New Balfori Communal housing recommendations

[jrh3]

Thanks for the discussion. Would you mind posting yours then? I have yet to see set ups that work long term where the groups are able to then produce successful new generations autonomously. And I know you say that for every failure there’s a ton of successes, and that may well be true, but myself I have just not seen that evidence so I can’t personally say that they do indeed work out well with a high degree of success and safely. I would love to be shown otherwise though!

You can look through @Blue Jaye posts and threads, lots of info on success and growth rates with balfoui communal. I have personally had 3 different communal with 100% success rate. The ones I kept separate didn't eat as good. They WILL share food, which is unusual for any other species. I would think anyone with a failed communal would post about it to help others, but you don't hear much about balfouri fails. Yes, there are some fails but we also have random deaths with solitary species.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

They WILL share food, which is unusual for any other species.

How many other species have been tried to be kept communally so that food sharing could be observed?

I don’t even know how anyone thought to try keeping M. balfouri in groups in the first place.

 

[jrh3]

How many other species have been tried to be kept communally so that food sharing could be observed?

I don’t even know how anyone thought to try keeping M. balfouri in groups in the first place.

None, because there has not been any other species that are shown to be successful.

I was against it at first also until I started reading all the success stories one after the other. So, I tested the theory and it worked.

My guess is it was probably due to the way the mother takes care of the babies and feeds them. as they grew older, observation shown interactions between them. They don't even need a crowded tank. You can put 5 slings in an enclosure, and they will all end up in the same burrow.

It's not farfetched either, there are communal spiders.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

How many other species have been tried to be kept communally so that food sharing could be observed?

I don’t even know how anyone thought to try keeping M. balfouri in groups in the first place.

I recal pokies were being tried a lot 10+ years ago as communals with a lot of disasters. Obt also tried I hear , not sure why or who started the M. balfouri craze of communals…

 

[Smotzer]

I recal pokies were being tried a lot 10+ years ago as communals with a lot of disasters. Obt also tried I hear , not sure why or who started the M. balfouri craze of communals…

Neoholothele incei were also tried many years back as they were said to be communal as well

 

[cold blood]

I have personally had 3 different communal with 100% success rate. The ones I kept separate didn't eat as good.

My experiences are the same. I had a fairly large communal...over time the males matured and were sent off.....which is almost certainly what would happen to a wild communal, as the desire to roam and search is strong in mature males. I also kept many solo, and they all were poor eaters, extremely slow growers and exceptionally reclusive....none of these things described the ones in the communal.

How many other species have been tried to be kept communally so that food sharing could be observed?

Lots...it seems over the years way too many species has been tried to be kept communally, none have success rates anywhere close to balfouri. Some that come to mind off the top of my head were;

Avics (many species), pokies (many species), incei, OBT, H. gigas, there was a guy trying it with G. pulchripes for goodness sake....you still hear H, gigas, incei and avic claims of communality all the time....I buy none of these claims as they lack the volume of evidence that is there with balfouri.

Neoholothele incei were also tried many years back as they were said to be communal as well

whenever I breed this species, the majority of people buying them do so with the idea of keeping them communally....which I do my best to talk people out of.

 

[Mike Withrow]

Neoholothele incei were also tried many years back as they were said to be communal as well

I was just about to bring that exact spider up. Richard Stewart did a podcast with a lady that has been keeping them communal for a long time and they discussed in depth about communals. I have to admit it was interesting to listen to, although it never did change my mind about attempting it again.

I made a post back in the spring about some true spiders I encountered and did some research on and I mentioned how close they were webbed up and the various ages there appeared to be and they seemed content.
I found out that they are actually pretty social but it's thought they are that way because of their breeding cycles and the survival rate with the young after mom lays a sack.

M.balfori is the tarantula that got me started in the hobby. I can't say I didn't meet specific parameters such as enclosure size,numbers of spiders ect ect. What I know is everything was going wonderful until they got to mature.

Also I don't use any social media like FB and whatever. Other than here and the other actual sites like BTS. So im probably limiting myself in a way as far as seeing a more broad range of keepers and their experience with this topic.

@jrh3. You said you had 100 % success? No having to remove a mature males? And they bred and the mom laid a sack and everything went fine? So my next question is. If they did breed and hatch out. Did you keep the same lot going and let them continue on breeding?

I'm not doubting you or anything so please don't take it that way. If I thought it was pure bs I'd be the first on here to call you out. You are one of the very few that I've seen say they had successfully done this and multiple times as well. I could go on for hours with questions about how you were able to achieve this.

You mentioned something about why people that has a failure doesn't mention anything to maybe help others out with theirs. Well my reason is pretty simple. I only observed one thing and that's a couple of the males constantly trying to mate with everything but maybe the loan springtail in that enclosure and one eventually got nailed. Other than that I don't have anything really conclusive because I just plain don't know. Like should there be a certain number to start with or the enclosure size or the ages to start with ect ect..

 

[cold blood]

You said you had 100 % success? No having to remove a mature males?

I dont think issues with mature males count against the communal. In a non-confined area, those would naturally move along to find other satellite groups as mature males naturally would want to do....this natural behavior would also prevent, or at least significantly limit inbreeding...the same reason we would want to remove males from a confined communal no matter the situation.

I hope blue jaye chimes in at some point, as she's been keeping balfouri communals (successfully) for 2 decades now....and many of them at a time... and she has made some incredible observations over the years. IMO her experiences are profoundly significant and more valuable than just a single communal observation like myself or many others could offer anecdotally.

 

[Mike Withrow]

Id love to read what they have to say. Ignorance I suppose on my part because I've not seen them on here or actually searched for many threads on this subject where they may have contributed something.

I've gotten so deep into Ornithoctoninae I seriously doubt I'll ever go back to doing anything other than keeping any of the "baboon" tarantulas. Id be a liar if I said it didn't cross my mind this morning when one of my girls was sitting out when I was feeding.

I still have a little itch left for it.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Id love to read what they have to say. Ignorance I suppose on my part because I've not seen them on here or actually searched for many threads on this subject where they may have contributed something.

I've gotten so deep into Ornithoctoninae I seriously doubt I'll ever go back to doing anything other than keeping any of the "baboon" tarantulas. Id be a liar if I said it didn't cross my mind this morning when one of my girls was sitting out when I was feeding.

I still have a little itch left for it.

Yeah I’m a big fan of pet rock species like lp, sadly chicken spider didn’t make it to the hobby .

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

How many Ts can I/you keep communaly

restricting space means territorial conflict over resources which typically results in cannibalism. keeping them in close proximity I am guessing is in denial of their basic biology, which is why the close quarters experiments fail. I've yet to see one work long term with adults with results...

arachnoboards.com

 

[jrh3]

Yeah I’m a big fan of pet rock species like lp, sadly chicken spider didn’t make it to the hobby .

Pamphobeteus sp. "Araña Pollito" ( chicken spider) is in the hobby. They are pricey, but you can find them now.