledgeable in the animal he keeps actually. If he handles or not is his decision, even if it is one I don't agree with, he can still do it.

I knew him a long time ago on a myspace forum called herpetology 101 or something like that. Had a lot of people, and he was one of the more knowledgeable ones, and not just when it came to herps.

Hahaha... that's my friend Mike. He lost a finger to a sidewinder bite recently. I'm sure you're shocked.

You still talk to him? Damn, I saw him on youtube one day and completely forgot about it until I saw his youtube username. I wonder how many other people are on here from that forum?

 

[phoenixxavierre]

How can someone make such a silly...Observation??


How can you compare an animal such a dog; mamal,domesticated for thousands of years, with a tarantula??

Didnt you really see the nonsense of your comment while you were typing it??
Im not being sarcastic, Im absolutely serious.

It is not about the size of the damage at all, I dont think you are quite getting it.
Before humans were buying Yorkshire to take them to the Puppy-saloon, we were using those dogs for hunting, getting ridd of pests, using them for work and daily living activities. They were domesticated by necessity for over thousands of years.

You dont get quite the point. Is not about the exotic of the animal... Its about the stupidity of exposing yourself and your family to an unnecessary risk.

Let me give you an example; There are people whos job is to fix TV-Radio Antenas working all day at 2000 feet, and there are kids who climb up contruction cranes at 2000feet...For the hell of it.
Is the guy whos job is climbing a 2000feet metal pole stupid? NO.
Are the kids stupid? Yes they are. Why? Because the risk is way greater that the benefict you get from it. (If any at all) .
Thats what we, ( at least me ) are pointing out.

Someone menctioned Steve Irwin. Why? Because he did many crazy things with animals? Because he died the way he did?
He had a very important purpose, and a very noble one. He was a huge conservationist contributor, he worked all his life on research of wild life and he did what he did as a living.

You cant possibly compare him or anyone like him with a stupid kid handling a Phoneutria.

Hey, its your life, live it as you wish...But dont expect to be stupid-proof while doing it..Cos you might just be stupid.

Spiders and tarantulas have coexisted along mankind for a very long time. Just because they're not on leashes in OUR country, doesn't mean they don't have a relationship with the natives. People have eaten tarantulas for a very long time, and they have eaten dog too. And there are loads and loads of folklore based on native observing spiders/tarantulas. The comparison is in the bite rate. The issue here is people handling hot ts, and the reason it is an issue is due to potential envenomation (the pain and discomfort involved). Dogs don't have venom, dogs are fuzzy and cuddly, dogs have four legs not eight, dogs are much bigger than a tarantula, dogs are sooo different. SO WHAT? The issue here we're talking about is getting bit due to handling. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my comparison. Where did you get your physics degree? cracker jack box? you ought to know that the real deal is in connections, not divisions. Sure, divisions help us to study things more closely, but the real deal is in connections, how everything is connected. If you really knew anything about physics it would show in your posts. You apparently just went through the motions without really thinking about the concepts involved.

Fran, don't you ever really think before you post comments or do you just see a comment you don't like and rather than giving it thought you attack it outright?? I think perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. Yes, it IS about exposing oneself to danger. When I was growing up, I knew a woman who was severely mauled by her faithful saint bernards. She had to have them put down. Now i love dogs but the truth of it is that we ALL know what dogs are capable of. For most people, dogs are unnecessary pets. We have them because we want them, not because we need them. And in having them, we are exposing ourselves to the same statistics as everyone else. We live with that chance that something could go terribly wrong. And it's every where we go, not just at home with our dogs or tarantulas, or up on a wind turbine, or crossing the street, it's everywhere. We take much larger risks on a daily basis.

So are you saying, Fran, that taking a risk is unacceptable unless there is a benefit to YOU? Well, you are entitled to see it the way you want.

Someone mentioned Steve Irwin (great man) because I used the word "mate".

Fran, in case you've forgotten, you were a "stupid kid" once too, and by the sounds of it, may still be. Why you feel the need to tell me to live my life as I see fit is beyond me. After all, it is my life, and it's not negatively effecting you, so why do you feel the need to give me "permission" to do as I please as if you have some authority to give permission? I don't need yours. All people are connected, but all people are individuals as well. It's what makes life beautiful. So live a little. Take some risks that aren't going to necessarily benefit you.

My myself, I take risks just breathing. It doesn't matter what we do in life, when our number is up, it's up. Doesn't matter how careful you are, or aren't. When that time comes, the fat lady sings, and nothing can stop that.