Milipede update

[ErinM31]

Well I work at a saw mill and there is a lot of wood debris that is pilled up so I know right were to look for the ones that are around here

What kind of wood does the saw mill process and what is done with the sawdust?

 

[SlugPod]

@ErinM31

That is strange. I wonder what is in these homes or businesses that leads to an infestation of millipedes?

I'm not quite sure. Most of the time when they are actually inside, they aren't alive. But if they stay outside they seem to do just fine. Most of the time I just see a bunch around the outside of buildings, not really inside. I don't really know why they would want to be around buildings, aside from maybe the landscaping. If they don't spray pesticides, obviously they can live there just fine.

Yeah a lot of non-native species are typically detrimental to the natural environment and/or the native species in it, but for the most part I don't think Millipedes are really bad. The food supply doesn't really run thin, unless for some reason there are LOTS of detrivores in that area, but I don't think there's ever that many in one area, at least not that I've seen.

True, but not surprising. The non-native species were introduced by humans and many tend to spread along with them. I could find no isopods in the native forest but they can be found in abundance around buildings and neighborhoods. They may be throughout San Antonio err long with all the slash-and-burn "development" that is going on. I am not saddened by the isopods spreading, but by the local fauna's destruction and can only hope that the natives are able to recolonize. Otherwise, like you, people will only find the introduced species around them and that is a sad thing.

Both N. gordanus and C. spinigerus are terrific millipedes. From my experience, the N. gordanus are far hardier. C. spinigerus are especially nice because they are usually on top of the substrate and I am trying to find conditions to not only keep them healthy, but encourage reproduction. They are supposed to be easier than other species that I have been successful with.

I'm sure part of the reason I've only been able to find the two species is because my area just doesn't have a lot of natural areas. It's mostly developed and because of that, I'm sure a lot of the native species got wiped out when it was being developed, but the non-natives managed to survive or at least make it because they got imported on plants and managed to get around that way. So they were able to make it to the bits of areas that aren't developed, such as yards and other landscapings.

I'd love to have a millipede that likes to be "out" more. I typically only see my bumblebee's at night time and if I bring light over to them (it's kind of hard to see them in the dark, obviously!).
Sometimes they'll come out if I put fruit in there, but sometimes they won't.

Me too!!! There are very few dealers that have more than one or two species for sale and many native species are impossible to find, much less imports

The only place I've been able to find online that seems to carry a few species and still seems to be "active" is bugs in cyberspace. I think they had more there a while back (I think they had an albino variant of one species) but they've been removed (I assume because they don't have anymore to sell). I haven't bought any from them yet but I hope to soon.
I remember reading that they were banned from importation because of the mites that are on wild specimens ended up eating crops or something? I don't remember exactly but it was something with the mites on the millipedes. Not sure how true that is. But I must agree that it's stupid to ban the importation of something like millipedes.
I don't remember where I read it now, or whether or not it was true, but I would hope it's true. It would be nice to get some new(er) species going in the trade. Not that I really know how many species would be interesting to import and get here that aren't already here in some capacity.

Again, me too! Some species are very easy to breed in captivity, some are only easy under the right conditions, if that makes sense, while others are difficult just to keep alive in captivity, much less get to reproduce.

I know what you mean about the right conditions. I find it interesting that sometimes people can have an easy time breeding a species and someone can have an extremely hard time with the same species, but still have the same/ similar conditions. Obviously something must be off or someone is doing something just slightly differently than the other. Or one person just has stubborn millipedes, though I don't think millipedes are necessarily capable of being stubborn (more of a joke lol).

I have quite a few of the Bumblebee millipedes and they breed really easily. If I look in their container at night I can see millipedes of various sizes.
I have 4-6 young scarlet millipedes. Possibly more but I haven't seen more come out yet. I'm hoping I can find some more adults sometime and get them to breed and reproduce. I know of a couple of places where I have seen them here, typically around buildings in the early morning.
I think I found an ivory, but I'm not sure because I didn't keep it. It looked different than the bumblebee's, and was the right colour to be an ivory. I plan on going to the park again sometime (possibly tomorrow) where I found it, see if I can't find anything there. And maybe another park a different day. The (other) park seems like a great place for millipedes to be, I just haven't found any there yet.

I have a pair of these lovely millipedes and would like to know what they are.

It's beautiful! About how big are they? it looks a lot like the bumblebee millipedes, just a softer colour. But I really don't know how to identify millipedes / know a lot of species. I know a few species and that's about it haha. I'm still learning.
My forte is snakes, self taught myself all about genetics in snakes and such.
But millipedes are becoming a fast second passion. I really enjoy them. But it seems a bit more difficult to learn about them than snakes, since I assume not a lot of people are in the hobby of keeping millipedes. There's a lot more than I would have thought but nothing compared to the reptile hobby.
I'd love to see colour morphs of various millipede species pop up though. Typically always starts with albino and goes from there.

Went off on a bit of a tangent there at the end but -- Maybe I'll see if there are any other parks near to me that I could go to sometime. I know there are lots of parks around, I just know that some of them you can't take anything from. So I'll have to be sure if I go to any, I can take millipedes at least.

 

[Jerry]

Cotton wood, oak ,ash, locust ,mulberry ,elm ,pine ,ceder and all kinds of things we sell sawdust mulch and wood chips for all kinds of uses a three cubic yard frontend loader bucket is $30 its enufe to fill a full size pickup bed heaping full .

 

[ErinM31]

I'm not quite sure. Most of the time when they are actually inside, they aren't alive. But if they stay outside they seem to do just fine. Most of the time I just see a bunch around the outside of buildings, not really inside. I don't really know why they would want to be around buildings, aside from maybe the landscaping. If they don't spray pesticides, obviously they can live there just fine.

Ahhh, I thought infestation = an overabundance indoors
Why should people mind a lot of millipedes outside? What harm do they do? People are weird. And you're right, from what I've seen in the literature, even the native species in Florida seem to appreciate hydration and landscaping that doesn't include pesticides.

Yeah a lot of non-native species are typically detrimental to the natural environment and/or the native species in it, but for the most part I don't think Millipedes are really bad. The food supply doesn't really run thin, unless for some reason there are LOTS of detrivores in that area, but I don't think there's ever that many in one area, at least not that I've seen.

Agreed!

I'm sure part of the reason I've only been able to find the two species is because my area just doesn't have a lot of natural areas. It's mostly developed and because of that, I'm sure a lot of the native species got wiped out when it was being developed, but the non-natives managed to survive or at least make it because they got imported on plants and managed to get around that way. So they were able to make it to the bits of areas that aren't developed, such as yards and other landscapings.

Exactly. That's what I fear may happen around here. Most of the tarantulas are already gone. I hope that I can find some in less developed areas this fall.

I'd love to have a millipede that likes to be "out" more. I typically only see my bumblebee's at night time and if I bring light over to them (it's kind of hard to see them in the dark, obviously!).
Sometimes they'll come out if I put fruit in there, but sometimes they won't.

I would definitely recommend Chicobolus spinigerus (Ivory millipede) then. They are almost always on the surface, unlike all other Spirobolids I've kept. Orthoporus ornatus and many Polydesmids are also on the surface a lot but have more particular requirements.

The only place I've been able to find online that seems to carry a few species and still seems to be "active" is bugs in cyberspace. I think they had more there a while back (I think they had an albino variant of one species) but they've been removed (I assume because they don't have anymore to sell). I haven't bought any from them yet but I hope to soon.

BugsInCyberspace is definitely the best! The availability of some millipedes is seasonal. As for the albino Narceus americanus; I fear there was only one supplier and something happened to their colony.

I remember reading that they were banned from importation because of the mites that are on wild specimens ended up eating crops or something? I don't remember exactly but it was something with the mites on the millipedes. Not sure how true that is. But I must agree that it's stupid to ban the importation of something like millipedes.
I don't remember where I read it now, or whether or not it was true, but I would hope it's true. It would be nice to get some new(er) species going in the trade. Not that I really know how many species would be interesting to import and get here that aren't already here in some capacity.

To my knowledge, mites are commensal with ONE species of millipedes that were imported -- the African Giant Blacks (AGBs). I never heard that they turned out to be pests but even if that is so, that is HARDLY a reason to ban ALL millipede imports. There are quite a few millipedes that would be GREAT to have in the hobby if they do well in captivity! I am not in favor of importing species such as the giant pill millipedes that cannot survive, much less reproduce, in captivity; there are many that I believe are kept successfully in countries without such idiotic laws. I cannot give you species offhand as I have done no more than admire photos. All of my focus has been on the species found in North America both because I can actually acquire them and for my book.

I know what you mean about the right conditions. I find it interesting that sometimes people can have an easy time breeding a species and someone can have an extremely hard time with the same species, but still have the same/ similar conditions. Obviously something must be off or someone is doing something just slightly differently than the other. Or one person just has stubborn millipedes, though I don't think millipedes are necessarily capable of being stubborn (more of a joke lol).

This seems to be the case with Ivories! Some people say that they are the easiest ever while others -- myself included, unfortunately -- experience a high amount of stochastic die-off. I'm not giving up -- especially since they happen to be one of my favorite species!

Hehe, I know what you mean -- one of my Narceus americanus I want to describe as ornery and I could swear there is a difference in intelligence among the three Ephebopus murinus (skeleton tarantula) spiderlings, although they are all siblings and isn't everything instinct and they don't really have a capacity that could be described as intelligence? Yet they are like the three little pigs. One makes it's burrow too small so that it has to molt on the "doorstep" and would likely be dead in the wild and now it has outgrown it's burrow entirely and hangs out on the surface. On the other end of the spectrum is the one that made it's burrow first and fastest, large enough to molt in, and relocated before the burrow was outgrown. Lol, that turned into quite a tangent that has naught to do with millipedes...

I have quite a few of the Bumblebee millipedes and they breed really easily. If I look in their container at night I can see millipedes of various sizes.
I have 4-6 young scarlet millipedes. Possibly more but I haven't seen more come out yet. I'm hoping I can find some more adults sometime and get them to breed and reproduce. I know of a couple of places where I have seen them here, typically around buildings in the early morning.
I think I found an ivory, but I'm not sure because I didn't keep it. It looked different than the bumblebee's, and was the right colour to be an ivory. I plan on going to the park again sometime (possibly tomorrow) where I found it, see if I can't find anything there. And maybe another park a different day. The (other) park seems like a great place for millipedes to be, I just haven't found any there yet.

That's awesome! I should purchase more Bumblebee millipedes -- only have one right now. It is fun to watch the pedelings grow! I have young from my Narceus americanus, Tylobolus cf. castaneus, Pseudopolydesmus pinetorum, Auturus evides and Oxidus gracilis.

I hope that you find Ivories! There are some nice color variations with varying amounts of pink in addition to the black and ivory.

It's beautiful! About how big are they? it looks a lot like the bumblebee millipedes, just a softer colour.

Thank you, I think so too! They are about 2.5 in / 6.5 cm long -- very similar to the Ivories in their size and morphology. I have a pair and have seen them mate -- really hope I get pedelings!!!

But I really don't know how to identify millipedes / know a lot of species. I know a few species and that's about it haha. I'm still learning.
My forte is snakes, self taught myself all about genetics in snakes and such.
But millipedes are becoming a fast second passion. I really enjoy them. But it seems a bit more difficult to learn about them than snakes, since I assume not a lot of people are in the hobby of keeping millipedes. There's a lot more than I would have thought but nothing compared to the reptile hobby.

SO TRUE!!! There is just NOT the information that there is to identify even other invertebrates, such as spiders and butterflies and many others which have helpful guides in print and online. I was only able to identify my local Eurymerodesmus melacis by posting a photo on BugGuide -- which is an awesome resource, but there needs to be more accessible information to guide people in identifying millipedes they find. That has led to my researching everything I can on millipedes and collecting as many different species as I can from across North America -- I'm going to put together a guide to their identification and husbandry.

I'd love to see colour morphs of various millipede species pop up though. Typically always starts with albino and goes from there.

Actually, my understanding is that albino morphs are quite rare among invertebrates. I don't know why; yes, albinism would disadvantageous for most in the wild, but that it true for all species that normally produce pigment.

 

[ErinM31]

Cotton wood, oak ,ash, locust ,mulberry ,elm ,pine ,ceder and all kinds of things we sell sawdust mulch and wood chips for all kinds of uses a three cubic yard frontend loader bucket is $30 its enufe to fill a full size pickup bed heaping full .

Ooooh, would it be possible to purchase smaller quantities? I have no space for a pickup bed full but it would be great to have oak sawdust with other hardwoods such as elm and poplar mixed in!

 

[Jerry]

Well two questions how much and were

 

[ErinM31]

Well two questions how much and were

Around 5 pounds shipped to San Antonio, Texas (unless you're in Texas -- in which case I could pick it up on one of my bug-hunting expeditions!

 

[Jerry]

I'll do so checking see what I can find out

 

[SlugPod]

Ahhh, I thought infestation = an overabundance indoors
Why should people mind a lot of millipedes outside?

From what I could figure out, they do get indoors but I think most of the time they die indoors.
I guess it could depend on the house in question, though, because sometimes people don't have AC (I don't know how, it's so bloody hot here!) and will have windows/doors open so it wouldn't be too much different indoors vs outdoors.
I don't know how often infestations actually occur now-a-days though.

Exactly. That's what I fear may happen around here.

Yeah. I'd love to be able to find/obtain native species and be able to breed them and release them back into natural areas like the parks, but there are only a few Florida Natives for sale online so it wouldn't be much.

I would definitely recommend Chicobolus spinigerus (Ivory millipede) then.

I may try to get a few of those, then! I also love their colour so it'd be a double good thing. Plus they are one of the florida natives.

BugsInCyberspaceis definitely the best! The availability of some millipedes is seasonal. As for the albino Narceus americanus; I fear there was only one supplier and something happened to their colony.

Ah makes sense. I definitely plan on purchasing from them when I can.
Ah that's a shame! I'd love to be able to find some albino or even just different-coloured millipedes. I feel like having colour morphs could draw in a lot more potential keepers, since "exotic" colours makes things more appealing to more people.

To my knowledge, mites are commensal with ONE species of millipedes that were imported -- the African Giant Blacks (AGBs). I never heard that they turned out to be pests but even if that is so, that is HARDLY a reason to ban ALL millipede imports. There are quite a few millipedes that would be GREAT to have in the hobby if they do well in captivity! I am not in favor of importing species such as the giant pill millipedes that cannot survive, much less reproduce, in captivity; there are many that I believe are kept successfully in countries without such idiotic laws. I cannot give you species offhand as I have done no more than admire photos. All of my focus has been on the species found in North America both because I can actually acquire them and for my book.

That's what I thought, but it's been a while since I read that now so I couldn't remember -exactly- what the reason was other than Mites. I agree that it is hardly a reason to ban all millipedes, I could understand maybe banning them from Africa at the most, but all? Absurd.
It'd be nice if we at least had the option to get imports of some species, though. If nothing more than other species that are currently being successfully kept in captivity in other places.
It'd be nice to go study some species out in the wild and see what kind of conditions they require and then bring them back and try to replicate that. That's how any animal-keeping hobby typically starts. Getting them and trying to recreate the best conditions for them and figuring out what works and what doesn't.
Yeah I want to put more time into researching/learning about species I can actually get. I really love learning as much as I can about things I really like, such as millipedes. I got the book Millipedes in Captivity but haven't read through ALL of it yet. I just kind of skimmed it. Looking at the pictures haha.

This seems to be the case with Ivories! Some people say that they are the easiest ever while others -- myself included, unfortunately -- experience a high amount of stochasticdie-off. I'm not giving up -- especially since they happen to be one of my favorite species!

That's what I had happen with the scarlet's I found. They did well for a couple months, well enough to reproduce, but then died seemingly without reason. I don't know if they just die after successful breeding or not?
I'd love to get some more of those sometime -- hoping I can go to a couple of spots I know I saw some before. Hoping I find some too xP
That's still strange that people can have and easy go of things with certain species and others have a hard time. They may be sensitive to certain conditions and if they're slightly off - just don't do well. That'd be my guess anyway.

That's awesome! I should purchase more Bumblebee millipedes -- only have one right now. It is fun to watch the pedelings grow! I have young from my Narceus americanus, Tylobolus cf. castaneus, Pseudopolydesmus pinetorum, Auturus evides and Oxidus gracilis.

I hope that you find Ivories! There are some nice color variations with varying amounts of pink in addition to the black and ivory.

Bumblebee's are all over the place here. I might go collect a few more from the place right around the corner from my house one morning sine there were so many. I haven't found any that are any different colours, aside from some maybe being more yellow than others. But it's not that noticeable a difference.

I enjoy watching them grow yes! Seeing how they grow into their colours, start moving around more, etc.

Thank you, I think so too! They are about 2.5 in / 6.5 cm long -- very similar to the Ivories in their size and morphology. I have a pair and have seen them mate -- really hope I get pedelings!!!

Awesome! It would be awesome if they do successfully reproduce. I'd be interested in seeing how the babies develop if they are a morph. Sometimes morph do weird things and will either look the same as the parents or will do something completely different and pop out some interesting surprises.

SO TRUE!!! There is just NOT the information that there is to identify even other invertebrates, such as spiders and butterflies and many others which have helpful guides in print and online. I was only able to identify my local Eurymerodesmus melacis by posting a photo on BugGuide -- which is an awesome resource, but there needs to be more accessible information to guide people in identifying millipedes they find. That has led to my researching everything I can on millipedes and collecting as many different species as I can from across North America -- I'm going to put together a guide to their identification and husbandry.

That's awesome! I know that so many millipedes look so similar that it can be often times hard to tell any difference at all.
But that's awesome that you're working on putting together a guide and husbandry guide. Having that kind of information available is really good for all kinds of people. Sometimes that can get people to start keeping when they see how much info is available to them.

Actually, my understanding is that albino morphs are quite rare among invertebrates. I don't know why; yes, albinism would disadvantageous for most in the wild, but that it true for all species that normally produce pigment.

That's interesting -- I wasn't aware that it's rare among inverts in particular. I know it can be fairly rare among any animal at first, but after you find one you can get more.
Maybe inverts just rarely carry the albino gene for whatever reason. Obviously it's not the best for any wild animal (unless they'd live in snowy areas) because they stick out, but I don't know why it'd be particularly rare among inverts.

 

[Jerry]

Around 5 pounds shipped to San Antonio, Texas (unless you're in Texas -- in which case I could pick it up on one of my bug-hunting expeditions! [/QUOTE


Well that would be a long expidition I'm in Nebraska I'll check on shipping coast and let you know the sawdust would be super cheep for no more than that and just to be clear its mostly comprised of cottonwood that's what we cut the most of I do have access to some oak I can cut to try and get like 50 50 mix the next thing is 5 pound worth of dry light weight sawdust is going to be a fairly large box but its doable

 

[Jerry]

Here is one of the two sp I've found around this is by far the most common one
And as you can see some of them are paired up

 

[ErinM31]

Well that would be a long expidition I'm in Nebraska I'll check on shipping coast and let you know the sawdust would be super cheep for no more than that and just to be clear its mostly comprised of cottonwood that's what we cut the most of I do have access to some oak I can cut to try and get like 50 50 mix the next thing is 5 pound worth of dry light weight sawdust is going to be a fairly large box but its doable

That sounds good to me! Or ideally 5-10 pounds of 50% cottonwood, 25% oak and 25% elm -- something like that. Let me know how much it would be with shipping, please and thank you very much! I know shipping will be a good bit of the price, but I will save some money fermenting sawdust myself and will also be able to offer my millipedes some additional variety -- which is always a good thing.

 

[Jerry]

Well I have a question @ErinM31 would 50% cotton wood and 50% oak /ash work for you we cut elm but not on a regular enuf basis to have any lying around and also would you like it separated or mixed together

 

[ErinM31]

Well I have a question @ErinM31 would 50% cotton wood and 50% oak /ash work for you we cut elm but not on a regular enuf basis to have any lying around and also would you like it separated or mixed together

That would be just fine! I am going to end up mixing it together, but whichever way is easiest to package and ship works for me.

 

[Jerry]

@ErinM31 Ok well ill get it collected and packaged and see what it will coast to ship and let you know o I also was more interested in a trade than money would like to expand my collection and not to picky about what sp either let me know what you think and what you might heve to trade if that works for you or you can just pay me if you would rather do that

 

[ErinM31]

@ErinM31 Ok well ill get it collected and packaged and see what it will coast to ship and let you know o I also was more interested in a trade than money would like to expand my collection and not to picky about what sp either let me know what you think and what you might heve to trade if that works for you or you can just pay me if you would rather do that

A trade would be fine with me! I have quite a few Narceus americanus, Pseudopolydesmus pinetorum and Auturus evides pedelings. I would recommend the former for you as they are very hardy, grow to four inches, and could be kept with you other millipedes. The latter two are much smaller millipedes but do well and are quite prolific but have specific requirements -- namely moist all-wood substrate (but you would need to find decaying wood or ferment some sawdust before it could support them). I could send you a few of each of those three or whichever interest you -- just let me know. I would like to wait until fall to ship them as that gives the pedelings more time to grow and become hardier before travel and also the temperatures will be much more favorable for shipping.

 

[SDCPs]

Both N. gordanus and C. spinigerus are terrific millipedes. From my experience, the N. gordanus are far hardier. C. spinigerus are especially nice because they are usually on top of the substrate and I am trying to find conditions to not only keep them healthy, but encourage reproduction. They are supposed to be easier than other species that I have been successful with.

This species seems to just need high enclosure temperatures about 75*+ in my experience. Then the grow fast and are quite hardy.

Shellbee, btw I am a major breeder of the exotic flameleg millipede which you might find fascinating. Link to my site in sig.

 

[ErinM31]

This species seems to just need high enclosure temperatures about 75*+ in my experience. Then the grow fast and are quite hardy.

Perhaps 75-80F? I worry that some of my millipedes are stressed by how warm it gets in my apartment -- up to 84F during the afternoon despite the AC being set to 75F. I hope not. Most species seem to be doing well and right now, the only other option I have is 65F in the wine cooler. I plan to purchase more C. spinigerus in the fall -- hopefully I can get everything right this time and be rewarded with pedelings!

 

[ErinM31]

How goes the millipede research?

It'd be nice to go study some species out in the wild and see what kind of conditions they require and then bring them back and try to replicate that. That's how any animal-keeping hobby typically starts. Getting them and trying to recreate the best conditions for them and figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Absolutely! I definitely want to study Xystodesmids in the field; it must be possible to figure out their husbandry. I think I'm making progress with my local Eurymerodesmus melacis.

That's what I had happen with the scarlet's I found. They did well for a couple months, well enough to reproduce, but then died seemingly without reason. I don't know if they just die after successful breeding or not?
I'd love to get some more of those sometime -- hoping I can go to a couple of spots I know I saw some before. Hoping I find some too xP
That's still strange that people can have and easy go of things with certain species and others have a hard time. They may be sensitive to certain conditions and if they're slightly off - just don't do well. That'd be my guess anyway.

I'm afraid I don't know either; I haven't read of Spirobolid species that die after reproducing but that seems possible. How are the pedelings doing?

Bumblebee's are all over the place here. I might go collect a few more from the place right around the corner from my house one morning sine there were so many. I haven't found any that are any different colours, aside from some maybe being more yellow than others. But it's not that noticeable a difference.

Might you be willing to collect some extra to trade?

Awesome! It would be awesome if they do successfully reproduce. I'd be interested in seeing how the babies develop if they are a morph. Sometimes morph do weird things and will either look the same as the parents or will do something completely different and pop out some interesting surprises.

I'll definitely post if I get offspring! I suspect that these are a new species of Narceus. They behave differently from my other Narceus millipedes in addition to their unique appearance.

That's awesome! I know that so many millipedes look so similar that it can be often times hard to tell any difference at all.
But that's awesome that you're working on putting together a guide and husbandry guide. Having that kind of information available is really good for all kinds of people. Sometimes that can get people to start keeping when they see how much info is available to them.

Thank you! That is my goal!

That's interesting -- I wasn't aware that it's rare among inverts in particular. I know it can be fairly rare among any animal at first, but after you find one you can get more.
Maybe inverts just rarely carry the albino gene for whatever reason. Obviously it's not the best for any wild animal (unless they'd live in snowy areas) because they stick out, but I don't know why it'd be particularly rare among inverts.

Perhaps invertebrate enzymes responsible for dark pigment have some additional vital function? I can think of no other reason it should be rare. In any organism, albinism arises by a chance mutation in such enzymes and since most arthropods produce lots of offspring, you'd think albinism would be MORE common than in vertebrates. Yet I'm sure that if there were such a thing as albino tarantulas, they would be quite popular.

 

[Ratmosphere]

Beautiful! I've been thinking about getting a millipede for a year now but haven't gone through with it.