My slings like fishfood...

[Exo]

Hi, I'm pretty new to the boards, but not to Ts. I'm a biologist, and I think I've found a kid in sixth grade to do this study, with my help.

My daughter is slowly getting into Ts and is interested in a science fair project. Last year, she won school and county and placed in regionals for an experiment with her hedgehog. She set up a bike odometer on its wheel and logged how much it ran and and ate, relative to being bathed or not, every few days. She probably would have gone further, had it not been a one subject experiment, and her first time.

She's interested in doing this, as long as I help, especially with the handling. She's not comfortable handling Ts and I don't really want her messing with slings yet. I will pay the shipping if someone has available and is willing to send me some fast growing, hardy, cheap Ts, like OBTs.

I propose the following treatments, at least 4-10 slings (depending on availability) per treatment. All set up in identical enclosures:

Treatments:
1) Insects only - mainly crickets
2) Alternate insects with flake food/frozen bloodworms
3) Flake/frozen bloodworm only

Record:
1) Min/max temperature of room with slings (weekly)
2) When food offered, amount/qty and when/if accepted
3) Date of molts, size of molts
4) Mortality, if any
5) Relative size estimates

If this plan sounds good, the study would require 12-30 slings. I'd prefer to start the study after at least the first molt.

What do you think?

EDIT: To make it a fairer test, I wonder Treatment 1 should be the control, and if there should be two other treatments added, such as "cricket soup" and "cricket soup mixed with flake/bloodworms"? Treatment 2 would be more like supplementation, if live insects were offered every other feeding. In that case, with 5 treatments, that would be a minimum of 20 slings if you had 4/trt.

For a test like this, two feedings a week okay?

Sounds interesting, and I think that two feedings a week would be good. Just make sure that you don't feed the crickets fishfood or it will defeat the purpose of the experiment.

 

[LisaD]

Are you still feeding yours fish food? If so, are they doing well? Do you remember the brand of betta flake you offered?

 

[Nerri1029]

the problem i see with this experiment is that the groups are made up of single specimens. it will be difficult if not impossible to determine what effects are a result of diet and what are just particular to that individual spider. you really need more than one subject in a group to get an idea of what is going on.

Yes Sample size is very underrated, too easy to form conclusions based on data from too few subjects.

and this kind of thing is one of the big reasons I love this hobby.

I would like to add/change something.
INSTEAD of size of molts, which is very difficult to measure accurately, I suggest measuring the carapace of the exuvium. ( 2 reasons, you can do so with much more precision ( the same way every time ) and this part is almost always left over even when slings/juvies "munch" the exuvium.

 

[Exo]

Are you still feeding yours fish food? If so, are they doing well? Do you remember the brand of betta flake you offered?

It is Tetra "Betamin" tropical medley, and I'm still feeding it to them. They appear to be doing really well and one of them is about to molt any day now. (the Nhandu coloratovillosus)

 

[LisaD]

I would like to add/change something.
INSTEAD of size of molts, which is very difficult to measure accurately, I suggest measuring the carapace of the exuvium. ( 2 reasons, you can do so with much more precision ( the same way every time ) and this part is almost always left over even when slings/juvies "munch" the exuvium.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

 

[xhexdx]

I'll have to count them up, but I think I can swing 20 OBT slings for this experiment.

--Joe

 

[Adversary]

Sounds like an interesting experiment. I'll have to keep my eye on this.

 

[super-pede]

fish food

Iv'e tried this with my t's but it didn't work

 

[Exo]

Iv'e tried this with my t's but it didn't work

Weird, mine are addicted to the stuff. :?

 

[PrimalTaunt]

Iv'e tried this with my t's but it didn't work

Did you use the same method that Exo did or did you just sprinkle it in? What type were you using? What Ts?

 

[RedDragonfly]

A good thing to remember about any experiment is that even one which doesn't support your original hypothesis is not a failure. In fact, sometimes, the better the experiment, the more questions you will have following the experiment.

One thing to make sure to do in setting up an experiment is to make sure you have clearly defined the variables you will be measuring.

Personally, I would recommend keeping a daily record of temperature and humidity. If you have a reliable digital thermometer and hydrometer in each viv, you may obtain more clear environmental data which should be helpful in reporting your results.

Personally, if I were setting this up and had the ability to set up camera for recording the ts nocternal behaviors, it would be something I would consider edoing. In setting up any science fair type experiment, videos are amazing to have as an additional exhibit.

 

[RedDragonfly]

I don't have any data to add specific to T's as to the effects of varying foods and colorin. However, when dealing with poison dart frogs - and something that is also considered in dealing with fish, there are supplements which heighten oranges and yellows which may well be in the betta food. My guess is that it wouldn't be likely to affect inverts the same way though.

 

[Nerri1029]

A good thing to remember about any experiment is that even one which doesn't support your original hypothesis is not a failure. In fact, sometimes, the better the experiment, the more questions you will have following the experiment.

One thing to make sure to do in setting up an experiment is to make sure you have clearly defined the variables you will be measuring.

Personally, I would recommend keeping a daily record of temperature and humidity. If you have a reliable digital thermometer and hydrometer in each viv, you may obtain more clear environmental data which should be helpful in reporting your results.

Personally, if I were setting this up and had the ability to set up camera for recording the ts nocternal behaviors, it would be something I would consider edoing. In setting up any science fair type experiment, videos are amazing to have as an additional exhibit.

Actually it's Hygrometer.
a Hydrometer measures the liquids density (used in urine testing and beer making- not the same one though )

 

[Exo]

Just an update for you, my N.chromatus molted this past friday and seems to be doing great. It was fed almost exclusively on fishfood since it's previous molt and has gained about 1/4 of an inch. Also, I'm not sure if this is normal or not but it seems to have gained it's full adult coloring and it's only 1".

So far it seems that fishfood is a viable feeding option.

 

[robd]

That's very interesting. I might give an experiment like that a shot once I hatch out an egg sac or something.

 

[ZergFront]

That's very interesting. I might give an experiment like that a shot once I hatch out an egg sac or something.

I was thinking I'd do something like that, too. I got to get some OBTs or H.macs some time...

 

[PrimalTaunt]

I think that there's more than a few of us thinking of doing this and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, if multiple tests get the same results that would be great. I'm personally thinking of using an LP or a Nhandu species due to their relatively quick growths and lack of webbing (which would benefit photo documentation).

 

[presurcukr]

the problem i see with this experiment is that the groups are made up of single specimens. it will be difficult if not impossible to determine what effects are a result of diet and what are just particular to that individual spider. you really need more than one subject in a group to get an idea of what is going on.

Well I have 30 A.sp mozambique slings I can do this with 10 each???

 

[nhdjoseywales]

Well I have 30 A.sp mozambique slings I can do this with 10 each???

i would think so, yes.

 

[Czalz]

Supplements

I had a group of B. smithi slings that I did some enzyme experiments with a few years ago, but my lazy butt never logged any of the data. However, I was convinced the slings that were eating the enzyme enriched roaches were growing at a faster rate. I stopped the supplements after they reached about 2.5", and I had to sell all of my stuff, but it was a fun experiment.

I am trying to locate the company that I bought that particular blend of enzymes from, so I can try it again and actually log the information this time. I found them at one of the events here at the OKC fairgrounds, but it's been so long I can't remember the name of the company.

Anyhow, I am just rambling now, but I would be very interested in your findings. It interests me that you say there was no bolus after your sling ate the fish flakes. That is pretty much the concept behind the enzyme experiments too. The more that the tarantula can digest, the bigger/faster it can grow.