Madagascan scorps

[phoenixxavierre]

Hi all,

Anyone recognize this species?

Cheers,

Paul

 

[phoenixxavierre]

here's another pic

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Hey Paul,

They look like Centruroides margaritatus. Any suggestions from anyone else?

adios,
edw.

 

[Cronoss]

could it be Centruroides gracilis?

 

[steve055]

yes its Centruroides margaritatus. IMO

 

[XOskeletonRED]

My fault,
Indeed, Cronoss, it does appear to be closer to C. gracilis coloration. C. margaritatus tends to have lighter coloration prior to connection of the pedipalps, whereas C. gracilis tends have the darker coloration continuance throughout.

Steve055, what similarities do you notice between this species and margaritatus and as well, the same with gracilis?


Thanks,
edw.

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Perhaps this pic I took will give us some ideas. This is C. margaritatus...fact.

adios,
edw.

 

[steve055]

If it is garcilis then the common name if way off, unless these were introduced into Madagascar. They have been intoduced in other parts of africa, but not near Madagascar that i know of. Then again Centruroides margaritatus is not in africa to my knowledge. You are right about the colors, at first look i thought C. margaritatus, but the color over all seems to dark. Also the palps seem to round, more bulbous. So lean toward garcilis also after looking closer. Also i found this quote on the scopion files,
"There are several color forms wich commonly occur together in the same population (even the same female can give birth scorplings with all these color forms together in the same litter):

1) Entire blackish animal with deep red hands.
2) Entire reddish animal.
3) Prosoma, mesosoma and metasoma very dark brown, legs yellowish to reddish brown, pedipalps dark brown witn red hands & black fingers.
4) Prosoma & mesosoma dark brown with a pale median longitudinal band, caudal segments I-IV reddish brown, caudal segment V & telson blackish, legs yellowish, pedipalps orange brown.
As most of you know scorps can have a wide range of morphs and the morphs above are Similar to what is seen in your pics. Then again we could all be wrong

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Most definitely. And you chose a great reference for us all, Steve. Thanks.

Paul, we're all gonna have to go with C. gracilis on this pic. Though, as Steve055 obviously pointed out, we could all easily be incorrect due to the ability of color morphs from even a single litter of scorps.

If anyone else has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

adios,
edw.

 

[phoenixxavierre]

Hi Edward, Cronoss, Steve,

Thankyou much for your opinions! I appreciate it a great deal!

The first pic was taken with sunlight shining directly on the scorps. The second was taken in a well lit area with sunshine nearby but not shining directly on. I'm not sure if this would have any effect on the color in the picture, but if so I can take another pic with no sunshine whatsoever. I think I'll do that anyway!

So where are C. gracilis and C. margaritus found normally?

I was sent some scorps from Florida and some from Madagascar. Could it be possible that these were incorrectly labeled? I'll post some of the others and if you guys could tell me what you think, that would be great!

Again, thankyou for your experienced opinions! I know with pics sometimes it can be difficult!

Take care,

Paul
'

 

[Kugellager]

Definitely C.margaritatas.

Check out my pic of one. Not the triangular pattern on the abdomen just before the first tail segment in bouth your pic and my pic.

C.gracilis is found in southern and central Florida as well as Central America and northern-most South America...the venom of the CA species is said to be deadly while the venom in the FL individuals is not very dangerous.

C.margaritatas is found in Central America and Northern-most S america.

All of the C.gracilis I have seen have been an even chocolate color.

John
];')

 

[phoenixxavierre]

C. margaritatus?

hi guys,

I've looked over the pics and compared with what I have, and I've noticed some small differences.

1) The chela on these scorps aren't quite as bulbous as the ones pictured.

2) The scorps chela on the species I have is a lighter color on the bulbous part, similar to the legs, also the tips of the chela are a lighter color, like the legs.

3) The tail is a black/gray color with no reddish/brownish color, such as the legs have.

4) On the dorsal side of the scorpions body is a line of very small dots/lines? going down the center of the scorp, that are the coloration of the legs.

On another note, I've noticed one has an injured pincher, looks to be broken and useless. I have never considered amputation of a limb before on any of my scorps until now, but I have a feeling I should probably just let it be and avoid messing things up worse!

Thanks for all your help and please let me know if these things I've noticed make any difference. I'll also try to take pictures on a white background and on a black background to compare.

Thanks again for all of your help! And thankyou, too, John!

Cheers,

Paul

 

[XOskeletonRED]

I did notice the variation, though Paul's seem to not have quite as rough of a pattern as the scorp you and I have both posted. At a quick glance, I thought it was C. margaritatus, but after looking more closely at a photo provided on the scorpion files of the C. gracilis, I still must lean towards it. It also has the triangular pattern before the first tail segment, though it is not quite as noticeable, which is what I am currently seeing in Paul's pic. In the photographs of C. margaritatus, the tri pattern is much more defined. I think C. margaritatus just happens to be of a lighter shade variation in these pics making the tri pattern appear to stand out more. Then again, Paul did say he took the photos in bright light, so the same situation should arrise, it should be more noticeable than any of the other photographs. The palps also seem to have more bulk on C. margaritatus females than this photo seems to show also. Indeed, Paul, just as you said on the chelicerae as well being as your species have more bulbous examples. The entire tergite also appears to be more smooth in Paul's example than in mine. Also something I have noticed about C. gracilis.

I'll post a link to each of the pics I am viewing so you can see what I am noticing.

http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/c_gracilis4.jpg

http://www.ub.ntnu.no/scorpion-files/c_margaritatus.jpg


Thanks,
edw. :? I still think it was a mislabeled gracilis, Paul.

C'mon, more opinions people!!!

 

[phoenixxavierre]

another note

Hello again,

I noticed something else upon close inspection, that being that the venom gland on the end of the telson appears to have a thorn type structure below the stinger. It almost looks like a double stinger, but the second "stinger" is very tiny! like maybe a millimeter in length. Is this normal in the above mentioned species?

Ed, by the chela size I'd say C. gracilis, however, this scorp I have sports the slightly lighter coloration on the chela and tips of chela and the tail is pretty much the color of the body. Is this color variation normal in the above mentioned species?

Thanks again and again!! And again!!

Take care,

Paul

 

[Kugellager]

Paul has a good point there. The chela are very different. The pic I added Is a male and it looks like in ed's pics there is a male and a female...none of which has chela that are nearly so elongate. I lookad at all the C.margaritatas pics on the Scorpion files site and they all had the more bulbous chela like in ed's and my pic.

I still think it is some sort of Cemtruroides. The C.gracilis chela are more elongate but don't appear as elongate as the individuals in your pics.

John
];')

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Hey, Paul, did you just say it has a subaculear spine??? (the little second non-developed stinger???)

Kug, does your C. marg have a subaculear spine? I saw a scorp posted as C. marg on the scorpion files that had one, though I think it was an incorrectly labeled scorp. I've never seen a C. marg that had one.


edw.

 

[phoenixxavierre]

Originally posted by XOskeletonRED
Hey, Paul, did you just say it has a subaculear spine??? (the little second non-developed stinger???


edw.

Yes, Edward, it most certainly does! Does that mean anything?? :?

Take care,

Paul

 

[phoenixxavierre]

additional note of thanks

Hi guys,

I REALLY appreciate you all helping me figure out what these are! It's quite a learning experience! So thankyou thankyou thankyou!! You guys are awesome!



Paul

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Well, Paul, it just means that we get someone the the World Catalog, etc., and find out which species of Centruroides from that area, and that fit the description, do have the subaculear spine. We can hopefully narrow it down from there.

We deserve not such a compliment. Thank you!
I'm gonna hop over to the yahoo groups and see who I can find. I may just e-mail you Paul.



edw. =D

 

[Kugellager]

If they are C.gracilis the color variations is really nice.

John
];')