My little quartertard.

Rochelle

Arachnoprince
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Aug 12, 2006
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My first thought was that if it were actually from something like inbreeding; then it would show up in more than one sling from that sac. But I wasn't sure.
Thanks for clarifying....without making me feel like a noob all over again...lol :clap:
I was honestly curious.
 

Talkenlate04

ArachnoGod
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Feb 13, 2006
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8,652
Ya other then this guy all the other slings molted without issue and are feeding. It was interesting that is for sure. Guess I will keep an eye on him and make a decision soon.
 

DrAce

Arachnodemon
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Feb 22, 2007
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764
Here's the problem with the diagnosis.

It's not bilateral... meaning he's only got it on one side.

Hox genes act on top-bottom symmetry... so you get things like two sets of wings, or no head/thorax, or legs appearing on the tip of a head. That kinda thing. The pedipalp coming where it shouldn't was my guess that it was a hox gene effect... but you'd expect two of them.

I THINK, and this is nothing more than an educated guess, that this is actually a clump of cells in the wrong place... they didn't migrate properly during early development, and now they're just causing havok.
 

frtysxan2

Arachnosquire
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Nov 5, 2007
Messages
105
These things just happen. It is a vessel of evolution. In fact genetic mutation is the most common way species evolve. The down side to all this, as in this situation, is that sometime the mutation is actually a detriment to the organism. In this case natural selection is taking its course and weeding out the weaker mutations in the gene pool.

The other thing that it could be, that has not been mentioned, is cancer. Repressing enzymes in the cells missed a messed up DNA sequence (or a few) and the genetic code was not repaired and if the DNA was non-repairable the cell(s) was not destroyed. The new cell(s) lacked the repressor enzyme or protein and the cell(s) multiplied out of control, fusing body parts and cutting off simple body functions. I know that there are many factors at the genetic level that causes cancer in humans but I don't have the slightest clue what would cause it in arachnids. Just another thought on the subject. It is more than likely a good thing that this specimen is unable to reproduce.

I was rooting for the little guy though. I followed the whole thread and checked for updates daily. It would have been kind of neat to have a deformed P. reg., very unique. Maybe it will happen again and one will live to maturity (that is if it is not cancerous). With the amount of P. regalis you breed Ryan the odds of it happening again are probably pretty high. Your screen name should be Poecilotheria Farmer instead of talkenlate04. hahaha!

peace,
Jon
 

DrAce

Arachnodemon
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...
The other thing that it could be, that has not been mentioned, is cancer. Repressing enzymes in the cells missed a messed up DNA sequence (or a few) and the genetic code was not repaired and if the DNA was non-repairable the cell(s) was not destroyed. The new cell(s) lacked the repressor enzyme or protein and the cell(s) multiplied out of control, fusing body parts and cutting off simple body functions. I know that there are many factors at the genetic level that causes cancer in humans but I don't have the slightest clue what would cause it in arachnids. Just another thought on the subject. It is more than likely a good thing that this specimen is unable to reproduce.
...
I thought about that... but given the stage of life it's in, I suspect it's less likely to be a cancerous-like growth.
 

Sabatta

Arachnoknight
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Nov 30, 2007
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211
I still would like to know if he can drink. Or whether you have tried offering water or not (unless I missed where it was said). I've read speculations that his digestive tract could be off, but it seems there is a pretty simple way to confirm that. If he drinks and the water comes back out the top of his head then we know for sure. If he plumps up, then we know there's hope.
 

frtysxan2

Arachnosquire
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I thought about that... but given the stage of life it's in, I suspect it's less likely to be a cancerous-like growth.
You have to remember that they are not humans so the mutations may happen at different stages and different ways. And simply because of the fact that they do grow in stages might be a huge reason it got so much worse after the molt. I am just trying to think in terms of almost alien anatomy. Well whatever the case maybe, it is one messed up sling and I don't think, as much as I want too, that it is going to get any better even if it somehow does make it to its next molt. It got worse with the last molt. If you consider the second law of Entropy, which states, the disorder or entropy in the universe is continuously increasing; because of this and the fact that spiders, from what we know, don't really have will power. I don't thing that the little guy can do the work needed to correct his deformities. Some of you may disagree with me but that is where this is headed in my mind.
 

DrAce

Arachnodemon
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You have to remember that they are not humans so the mutations may happen at different stages and different ways. And simply because of the fact that they do grow in stages might be a huge reason it got so much worse after the molt. I am just trying to think in terms of almost alien anatomy. Well whatever the case maybe, it is one messed up sling and I don't think, as much as I want too, that it is going to get any better even if it somehow does make it to its next molt. It got worse with the last molt. If you consider the second law of Entropy, which states, the disorder or entropy in the universe is continuously increasing; because of this and the fact that spiders, from what we know, don't really have will power. I don't thing that the little guy can do the work needed to correct his deformities. Some of you may disagree with me but that is where this is headed in my mind.
Also, if it was cancer, I would have expected someone else to have reported this before.
I can't exclude the possibility, but I really don't think it's likely.
Entropy, unfortunately, isn't a factor in cancer or genetic mutations. Life is a constant struggle against entropy. As long as you are alive, your body is fighting a losing battle with entropy... but there's no useful way to measure entropy in a system like a spider, so it's a mute point.
 

unitard311

Arachnoknight
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Also, if it was cancer, I would have expected someone else to have reported this before.
I can't exclude the possibility, but I really don't think it's likely.
Entropy, unfortunately, isn't a factor in cancer or genetic mutations. Life is a constant struggle against entropy. As long as you are alive, your body is fighting a losing battle with entropy... but there's no useful way to measure entropy in a system like a spider, so it's a mute point.
"you can't fight entropy, so why even try" 311 song, sorry I am a nerd. Poor little guy :(
 

Brianhogs

Arachnosquire
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May 1, 2008
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Im wondering if you could make and artificial food for him...like crickets mashed with water to make a soup or something.
 

Talkenlate04

ArachnoGod
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Im wondering if you could make and artificial food for him...like crickets mashed with water to make a soup or something.
And where would I put it once I mashed it? There is nothing resembling a normal mouth. He can't even drink.
 

Cocoa-Jin

Arachnobaron
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Oct 15, 2007
Messages
438
he just might need an IV tube and bottle to go with it...the T doesnt appear to have a functioning mouth.
 

frtysxan2

Arachnosquire
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Messages
105
Also, if it was cancer, I would have expected someone else to have reported this before.
I can't exclude the possibility, but I really don't think it's likely.
Entropy, unfortunately, isn't a factor in cancer or genetic mutations. Life is a constant struggle against entropy. As long as you are alive, your body is fighting a losing battle with entropy... but there's no useful way to measure entropy in a system like a spider, so it's a mute point.
Ok, so before T's molt their new exoskeleton grows beneath the old one, right? Once the molt happens or just before it happens, the new exoskeleton stops growing. So, a fully developed exoskeleton doesn't grow, it expands with the movement of the T. For instance when the T eats or drinks the abdomen gets bigger. The exoskeleton does not grow. If it is cancer, the effects of the cancer's growth would not show until the next molt. Just wondering, is there any actual living tissue in the exoskeleton itself? This is not including the spider inside of the skeleton. If there is no living tissue the exoskeleton would be cut off from nutrients and would not grow even under cancerous conditions or at least slow. For instance if a T gets a cut it bleeds and does not stop. Even if the the internal fluid coagulated the exoskeleton would not heal, no new exoskeleton would form to plug the breech. In every stage of growth there is a lot of cell growth occurring which give a lot of room for genetic mistakes. So, even if the T is young it could still be more susceptible to cancer. Just because humans normally do not get cancer until later in life does not mean a T could not get it at early stages. This is hard to explain, but does anyone get what I am trying to say?

As for entropy, why can't you measure entropy in a spider? It is alive and it is fighting entropy or it would be dead. This little guy is really loosing his battle with entropy. Wouldn't cancer be the ultimate form of entropy. Cells growing out of control with out rhyme or reason. Deforming the living organism one cell at a time, constantly. No order hence, (I really just wanted to say hence) disorder, hence (I said hence again hahaha) entropy. Entropy does not have its own unit of measure, so wouldn't the extent of its control over the a certain object be relevant to the individual?

Jon
 

smof

Arachnodemon
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I don't think cancer is an example of entropy, as for cancerous cells to proliferate requires the organisation of atoms, the opposite of entropy. There may be no order on the cellular level but on the atomic level there is.
 

frtysxan2

Arachnosquire
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I don't think cancer is an example of entropy, as for cancerous cells to proliferate requires the organisation of atoms, the opposite of entropy. There may be no order on the cellular level but on the atomic level there is.
True. I didn't think about that.:wall:
 

DrAce

Arachnodemon
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Feb 22, 2007
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764
Ok, so before T's molt their new exoskeleton grows beneath the old one, right? Once the molt happens or just before it happens, the new exoskeleton stops growing. So, a fully developed exoskeleton doesn't grow, it expands with the movement of the T. For instance when the T eats or drinks the abdomen gets bigger. The exoskeleton does not grow. If it is cancer, the effects of the cancer's growth would not show until the next molt. Just wondering, is there any actual living tissue in the exoskeleton itself? This is not including the spider inside of the skeleton. If there is no living tissue the exoskeleton would be cut off from nutrients and would not grow even under cancerous conditions or at least slow. For instance if a T gets a cut it bleeds and does not stop. Even if the the internal fluid coagulated the exoskeleton would not heal, no new exoskeleton would form to plug the breech. In every stage of growth there is a lot of cell growth occurring which give a lot of room for genetic mistakes. So, even if the T is young it could still be more susceptible to cancer. Just because humans normally do not get cancer until later in life does not mean a T could not get it at early stages. This is hard to explain, but does anyone get what I am trying to say?

As for entropy, why can't you measure entropy in a spider? It is alive and it is fighting entropy or it would be dead. This little guy is really loosing his battle with entropy. Wouldn't cancer be the ultimate form of entropy. Cells growing out of control with out rhyme or reason. Deforming the living organism one cell at a time, constantly. No order hence, (I really just wanted to say hence) disorder, hence (I said hence again hahaha) entropy. Entropy does not have its own unit of measure, so wouldn't the extent of its control over the a certain object be relevant to the individual?

Jon
That is all true, but it's also true of any ingrowing problem with development/genetic deformity. This would also not show except during periods of moulting, since no major body changes really can happen except during those 'reveal' stages.

I don't think cancer is an example of entropy, as for cancerous cells to proliferate requires the organisation of atoms, the opposite of entropy. There may be no order on the cellular level but on the atomic level there is.
Strictly speaking, cancer would probably be a decrease in entropy. Multiple cells rapidly dividing and forming a large ball (read highly ordered) of idenical cells... that's a lot of order.
Not to mention the energy being burnt up in those cells... energy spent can be translated into order...

But... in reality there isn't any real entropy story in cancer. Life is a big fight against entropy. That's basically WHY we eat, respire and reproduce. When the entropy takes over, you stop being alive.
 

scar is my t

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
333
I'm sorry to hear that he isn't doing too well. I would just let him do his thing and see how things turn out. You have to remember they can not feel any pain.

On a brighter note. All five that I have from your egg sac are doing really well and just molted! :)

Bob
now we humans feel pain but how can we know that animals dont?dogs yelp when you step on them and tarantulas do get stressed.tarantulas may not be the smartest but they still have some form of feeling we just dont know what they are:?
 
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