Look at those little guys...

[Adnan]

but for making pictures it RULES

Ohhh, yeahh!

 

[blacktara]

Curious what the guy who is trying to breed these thinks of this one

http://home.planet.nl/~noor2201/pn2.jpg <P>

In my personal opinion, the owner of that thumb is a leading candidate for a Darwin Award - (most likely to remove themselves from the gene pool as a direct consequence of their own stupidity, for those who arent familiar with the Darwins)

 

[Adnan]

Well, I think its a fake image!

 

[Randolph XX()]

was that a dead one?

 

[Adnan]

Dead guy or dead spider?

Maybe a Photo-montage... looks fake to me.

 

[Steven]

Are you guys sure the spider on that picture is a Phoneutria ? :?
The picture doesn't look fake to me,...

just wondering how you can tell if it's a Phoneutria and no other spider on that picture ( you can't see the Eyes or carapax,... or isn't that necesarry ?)

 

[Adnan]

Looks like a Phoneutria for sure... but still looks fake to me!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Is this image a fake?

 

[blacktara]

Looks to me

Like youve got the enclosure tilted up and laying your hand against the glass <P>

How did I do?

 

[blacktara]

From the same page as the other one

http://home.planet.nl/~noor2201/pn1.jpg <P>

That's a real Phoneutria for sure - doesnt authenticate the second pic of course

 

[Steven]

Is this image a fake?

yes


mmmm, or maybe not :razz:

the light on the spider and your hand just doesn't seem to be right :?

 

[Steven]

http://home.planet.nl/~noor2201/pn1.jpg <P>

That's a real Phoneutria for sure - doesnt authenticate the second pic of course

the site you're getting those pictures from is Dutch,... quite sure the guy holding the spider and the spider in the grass are not from around my region

 

[blacktara]

Now what may be a silly question

Would it be POSSIBLE that if one kept totally still and waited for the spider to climb on and off of its own will, that it would think of your hand as "surface" and therefore not attack it, or do they sense heat in some way or would they be able to recognize by the hair on your skin that you are "animal" and thereore immediately see you as either threat or prey? <P>

I almost said "organic" instead of "animal" there but then realized that they dont attack foliage or the bark of trees. <P>

Anyway, that first pic looks real to me - the way the legs fit onto the thumb, and the spider's position doesnt look like a posed dead one - <P>

Maybe the guy figured the potential suffering was worth the notoriety?

 

[blacktara]

By the way

What's the latest news on your little rascals? Still doing well ?

 

[Adnan]

Would it be POSSIBLE that if one kept totally still and waited for the spider to climb on and off of its own will, that it would think of your hand as "surface" and therefore not attack it

Yes, its possible... but the spiders of this genus are really fast and sometimes they run with no reason... Its a very bad idea.

 

[Adnan]

What's the latest news on your little rascals? Still doing well ?

Yes, they are so fat now!

 

[Adnan]

No fake this time!

 

[Wade]

Would it be POSSIBLE that if one kept totally still and waited for the spider to climb on and off of its own will, that it would think of your hand as "surface" and therefore not attack it, or do they sense heat in some way or would they be able to recognize by the hair on your skin that you are "animal" and thereore immediately see you as either threat or prey? <P>

I almost said "organic" instead of "animal" there but then realized that they dont attack foliage or the bark of trees. <P>

Anyway, that first pic looks real to me - the way the legs fit onto the thumb, and the spider's position doesnt look like a posed dead one - <P>

Maybe the guy figured the potential suffering was worth the notoriety?

Generally speaking, a spider that is alowed to walk on you unimpeded will not bite. I don't know if this is true for Phoneutria or not, but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. This is the great secret of all those "look at me hold a P. murinus" pictures you see on the tarantula forums, which inevitably get two types of responses: the "wow you're so brave" and the "gee you're so stupid". Niether description is really correct, but the handler could be accused of being a show off at the very least.

There's still a risk involved because these are very fast spiders and may decide to dash up an arm and into a sleeve and then things could get dicey. They could also jump off thehand and escape...also bad. Also, a spider that's already been agitated by being moved around might be more likley to bite in circumstances where it normally wouldn't.

We can only speculate as to why spiders don't bite in these situations. Do they think we're just some warm, soft, moving tree? Are their brains so simple that they cannot grasp the concept of being on annother creature thats vastly larger than themselves? Are they aware that a bite would lead to the larger creature defending itself and getting themselves smashed? No way to know. Evolution has probably not equipped them with ways to respond to these wacky primates who don't want to eat them but do want to hold them.

Wade

 

[Adnan]

...or do they sense heat in some way or would they be able to recognize by the hair on your skin that you are "animal" and thereore immediately see you as either threat or prey? <P>

The big guy of the last photo doesn´t like the contact with my hand... I dont now how an adult can react to this situation...

 

[blacktara]

Some more questions and comments about phoneutria

1- What are the visual differences between Fera and Nigriventer?
2- Which is the one found in and around Sao Paolo? I had read somewhere it was Fera, but from scrolling these threads, I am thinking that's wrong?
3- What's the real scoop on their "temperment"? They are big, fairly sturyd spiders who ambush or chase down prey and have potent venom, so it's not surprising that they would not be timid, but arent the reports of how aggressive they are just a wee bit overstated? I think people get bitten when they accidentally put hands or feet near a spider they dont know is there - like in a glove or shoe where a male has hidden for the day after a night's wanderings. That spider might see your foot as prey, but more likely as a serious threat to its life, and it bites because well, it knows it doesnt have to run away. But "aggressive" or "vicious" or "mean" as I've heard them being described. I hardly think Phoneutria wakes up in the morning and thinks "I'm gonna go find some people to bite today"
4- The rumors and legends and myths here are multiple. If you look at a lot of websites, they quote the same few sources. Words like "lethal" are tossed around like candy instead of the more correct "dangerous and potentially fatal" - I've read poppycock like these guys people able to jump 30" from a standing start, and wives tales of banana pickers hacking their limbs off on the spot after a bite - This stuff ranks up there with the hook killer who stalks lovers lane or the gangs who dope you up and leave you in a tub of ice water with a kidney missing that they've hacked out to sell to organ transplant centers
5- Read the accounts of people who find spiders in their bananas - They'll say that the spider "pops ou" or "shoots out" - (heck ya, wouldnt you if you've been shipped overseas in a fruit crate?) - and then heads for a dark crevice in the house - That's not a vicious killer looking to do bodily harm - it's a frightened likely starving and stressed critter that is following survival instinct
6- Any personal accounts out there from somehow who has gotten tagged by one of these beasties?

 

[Crotalus]

1- What are the visual differences between Fera and Nigriventer?

Locality is a must have. Fera do not occur naturally in the atlantic coast. And fera is somewhat lighter in color and a little larger, but thats no good in determine the species cos nigriventer and fera can vary in color. But for a 100% ID you need the identification keys, and dead spiders plus a microscope.

2- Which is the one found in and around Sao Paolo? I had read somewhere it was Fera, but from scrolling these threads, I am thinking that's wrong?

Wrong. Its nigriventer.

3- What's the real scoop on their "temperment"? They are big, fairly sturyd spiders who ambush or chase down prey and have potent venom, so it's not surprising that they would not be timid, but arent the reports of how aggressive they are just a wee bit overstated? I think people get bitten when they accidentally put hands or feet near a spider they dont know is there - like in a glove or shoe where a male has hidden for the day after a night's wanderings. That spider might see your foot as prey, but more likely as a serious threat to its life, and it bites because well, it knows it doesnt have to run away. But "aggressive" or "vicious" or "mean" as I've heard them being described. I hardly think Phoneutria wakes up in the morning and thinks "I'm gonna go find some people to bite today"

They are very unpredictable spiders, can be very aggressive and bite tweezer etc. They climb on anything and are very fast moving spiders.
Yeah offcourse no spider in the world ambush people and activly hunts us down to bite us. Accidents is happening when these spider get into houses and hide in a shoe for example. No they are not footeaters, they are about to get crushed in the shoe so offcourse they try to defend themselfs.
I do use the word "aggressive" , as in using aggression to defend themselfs. I know many dont like that word, but in nature alot of animals use just fullfrontal aggression to get rid of a potential predator. While "mean" or "vicious" are not applied on animals.

4- The rumors and legends and myths here are multiple. If you look at a lot of websites, they quote the same few sources. Words like "lethal" are tossed around like candy instead of the more correct "dangerous and potentially fatal" - I've read poppycock like these guys people able to jump 30" from a standing start, and wives tales of banana pickers hacking their limbs off on the spot after a bite - This stuff ranks up there with the hook killer who stalks lovers lane or the gangs who dope you up and leave you in a tub of ice water with a kidney missing that they've hacked out to sell to organ transplant centers

They are dangerous to the point you might die. Thats a fact.
Myths surrounding venomous animals are not only about Phoneutria - theres plenty of myths about ordinary tarantulas... like jumping a great distance etc.

5- Read the accounts of people who find spiders in their bananas - They'll say that the spider "pops ou" or "shoots out" - (heck ya, wouldnt you if you've been shipped overseas in a fruit crate?) - and then heads for a dark crevice in the house - That's not a vicious killer looking to do bodily harm - it's a frightened likely starving and stressed critter that is following survival instinct

Yes. Offcourse.

6- Any personal accounts out there from somehow who has gotten tagged by one of these beasties?

Thankfully I havent.

/Lelle