Madagascan scorps

XOskeletonRED

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Indeed, a most excellent coloration. Any means of contacting anyone this time of day? I'm sure most everyone is prolly sleeping or getting ready for work and even there already.

edw.
 

phoenixxavierre

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one extra observation

Hi again :D

One little extra observation is that these behave as if they are terrestrial. I haven't seen any efforts to burrow other than their attempts to hide under the moss I have in the deli cup. None have attempted to dig.

The other species I have is pure black, like little tiny emperors with thinner claws, and are definitely burrowers!!

I'll get new pics on here soon!

Take care,

Paul
 

Cronoss

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After closer inspectoin of my breeding group C.gracilis.
I'm gonna have to agree with Kugellager it does look
more like C. margaritatas.
But is Definitely a Centruroides sp.
 

XOskeletonRED

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Well, Paul,
I have posted a query on the yahoo groups, so we'll have to see what comes up there. Do you have any pics avail. on this solid black burrowing scorpion? C. gracilis is not a burrowing scorpion. Due cause: they are bark scorpions and tend to find hides, rather than to build their own. I'd be most interested to see what else you currently have as far as this black scorp goes. Ya never know, I may get you to include some of them to my growing list of scorps I am getting from you. *lol*

adios,
edw. :D
 

phoenixxavierre

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florida scorp

These little guys were sold to me as florida scorps, and came along with what is pictured above (sold to me as madagascan scorps). Anyway, I thought maybe they were switched accidentally or something! lol!

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Paul
 

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phoenixxavierre

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on the last pic I posted you can tell how tiny it is, as that circle to the left of the picture is a hole in a deli cup!

Here's another pic. These little guys and gals are hard to photograph, as they are prone to move around, and don't hold still for much longer than a second. Also, I've noticed that they are scavengers, as I found them feeding on meal worms that recently died in their enclosure (perhaps from a sting?).
 

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Kugellager

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Look like juvenile Opistophthalmus sp. Definitely from the family Scorpionidae and not buthidae. All documented FL sp are Buthids of the Centruroides species with the exception of Vejovis carolinianus.

C.gracilis
C.hentzi
C.keysi
C.bahiensis (probably introduced from bahamas)

V.carolinianus

Reports of

C.vittatus and I.maculatus but they may have been isolated pockets of introduced individuals or mislabeled specimens.


Joh
];')
 

phoenixxavierre

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Hi John,

Thanks for the info!

These little ones are most definitely burrowers. Does that click with V. carolinianus? Aren't most bark scorps terrestrial or semi-arboreal?

These are a mere inch in size.

Thanks again!

Paul
 

Kugellager

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Most bark scorps are climbers which is why they have such a problem with them in northern and central Mexico as the most prevalent species are Centruroides.

Your little ones look like old world of the Scorpionidae family. Here is a pic of Vaejovis carolinianus. Note the distinct triangular shape of its head compare to your babues.

http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/photos/v_carolinianus.jpg

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Urban/scorpion.htm

Yours look more like Opistophthalmus or Pandinus sp.

John
];')
 

XOskeletonRED

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Indeed, John. I thought they were Scorpionidae as well. I did tell Paul, I thought they looked more like Scorpionidae than Buthidae when he sent the pics to me. The pedipalps are too closely shaped to Heterometrus species to be Buthids. I still think they are Heterometrus scorpions, though I have never seen any, other than spiniferis or longimanus, that it could be. Then again, Paul did say they were jet black and more glossy than P. imperator. They are probably H. spiniferis, but H. spiniferis would probably be burrowing since he's had them for a few days now. H. longimanus do have the tendency to not burrow as much or as quickly as spinifer though, so this could, without a doubt, be longimanus.

adios,
edw. :)
 
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phoenixxavierre

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HI guys,

After looking at the pics of V. carolinianus, I've noticed that the tail on the ones I have are much, much thinner than the scorps pictured.

These were supposedly collected in Florida, so I'm wondering if there are Opistophthalmus species or Pandinus species in Florida.

What can I look for to narrow down these two species? I believe that the collection data was correct, but I will get back with the distributors and press them for more info (hopefully they'll remember, lol!)

Oh, and Edward, these are as glossy as P. imperator, but not more so. Also, as soon as I provided them with dirt they dug burrows, and either hide inside them or sit with their little claws sticking out. Sometimes they even completely bury themselves, and then pop up out of the substrate if disturbed, as if to check out what is causing the disturbance (i.e., blowing lightly on the substrate or sometimes merely popping the deli cup lid off).

Thankyou for all of your efforts at identifying these guys! Could someone possibly direct me to descriptive papers on the suspected species or perhaps shoot me a key so I can try to id them? Or I can attempt to take pictures at particular angles, in particular lighting, with particular backgrounds, per your requests.

Cheers,

Paul
 

skinheaddave

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Originally posted by phoenixxavierre
These were supposedly collected in Florida, so I'm wondering if there are Opistophthalmus species or Pandinus species in Florida.
...
I believe that the collection data was correct
No and no. If that scorpion was collected from Florida, they must have its natural range listed as somewhere inside of a store. There's nothing in the US that even closely resembles that guy.

Cheers,
Dave
 

conipto

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Hey, odd newbie question, after reading many a thread similar to this one. On the opthisoma, do all buthids have the sharp anglular look? For instance, in the pic of C. margaritatas that Kugellager pictured, on the edges of the segments, there seem to be black vertical lines. Is this a buthid characteristic?

Bill
 

XOskeletonRED

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Paul,

Dave Gaban is also in agreement and leaning towards C. gracilis on the first scorp as his opinion can be found on the Yahoo! group's Scorpionfans list as well.


adios,
edw. :)
 
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phoenixxavierre

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Awesome, Edward!

I've read over everyone's posts more than once, and somehow Steve 055's post didn't quite sink in about the color variations within the species, until today, lol! Just an example of my scatterbrained thickheadedness! hehe!

Very interesting! Seems all the pros are in agreement, I just wish I had some sort of a key to id these buggers, since I have them on hand (and I'm picking up a pocket microscope soon hopefully, from Radio Shack).

I trust what you all are saying, and I greatly appreciate the input as you all are WAAYYY more experienced than I am in identification of scorps! I guess my lack of faith lies in my own photography abilities! Thus, the repeated questioning, lol!

I know how hard it can be with some species to id from a pic alone, and that's one reason why I'm itching to learn about taxonomy of scorps (amongst other arthropods).

Does anyone know if there is an online resource similar to Platnick's only about scorps, with references and such? or somewhere where I can obtain original descriptive papers of scorpion species? Of course, obtaining these will probably bring many, many more questions to mind, so be forewarned!! heheh!

Much, much thanks!!

Take care,

Paul

PS If you want these C. gracilis, Ed, please let me know! :)

Bill, I would answer your question if I knew the answer (and I wish I did!) but I'll leave that to the pros, since I don't! ;)
 

phoenixxavierre

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Hi all,

Okay, not to run this thread into the ground, but I have heard through the grapevine that there IS a species of Grosphus from Madagascar that looks alot like C. gracilis, nearly identical.

Is anyone familiar with this species of Grosphus?


TIA,

Paul
 

XOskeletonRED

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Grosphus madagascarensis' pedipalps are too thick. Your scorps have very narrow peds which is a trait seen in many Buthids, but not in any Grosphus from Madagascar. There are others from there as well...G. flavopiceus and G. limbatus, at least, maybe and probably more. None of the others I have photography of even come close in appearance. G. madagascarensis is almost identical, but the peds, like I said, are way off.

adios,
edw. :D
 

Kugellager

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Grosphus flavopiceus and G. limbatus also are found in mada gascar...G.limbatus might also be found on the mainland too.

John
];')

Oops!...repetition...sigh

Female G.madagascariensis about 1.5-2" long
 

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phoenixxavierre

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Hi all,

Just a quick update, and again, thanks for all of your expert opinions!

I'm working on verifying the info given to me as far as location collected. I should find out something by Monday and in the ensuing weeks hopefully.

In the meantime I'm wondering if C. gracilis is dimorphic (not in coloration but in pedipalp length).

I talked to someone in Florida who has collected, kept and bred a few hundred C. gracilis, and he says he has never seen a single one with pedipalps of that length.

So now I'm wondering if it's a variation, hybrid, or simply an undescribed species.

Cheers,

Paul
 
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