Pamphobeteus cf. antinous "Peru" - Female

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

This is a jet black tarantula with bloody red satea/bristles, a female that is always hungry ready to hunt.

 

[nicodimus22]

All the pamphos are out of my budget, but they look super cool.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

This gal as a sling was sold as P. antinous, once I posted photos of her on Facebook AB someone said that she was not the Bolivian but from Peru. Regardless is a female is about 4.25" to 4.75" inches.

 

[basin79]

Absolutely stunning.


I do know what I'm about to type makes me an absolute penis but just imagine if they where all black like a Grammostola pulchra.

That typed I shall have to keep looking at these pics as one of these may even knock a Grammostola pulchra off the top spot of my most desired T.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

I have an old photo of a female from Bolivia, she was at least 8" inches when I took a photo of her, she was stunning as well.

I'll be taking more photos of the one from Peru of each molt cycle that she'll eventually have.

I had a chance to buy another P. antinous but of course it's only label as P. antinous so who knows which one I would have gotten if I did purchase the sling, so I decided to pass and I'll wait until my female from Peru gets bigger before I make a decision what if I want to proceed of getting another in the future.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

She's bloody gorgeous.

And now I've "accidentally" ordered a sling

 

[efmp1987]

What are the subtle differences between the Bolivian antinous and those Peruvian cf. antinous?

 

[efmp1987]

I wonder if cf. antinous is actually P. grandis (found in Iquitos, Peru).

 

[c.h.esteban]

most (all) of the so called "antinous" from iquitos / peru can distinguished from grandis by coloration of the male, thickened femur and morphology of the bulb.
the bulb should also distinguished from P antinous.

 

[boina]

most (all) of the so called "antinous" from iquitos / peru can distinguished from grandis by coloration of the male, thickened femur and morphology of the bulb.
the bulb should also distinguished from P antinous.

What distinguishes P. antinous from Bolivia and P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru? Are they likely different spdeies? I know most of the antinous in Europe are cf. antinous from Peru.

I've a WC P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru (definitely AF) and it's small for a Pampho and has no red hair at all. Is that typical for the Peru variant? Do only the real P. antinous from Bolivia have red setae on the abdomen? Do all antinous have thicker femurs? I can't compare bulbs because mine is female.

I know most of the antinous in Germany are cf. antinous from Peru and don't have red setae.

 

[efmp1987]

What distinguishes P. antinous from Bolivia and P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru? Are they likely different spdeies? I know most of the antinous in Europe are cf. antinous from Peru.

I've a WC P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru (definitely AF) and it's small for a Pampho and has no red hair at all. Is that typical for the Peru variant? Do only the real P. antinous from Bolivia have red setae on the abdomen? Do all antinous have thicker femurs? I can't compare bulbs because mine is female.

I know most of the antinous in Germany are cf. antinous from Peru and don't have red setae.

On the contrary from what I've read so far the Bolivian antinous are those specimens without or have little setae, while those from Peru possess these hairs. I have to re-check my facts, could be the other way around. But IMO (which amounts to nothing LOL) they are just regional variants, probably separated by a topographical or natural boundary e.g. a river or a mountain range causing some form of divergence. Still important to separate them (e.g. not to cross-breed) to maintain what nature intended them to be and so retain genetic purity.

 

[boina]

On the contrary from what I've read so far the Bolivian antinous are those specimens without or have little setae, while those from Peru possess these hairs. I have to re-check my facts, could be the other way around. But IMO (which amounts to nothing LOL) they are just regional variants, probably separated by a topographical or natural boundary e.g. a river or a mountain range causing some form of divergence. Still important to separate them (e.g. not to cross-breed) to maintain what nature intended them to be and so retain genetic purity.

Yep, you are right, I just spent an hour reading up on it. There are some German forum posts claiming the Bolivian ones are smaller and more skittish... meaning mine is probably from Bolivia after all.

This is all a mess.

 

[Stella Maris]

I know the intention of this thread wasn't to ask a gajillion questions about Pampho. antinous, but since I am here...

I know there is a lot of controversy regarding the rare and elusive "chicken spider" (Pampho. "arana pollito"? (Sic))...would the "chicken spider" just be considered a different "form(?)" of Pampho. antinous or a sub-species of Pampho. antinous?

 

[efmp1987]

Yep, you are right, I just spent an hour reading up on it. There are some German forum posts claiming the Bolivian ones are smaller and more skittish... meaning mine is probably from Bolivia after all.

This is all a mess.

I'm yet to see something on the subspecies level. This sadly happens to an animal group kept followed closely by people, or have a following composed of hobbyists, enthusiasts or keepers - everything is elevated as a species. I find naming subspecies important as it allows one to connect the dots really by way of associating visible morphological characteristics rather than have multiple taxa bearing different names but look the same, which IMO is more confusing.

 

[efmp1987]

I know the intention of this thread wasn't to ask a gajillion questions about Pampho. antinous, but since I am here...

I know there is a lot of controversy regarding the rare and elusive "chicken spider" (Pampho. "arana pollito"? (Sic))...would the "chicken spider" just be considered a different "form(?)" of Pampho. antinous or a sub-species of Pampho. antinous?

No one can say for sure. But had it been me, I would simplify the taxonomy of this group. Someone might chime in who has had more experience dealing with this group and shed light on this matter.

 

[boina]

I'm yet to see something on the subspecies level. This sadly happens to an animal group kept followed closely by people, or have a following composed of hobbyists, enthusiasts or keepers - everything is elevated as a species. I find naming subspecies important as it allows one to connect the dots really by way of associating visible morphological characteristics rather than have multiple taxa bearing different names but look the same, which IMO is more confusing.

I want to do genetic testing on all tarantulas in the hobby, I "just" have to figure out the logistics and the financing.

(And the gene used for barcoding (COX1) is a mitochondrial gene, so we will only know the maternal line, but that may help. But I could do a proof of principal and see if I can get workable DNA from a molt, because I'm not harming a spider for this. Now, who wants to pay to have their spider's DNA tested? )

 

[efmp1987]

I want to do genetic testing on all tarantulas in the hobby, I "just" have to figure out the logistics and the financing.

(And the gene used for barcoding (COX1) is a mitochondrial gene, so we will only know the maternal line, but that may help. But I could do a proof of principal and see if I can get workable DNA from a molt, because I'm not harming a spider for this. Now, who wants to pay to have their spider's DNA tested? )

Please do . This group needs a remedy We just need finance. Who can donate?

 

[The Grym Reaper]

What distinguishes P. antinous from Bolivia and P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru? Are they likely different spdeies? I know most of the antinous in Europe are cf. antinous from Peru.

I've a WC P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru (definitely AF) and it's small for a Pampho and has no red hair at all. Is that typical for the Peru variant? Do only the real P. antinous from Bolivia have red setae on the abdomen? Do all antinous have thicker femurs? I can't compare bulbs because mine is female.

I know most of the antinous in Germany are cf. antinous from Peru and don't have red setae.

One of the breeders I've seen on FB used to have both P. antinous (Big Black) and P. cf. antinous Peru on his sales list.

I have no idea if the former is supposed to be the Bolivian antinous. When asked about the difference between the two he just said that the cf. antinous Peru was an unidentified Peruvian species.

Now, who wants to pay to have their spider's DNA tested?

What's the damage?

 

[boina]

What's the damage?

No clue yet. First I need to see that I can extract DNA from a molt (doing that next week, already talked my lab into trying it), than I need to check that this DNA is of good enough quality to sequence it and then I need to get that specific sequencing method running - it's a bit more developement and validation than people usually think. If all that works (lets say 6 weeks from now -IF it works) then we can talk.

 

[c.h.esteban]

1) What distinguishes P. antinous from Bolivia and P. cf. 'antinous' from Peru?
Are they likely different species?

over the years there were so many "antinous" in the pet trade, thats why there are no answer for those questions.

some of those "pet trade antinous" were identical to some "pet trade petersi".
others labled as "P. antionus BOLIVIEN" were identical with a species from colombia.

2) Do only the real P. antinous from Bolivia have red setae on the abdomen?

POCOCK just wrote; "...;some long foxy-red bristles on the abdomen and the legs.".
SCHMIDT determined this hairy butt as P. antinous...

...and also all the stuff from peru had "some" red bristles. mostly restricted on the posterior third of the abdomen.

3) Do all antinous have thicker femurs?
P. antinous should dont have it.
but some of the "pet trade antinous" have it and some not