Non-lethal venomous snakes?

[lizardminion]

I don't mind rear-fangs at all. As long as the snake can take down a live mouse- should the event ever occur in the first place- and it can't kill me.
Also, not a necessity, but I'd like to see one that is semi-arboreal or arboreal.

 

[Camden]

I don't mind rear-fangs at all. As long as the snake can take down a live mouse- should the event ever occur in the first place- and it can't kill me.
Also, not a necessity, but I'd like to see one that is semi-arboreal or arboreal.

Why are you so concerned with watching it kill a mouse? You can see that on the internet. There are so many more things to offer in a snake besides killing things. I wouldn't recommend you getting one if all you're interested in is it killing.

 

[lizardminion]

Why are you so concerned with watching it kill a mouse? You can see that on the internet. There are so many more things to offer in a snake besides killing things. I wouldn't recommend you getting one if all you're interested in is it killing.

I wouldn't feed it a live mouse unless I needed to. I just find it fascinating if it has the ability to. (because then it gives me the feeling of a snake eating more natural prey even though a mouse may be pre-killed)
I'm weird like that. :I

 

[catfishrod69]

Yes there are. I also have a pair of albino T. marcianus. Hoping the female pops some babies soon too.

There are some really awesome looking garters out there. http://www.albinogartersnake.com/pricing.htm

My favorite has to be his neon blue california red sided.

---------- Post added 03-30-2012 at 10:45 PM ----------

Feeding live mice and rats introduces parasites that a captive snake cannot fend off. Also a bite from a mouse or rat will get infected very badly. I seen some pics of a boa that had been bitten on the head by a rat. After 7 surgeries and over $1000, the snake barely made it.

I wouldn't feed it a live mouse unless I needed to. I just find it fascinating if it has the ability to. (because then it gives me the feeling of a snake eating more natural prey even though a mouse may be pre-killed)
I'm weird like that. :I

 

[pitbulllady]

Yes there are. I also have a pair of albino T. marcianus. Hoping the female pops some babies soon too.

---------- Post added 03-30-2012 at 10:45 PM ----------

Feeding live mice and rats introduces parasites that a captive snake cannot fend off. Also a bite from a mouse or rat will get infected very badly. I seen some pics of a boa that had been bitten on the head by a rat. After 7 surgeries and over $1000, the snake barely made it.

And let me interject what even a little mouse bite can do to a PERSON! I got bitten on the index finger several years ago by a mouse(not a rat, mind you)I was picking up by the tail to feed to one of my snakes that refused to eat pre-killed. The mouse turned and sank its teeth into my index finger, biting all the way to the bone, severing an artery and a lymph node in the inside of my finger. Trip to the ER at six am, stitches, antibiotics-hand swelled so fast that all my rings had to be cut off with bolt cutters at the hospital, so I lost those, too. Almost wound up losing my finger, and I experienced worse pain from this than from the Copperhead bite I'd gotten when I was nine. Also I had to scrub my own blood off the stucco ceiling later, since that's how far it actually squirted. Dead mice don't bite...people OR snakes. I won't even keep snakes that refuse pre-killed anymore.

There is absolutely no reason or excuse to feed live to a snake that will eat pre-killed. Even if you can't buy frozen rodents, it's not hard to kill a mouse before feeding it to a snake, so the claim "should the event ever occur in the first place" still translates, to ME, anyway-"I plan on feeding my snake just so I can watch it kill things". Even if you have to buy live mice, kill them or at least stun them before feeding to the snake.

pitbulllady

 

[lizardminion]

"should the event ever occur in the first place" means "if it was to ever happen" which translates to "it ain't happening".

What I was asking about was... What kind of non-lethal(to humans) venomous snakes naturally eats mice? (Seems I needed some extra sleep to throw out the right words.) I'm in no way going to feed it a live mouse (because it's in captivity and not the wild) and wouldn't bother with those filthy vermin.
Although, I do ask, what is the best way to pre-kill a mouse? (best being no bloody mess and easiest way to quickly kill it)

 

[cacoseraph]

i got a kingsnake from someone that swore it would only eat live adult mice... the snake has little scars from being bitten by the mice it was feeding on.

also, the mice never die clean. they suffer quite a bit on the way out, whether it is from venom or constriction. it seems somewhere between childish and sadistic to get off on it


edit:
uh yeah, i'm not really seeing why it needs to be venomous if you are feeding it f/t?

 

[catfishrod69]

Best way i have found, (even though i only did it once, and my red tail took frozen thawed the next time), was i took the mouse placed it in a walmart bag. Took it outside, gave it a quick smack onto a rock. Dead instantly. Most that happens is they bleed out their nose. But the bag contains everything.

"should the event ever occur in the first place" means "if was to even happen" which translates to "it ain't happening".

What I was asking about was... What kind of non-lethal(to humans) venomous snakes naturally eat mice. (Seems I needed some extra sleep to throw out the right words.) I'm in no way going to feed it a live mouse (because it's in captivity and not the wild) and wouldn't bother with those filthy vermin.
Although, I do ask, what is the best way to pre-kill a mouse. (best being no bloody mess and easiest way to quickly kill it)

---------- Post added 03-31-2012 at 04:42 PM ----------

Dang that really sucks. Wish i would have been the one to be bit by that mouse. He would have not liked the consequences.

And let me interject what even a little mouse bite can do to a PERSON! I got bitten on the index finger several years ago by a mouse(not a rat, mind you)I was picking up by the tail to feed to one of my snakes that refused to eat pre-killed. The mouse turned and sank its teeth into my index finger, biting all the way to the bone, severing an artery and a lymph node in the inside of my finger. Trip to the ER at six am, stitches, antibiotics-hand swelled so fast that all my rings had to be cut off with bolt cutters at the hospital, so I lost those, too. Almost wound up losing my finger, and I experienced worse pain from this than from the Copperhead bite I'd gotten when I was nine. Also I had to scrub my own blood off the stucco ceiling later, since that's how far it actually squirted. Dead mice don't bite...people OR snakes. I won't even keep snakes that refuse pre-killed anymore.

There is absolutely no reason or excuse to feed live to a snake that will eat pre-killed. Even if you can't buy frozen rodents, it's not hard to kill a mouse before feeding it to a snake, so the claim "should the event ever occur in the first place" still translates, to ME, anyway-"I plan on feeding my snake just so I can watch it kill things". Even if you have to buy live mice, kill them or at least stun them before feeding to the snake.

pitbulllady

 

[The Snark]

Just some thoughtses.
Rear fanged snakes operate pretty much like constrictors. Their envenomation takes place as they do the gulp thing. If you are interested in seeing a critter get whammed, get a hefty scorpion. That is much more visual than many snake bites. (Like a really warmed up small rattler... a 'WOW! Sure didn't see that one coming!!' thing)

If you want to see crazy antics, maybe we can talk Pittbulllady into doing another live mouse feeding accompanied by a video camera. Not making fun of you my dear. Getting an artery nicked and discovering our plumbing system runs under pressure is often quite startling. Worse is having some a-hole like me snip off those keepsake rings. (We usually use diagonal snips or a 'patient safe' ring cutter.) A narsty insult to injury. Sounds like you got a staph or pseudomona infection.

 

[pitbulllady]

Just some thoughtses.
Rear fanged snakes operate pretty much like constrictors. Their envenomation takes place as they do the gulp thing. If you are interested in seeing a critter get whammed, get a hefty scorpion. That is much more visual than many snake bites. (Like a really warmed up small rattler... a 'WOW! Sure didn't see that one coming!!' thing)

If you want to see crazy antics, maybe we can talk Pittbulllady into doing another live mouse feeding accompanied by a video camera. Not making fun of you my dear. Getting an artery nicked and discovering our plumbing system runs under pressure is often quite startling. Worse is having some a-hole like me snip off those keepsake rings. (We usually use diagonal snips or a 'patient safe' ring cutter.) A narsty insult to injury. Sounds like you got a staph or pseudomona infection.

I didn't get an infection at all, actually. The swelling occurred immediately, due to the combo of the severed lymph node and my allergy to rodent dander(which is partially comprised of dried saliva). I was put on massive doses of Cephlex at once, so I managed to avoid any infection. Seriously, with the exception of the arterial spurts to the ceiling, it was like being bitten by a fairly good-sized Rattler in terms of pain and swelling/discoloration. I would have known to remove the rings at once had it been a venomous snake that bit me, but I didn't think to do with it being a little mouse! Besides, the bleeding was scary enough to keep me so preoccupied with trying to get that under control that I really didn't think about anything else until my hand had already started to swell, really fast. I'm pretty tough, with all the bites, cuts and ouchies I've had over the years, a typical country gal, so for a little mouse to be able to do that much damage to ME really says something about what they can do to a small snake.
I've never fed any vertebrates to my scorpions, but my Asian Forest Scorpion female once snapped a Sharpie pen in half when I was using it to try to remove her babies, which had started eating on their own, just to make her point about how she felt about me doing that. It doesn't take too much imagination to figure out what those pinchers would have done to a small rodent skull. She wouldn't have even needed to use venom to get the job done.

pitbulllady

 

[lizardminion]

Not for show purposes. Just for the snake being labeled venomous. (not for showing off or anything, but just for the fascination of it)

 

[Thistles]

This doesn't seem to be an instance where the weight of others' experiences will make a difference. All the same...

1) Owning a hot snake is a huge inconvenience. You need to keep it locked down tightly! If it gets out it leads to
2) Bad publicity for the hobby.
3) A bite is very painful, even if it isn't lethal. Many, many venomous snakes have never caused a recorded human death, but there is nothing fun about venom rotting your hand off. That is definitely not worth the "fascination" of a red "!VENOMOUS!" label on the cage. Also note the "recorded" part of that. Until recently, Atheris squamigera was considered nonlethal to humans. Then 2 people died. Oopsie. Oh yeah, there is no AV for that species, either.
4) I work in a pet store, volunteer at a "museum" that really is more of a zoo and have my own mini-zoo in my home. I have been bitten by many different animals. The worst bite I have ever gotten was from a rat. It bit through my right thumb knuckle. I have seen snakes that had to be euthanized because of a prey item that chewed them down to the bone. Even if your feeding goes smoothly 100 times, you never know if the 101st try will end well. Animals are unpredictable.
5) Live prey hasn't been sterilized, either. Even if there is no bite, you never know what you are introducing to your snake.

We all know you're fibbing when you say you want to see it kill then would only feed live if you had to then uh yeah sorry would definitely never feed live. At least be honest in your intentions.

All of that said, if you are still going to get a venomous snake, do as The Snark suggests and get yourself the meanest harmless snake you can first. I have a children's python who wants my head on a platter and used to work with a northern water snake that nailed me EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I put my hand in that tank. I have gotten much faster! Every time you get bitten, tell yourself, "I could be dead right now, or else owe $10,000+ in medical bills." See how long the desire to have a snake with a different kill mechanism sticks around.

I am not saying that no one should keep venomous snakes, but I do think that they shouldn't be a casual undertaking by a novice keeper.

 

[The Snark]

YO! Heed her warning!!

And let me interject what even a little mouse bite can do to a PERSON! I got bitten on the index finger several years ago by a mouse(not a rat, mind you)I was picking up by the tail to feed to one of my snakes that refused to eat pre-killed. The mouse turned and sank its teeth into my index finger, biting all the way to the bone, severing an artery and a lymph node in the inside of my finger. Trip to the ER at six am, stitches, antibiotics-hand swelled so fast that all my rings had to be cut off with bolt cutters at the hospital, so I lost those, too. Almost wound up losing my finger, and I experienced worse pain from this than from the Copperhead bite I'd gotten when I was nine. Also I had to scrub my own blood off the stucco ceiling later, since that's how far it actually squirted. Dead mice don't bite...people OR snakes. I won't even keep snakes that refuse pre-killed anymore.

I was thinking this was an ultimate extreme incident, then some hours later the alarm bells went off. Mouse bite + lymph node + Keflex stat = Compromised immune system = potential cellulitus = Leptospirosis & friends. Let this be a warning to everyone handling rodents regularly. Even supposedly clean rodents can (and often do) carry several undetected bacteria as well as Hantavirus. Some of these nastys will survive being frozen. As a recipient of it once, I firmly assure you, you do not want cellulitus combined with a screwed up lymph system. Dr. A M Putate is just around the corner.
(Sure took me a while to add that one up. I'm getting old!!)


PS As for keeping hot snakes, I strongly advocate everyone go and see how professionals keep their animals. The padlocks or sophisticated positive latches, the secondary barriers and containments, emergency numbers in big numbers written on the walls next to the phone, back up experts simply on standby and on and on. I worked for a summer at a place that kept over 50 rattlers. Upon reflection, working in the reptile house was similar to the steps astronauts go through before space walks.

 

[burmish101]

I've had tiger rats chase mice across the room and they don't constrict they overpower their prey its neat. I would not suggest venomous to start with, as over the years of learning how to keep snakes mostly self taught, I have made many mistakes of course its a learning curve. I've even had my share of stitches from keeping large pythons while making errors during feeding time. IMO keep venomous when your experienced enough, I waited for years before I got my first rattler better be safe than end up maimed or dead.

 

[lizardminion]

Oh good heavens... Is there a (weak)venomous snake that could swallow a (pre-killed) full grown mouse? Garter snakes don't fit the bill. (It's either fish or I'm gonna have a hell of a time switching it to pinkie mice)
Which is why I asked if one naturally eats rodents. Just answer me that.
Something that contains some sort of venom (as do Garter Snakes!) that naturally will eat a mouse. (so I don't have to worry about it being a pain in the arse switching it to mice!)

 

[Nebulosa]

Hognose, Lyre, large night snake, Mangrove, etc.

 

[catfishrod69]

Garters are not hard to switch to mice. Mine take mice with gusto.

 

[lizardminion]

Do any naturally eat adult mice?

 

[catfishrod69]

Well i wouldnt know about that, but imagine they do.

 

[OphidianDelight]

Oh good heavens... Is there a (weak)venomous snake that could swallow a (pre-killed) full grown mouse? Garter snakes don't fit the bill. (It's either fish or I'm gonna have a hell of a time switching it to pinkie mice)
Which is why I asked if one naturally eats rodents. Just answer me that.
Something that contains some sort of venom (as do Garter Snakes!) that naturally will eat a mouse. (so I don't have to worry about it being a pain in the arse switching it to mice!)

How many different ways do you want these people to tell you the same thing?