Well, you do bring up a valid point about it being stressful to the animal. But when I do it, I do it very quickly. I don't sit there and torment them. And why do I get stung? Mostly curiosity and for my own satisfaction. It is quite interesting. But I wouldn't describe it as a rush. More just an interesting experience.
OK. I understand your point. Thank you for explaining.
Yes, it is. The good thing is that it is allowed to continue to hash out people opinions. If it was deleted in the beginning, there would be so much less expression of opinions, education, ideas etc that nothing would change. Allowing such craziness to unfold and converse is paramount. I strongly disagree with the person's style, but at least can respect him/her for not just flying off the handle and not getting emotional. It enables a dialog, which is needed. So, at least this thread has that. And that should be praised as is.
Ughh! I just had a super long and good response to this question written out but my phone died and it all got deleted. But to make it brief, I don't think it's totally responsible to post such things being that, yes it could be copied but I consider it a calculated risk that I deem to be quite low... Just like being stung in the first place. Androctonus Australis has a very low mortality rate of about .5 to 2 percent if left untreated. Now granted, my hottentotta tamulus are significantly more dangerous. But let's say it's a maximum 5 percent chance of death for a adult. The weaker 5 percent will be the ones to die, immunocompromised individuals or ppl with underlying health conditions or ppl who are repeatedly stung. Now I don't think too many ppl will copy me. But if they do, I don't think too much bad will happen. But even if someone ends up in the ER over a sting, I doubt it'll make the news. Not saying it can't. We all read the Androctonus amoreuxi story from outpostsurvivor31 but statistically they won't end up in the er im the first place but even if they do... It's not like the news station will likely be called. And I don't think too many kids have access to venom level 4 or 5 scorpions. And even if worst case scenario, somebody copied me and dies (EXTREMELY unlikely), I don't necessarily think they'd ban because of one single incident... Unless it became a trend. But in the scenario of a death, I'll admit that there could be a ban, even if not on a federal level, then maybe on a statewide level or as a city ordinance. But, honestly, I doubt it. Now that being said, there is still some risk... Not only to myself but to others should somebody decide to copy me. And to the hobby should it go wrong when and if someone does copy me. So, yes I probably shouldn't do it. But I simply don't think that it's at all likely that my actions will be mimicked and even if they are, I just don't see it LIKELY going wrong. And if it does go wrong, I don't see it LIKELY ending in death or whatnot. And even if it does God forbid end in something like that, I'm not sure whether it's cause a ban or not. But I don't think so. At least not nationwide. So it's a calculated risk that I consider to be too low to take into account. But then again, that's just my opinion. And everyone's entitled to their own. I view it like speeding. Yeah, it's an unnecessary risk but it's just so much fun and statistically, it can be done with minimal risk to self or others. All I can really do is say, "Don't try this at home" and hopefully no one goes against it. Now, that being said, I do NOT plan on being stung by any of my 5 new hemiscorpius lepturus as that would likely pose a significant risk of maiming me even if I did survive, which I probably would.
Severe scorpion envenomations are always potential risk when dealing with highly venomous scorpions. But yes, envenomations of healthy adults are usually not life-threatening due to their higher corporeal surface, weight, and lower blood plasma concentration of venom. Plus, we can not overlook the fact, early hospital presentation has saved a huge percentage of lives too. Late hospital admission limits the usefulness of the antivenom action to prevent mediator release during an autonomic storm and reduce lethality. Although supportive treatments alone can efficiently improve cardiac functions. A few years ago, in Algeria, a 38 year female teacher died of heart failure from an Androctonus australis sting but not before she suffered a ten day coma because she didn't receive proper symptomatic supportive care nor was there antivenom available to treat her. You may suffer much more serious consequences with a sting from an A. australis from a Tunisian locale or H. tamulus than you have had with a couple of A. australis from an Egyptian locale.
I was wondering... You said that a sting of A. Australis from a Tunisian locale may be worse than a sting from an Egyptian locale? But wasn't the mortality rate .5 percent in Tunisia according to the stats you sent? And do you know which ones are worse? The ones to the north or South of the chott El jarid
What does it matter? Androctonus australis is responsible for most severe scorpion envenomations and fatalities in Tunisia. Plus, these mortality rates are determined by hospital records. What about unreported and unconfirmed cases that have no hospital record? Furthermore, early medical consultation and standardized management of patients is one of largest factors in determining a good prognosis in both moderate and severe envenomations. Bottom line, every time you are stung by one of your pets there is risk of a severe scorpion envenomation which are medical emergencies that can turn deadly without immediate hospital admission.
Once it ground its stinger into my arm. That was the time I got chest pains that I told you about. As for the tolerance aspect of things, tolerance to at least Androctonus venom is real and seems to last at least several months. To date, my first (and accidental if I may add) sting has been the most severe. The tolerance is similar to the tolerance one gets to lsd, not alcohol. It's not gradual and slow over time. It's quick and very strong. One sting and you're virtually immunized for at least a few months. Its not that the venom has no effect but the effect is quite minimal and even more localized than it is normally. However, the sting site will still be cold to the touch. But it has honestly been over a year since we I've taken a sting.
In most areas, there are absolutely no laws, rules or regulations preventing anyone from buying any scorpion. So why wouldn't a minor go out, buy a medically significant scorpion and freehandle it? Especially when an adult told them they could and they'll be fine? Remember even a 15 year old is far more likely to have severe symptoms than an 18 year old.
Just a guess there. Does the benefit of posting it outway the potential risk? I personally don't see any benefit, just potential risks.
Spain is trying to ban almost all non-native reptiles and arthropods, Italy is not too far behind, in Norway and Iceland no reptiles can be legally kept whatsoever, Florida is starting to ban more and more species, the Netherlands and Belgium are planning to create positive species lists.
I must still insist, I strongly disagree with your attitude that intentionally being stung and posting online is OK. There is literally zero benefit to anyone, and loads of risk for literally everyone. Be it government control, peoples safety etc. It's just a waste of public resources (health care) getting stung intentionally. Again, only actual research I could see being possibly justified.
Well the lower rate of severe scorpion envenomations should be a positive re-enforcement to genuine responsible and mature scorpion hobbyist that there is a high probability that their exotic pet can not kill them. But that they should give it all proper due respect that severe envenomations and deaths due occur to adults just at a much smaller rate. And that unlike children, the elderly, and individuals with impaired immunity, the symptons are more gradual and progressive first its the local symptons then mild to moderate non-life threatening systemic symptons may or may not manifest but the first few hours are crucial if those moderate neuroexcitation symptons intensify into an autonomic storm that can potentially evolve into a severe and deadly sequlae featuring the manifestation of one or more life threatening signs and symptons representing respiratory, cardiac, and central nervous system failure:
Well, while I disagree on the level of irresponsibility of what I'm posting, I can at least respect your concern and the way you've all come to me requesting me not to publicly post such things. Still, although it isn't for attention per se, I still do have the desire to discuss such envenomations with others who at least understand such things. So how about we reach a middle ground? How about if I make one final post where I can get people who are interested to PM me? And then we can carry out any further discussions in personal messages rather than openly on these forums? That way, I'm not going to anger others such as yourself or others who may feel the same way.
Intentionally being envenomated by medically significant scorpions is not being responsible and setting a good example you are participating in risk taking and attention seeking behavior right now whether for a dopamine reward, personal gratification, or simply validation. But quite possibly one of these times one of your pets is going to have your name written on it whether due greater toxicity, dosage of venom, number of stings, or any or all of the above and it is going to absolutely wreck your week or put you in ICU fighting for your life. And the symptons will be so unpleasant (or dangerous) you may swear off keeping medically significant scorpions ever again for the rest of your life. But yes, you have become a common statistic, now get over it. Let's not check mark all the empty boxes.
Handling medically significant scorpions is great way to provoke a sting and risks multiple stings. Actually, the hobby needs to strongly discourage handling dangerous scorpions. There is only risk and zero reward for both pet and keeper.
Unless you are " milking " anything venomous for medical or scientific research I personally don't see the point.
... but you'll sure as heck feel it after a lightning speed tag.
I think that would be for the best. We don't need to give them reasons to stack against us.
Which is why this is my final post on such subjects
I said this a while ago when this person first started posting this nonsense. A mod needs to delete these posts. They do not do anything for the hobby. This person also needs to be black listed fron buying scorpions. Something and is going to happen.