Lmao!

[Fran]

Respectfully, by this logic:

you really shouldn't ad the T to a domestic environment at all. I mean, the ping-pong ball is not really where the line of natural or unnatural is drawn, is it? Why do we keep the T in the first place? For personal enjoyment or for the tarantula's benefit?

Of course, the moment you take a tarantula and put her in a tank, you are not doing her a favor and is not most ideal for her, but logically, providing her with the minimun stress and optimal cares will be the next best thing.

Because giving her an strange egg sack look alike object like a ball doesnt seem to do any good besides stressing and consfusing her, I wouldnt do it myself.

 

[BrettG]

Give it up people. They are stressed enough having to live with us in cages/kk's,dealing with odd lighting and hours,sounds,other pets and such.. The darn ball is not going to kill it or make it's life a living hell.It is the least of it's worries..Geez. A debate about anything and everything with some of you on here.It's not like it is a lit cherrybomb that it is rolling around .

 

[Big B]

Of course, the moment you take a tarantula and put her in a tank, you are not doing her a favor and is not most ideal for her, but logically, providing her with the minimun stress and optimal cares will be the next best thing.

Because giving her an strange egg sack look alike object like a ball doesnt seem to do any good besides stressing and consfusing her, I wouldnt do it myself.

I agree on this 100%

 

[xhexdx]

Give it up people. They are stressed enough having to live with us in cages/kk's,dealing with odd lighting and hours,sounds,other pets and such.. The darn ball is not going to kill it or make it's life a living hell.It is the least of it's worries..Geez. A debate about anything and everything with some of you on here.It's not like it is a lit cherrybomb that it is rolling around .

What's wrong with a debate?

Seems like everyone is keeping their composure...people aren't calling each other names, etc.

I see nothing wrong with it.

Again, that's just me.

 

[Henry Kane]

I wouldnt do it myself.

Understood. Yet, someone would surely judge even you and your keeping methods...or that you keep T's at all. Keep them the way you see fit. But, judging others for something as trivial is a double standard.

Respectfully.

 

[BrettG]

What's wrong with a debate?

Seems like everyone is keeping their composure...people aren't calling each other names, etc.

I see nothing wrong with it.

Again, that's just me.

Since you are one of the people on this site that I actually have respect for,I will give you an honest answer. It just gets old. It gets in the way of usefull information IMHO,and SOME people here get the underoos in a bunch and turn ANYTHING into a debate.I agree debates can be good in some instances,and a lot can be learned/shared,but this,again,IMHO,didnt need to go to three + pages over a ping pong ball.I am not helping matters by even posting in this thread,but that just what is on my mind Joe.Now I will just sit back and see how many people hold what I just said against me

 

[xhexdx]

Understood. Yet, someone would surely judge even you and your keeping methods...or that you keep T's at all. Keep them the way you see fit. But, judging others for something as trivial is a double standard.

Respectfully.

Realistically, everyone judges everyone for everything, all the time. There's no real way around it. There are always people who will disagree with how you do things, and you will always disagree with how other people do things. It's life.

Again, while I wouldn't personally stick a ping-pong ball in there for the spider to investigate/play with/whatever you choose to call it, that doesn't necessarily mean it is harmful to the spider, or that it shouldn't be done. As far as my feelings towards this thread are concerned, I voiced my views, we are discussing it, and that's great.

Kudos to everyone (including me) for keeping things civil. Hopefully we can continue this trend. Heh.

--Joe

 

[BrettG]

Realistically, everyone judges everyone for everything, all the time. There's no real way around it. There are always people who will disagree with how you do things, and you will always disagree with how other people do things. It's life.

Again, while I wouldn't personally stick a ping-pong ball in there for the spider to investigate/play with/whatever you choose to call it, that doesn't necessarily mean it is harmful to the spider, or that it shouldn't be done. As far as my feelings towards this thread are concerned, I voiced my views, we are discussing it, and that's great.

Kudos to everyone (including me) for keeping things civil. Hopefully we can continue this trend. Heh.

--Joe

I actually agree with you 100%

 

[xhexdx]

I actually agree with you 100%

Excellent. My evil plan is working!

Re: 3+ pages over a ping-pong ball. You're right. I think at this point, we can leave it at "agree to disagree", as most threads of this nature turn in to anyway.

--Joe

 

[Fran]

Understood. Yet, someone would surely judge even you and your keeping methods...or that you keep T's at all. Keep them the way you see fit. But, judging others for something as trivial is a double standard.

Respectfully.

I dont really see the double standard. Understanding that keeping them in captivity is not the best for them, saying that extra stress wont do them any good is prefectly fine imo, and a good advice to give.
It is proven that animals unders stress do poorly in captivity.

 

[Henry Kane]

Realistically, everyone judges everyone for everything, all the time. There's no real way around it. There are always people who will disagree with how you do things, and you will always disagree with how other people do things. It's life.--Joe

Yep. My point was pretty much that, to those judging a little bit harshly. While they judge, they are subject to the same. In as trivial a light as the ball, they are subject to judgment as trivial themselves. Judgment as trivial convolutes tangible right and wrong (and probably stresses the new keeper more than it does the T sometimes). That's why I think it's silly to get all PETA over the ping-pong ball.

I respect everyone's feelings on this. I enjoy reading these views and understanding the person better through this. Expressing these views with an attitude of superiority, of judging with diminishment (hence the PETA reference) isn't really the same though, is it?
Simply put, the person with the T who plays ball is not obviously a better or worse keeper than anyone against it. Just interacts differently.

Judging and opinions are normal and expected. As with any form of social interaction though, delivery and intent account for a lot.

 

[Henry Kane]

I dont really see the double standard. Understanding that keeping them in captivity is not the best for them, saying that extra stress wont do them any good is prefectly fine imo, and a good advice to give.
It is proven that animals unders stress do poorly in captivity.

The double standard lies in thinking that one form of stress is acceptable, while another deserves to be looked down upon. Please keep in mind that I don't think proper captivity or the ping pong ball are necessarily stressful, you do.
In your opinoin, this view is fine? Cool by me. I'm sure your T's are just as healthy as the one that plays ball, and that's great.

And, I agree that discouraging extra stress is good advice. Where is the stress in this case though? What specific signs of detriment do you see in this picture that are not subjective at best?

Someone not doing their research before keeping a T, someone keeping it on sand when it's a tropical species, someone asking for advice and arguing the feedback... <-- these are obviously stressful keeping methods. A ping-pong ball though? C'mon, Fran. Have there not been enough legitimately bad keepers around here to come down on lately?

The OP left the post open to criticism, no doubt. It just seems like the appropriate time for either critique or reprimand gets confused sometimes.

Respectfully.

 

[Fran]

The double standard lies in thinking that one form of stress is acceptable, while another deserves to be looked down upon. Please keep in mind that I don't think proper captivity or the ping pong ball are necessarily stressful, you do.
In your opinoin, this view is fine? Cool by me. I'm sure your T's are just as healthy as the one that plays ball, and that's great.

And, I agree that discouraging extra stress is good advice. Where is the stress in this case though? What specific signs of detriment do you see in this picture that are not subjective at best?

Someone not doing their research before keeping a T, someone keeping it on sand when it's a tropical species, someone asking for advice and arguing the feedback... <-- these are obviously stressful keeping methods. A ping-pong ball though? C'mon, Fran. Have there not been enough legitimately bad keepers around here to come down on lately?

The OP left the post open to criticism, no doubt. It just seems like the appropriate time for either critique or reprimand gets confused sometimes.

Respectfully.

I know what you mean, and I agree on a part of it, but I think you are reading what im saying wrong.

Im not accepting any form of unusefull stress, neither I practice it.
When I have to lift the top of the tank to feed my t's,thats a stress that Is necessary. To give the tarantula a ball egg sack look alike and watch her stress over it, is not a necessary stress.

Now you are talking about what is stressant about that video. Well, yes in the end is subjetive since we cant personally talk to the tarantula asking for her thoughts...But as I said, to me, the tarantula looks pretty obviously confused over it, that means she is stressing over it, and there is no reason for it.

Of course, to put a ball in the enclosure is not gonna means instant death for your pet,and I dont mean to make it seem like the ultimate wrong for the tarantula care or get all "PETA" about it, but again is an stress (Big or small) totally unnecessary.

 

[paul fleming]

I know what you mean, and I agree on a part of it, but I think you are reading what im saying wrong.

Im not accepting any form of unusefull stress, neither I practice it.
When I have to lift the top of the tank to feed my t's,thats a stress that Is necessary. To give the tarantula a ball egg sack look alike and watch her stress over it, is not a necessary stress.

Now you are talking about what is stressant about that video. Well, yes in the end is subjetive since we cant personally talk to the tarantula asking for her thoughts...But as I said, to me, the tarantula looks pretty obviously confused over it, that means she is stressing over it, and there is no reason for it.

Of course, to put a ball in the enclosure is not gonna means instant death for your pet,and I dont mean to make it seem like the ultimate wrong for the tarantula care or get all "PETA" about it, but again is an stress (Big or small) totally unnecessary.

Keeping a wild animal (tarantula) in capitivity has to put stress on it anyway
I accept that and still keep them.
How would you feel if you were locked in a glass tank.....I don't think throwing you a ball would make that much difference to the stress level.
We have to accept our hobby for what it is and I do not think we are doing the T's any big favours being wild animals.
This is purely for our benefit and not theirs.......unlike domestic pets of course.

 

[Fran]

Keeping a wild animal (tarantula) in capitivity has to put stress on it anyway
I accept that and still keep them.
How would you feel if you were locked in a glass tank.....I don't think throwing you a ball would make that much difference to the stress level.
We have to accept our hobby for what it is and I do not think we are doing the T's any big favours being wild animals.
This is purely for our benefit and not theirs.......unlike domestic pets of course.

So you are just comparing a theraphosid with a human being.
Please,agreeing or disagreeing is fine, just lets make sense.

 

[paul fleming]

So you are just comparing a theraphosid with a human being.
Please,agree or disagree is fine, just lets make sense.

If you can't accept a difference of opinion.....forget it.
What part made no sense .....I kept it simple for you ?

 

[Fran]

If you can't accept a difference of opinion.....forget it.
What part made no sense .....I kept it simple for you ?

To make the comparison between the amussement a human being in a glass tank can get with a ping pong ball and a tarantula in a tank, is at the very least, absolutely stupid.

 

[paul fleming]

To make the comparison between the amussement a human being in a glass tank can get with a ping pong ball and a tarantula in a tank, is at the very least, absolutely stupid.

Let me explain again....I will go a bit slower this time for you.
Keeping any animal in a glass tank.......me,you,spider......anything except maybe a fish but that is open to debate is stressful.
If you are stressed out,a ball is not going to make that much difference.
ps....notice you made no reply to the first part of my answer

Keeping a wild animal (tarantula) in capitivity has to put stress on it anyway
I accept that and still keep them.
We have to accept our hobby for what it is and I do not think we are doing the T's any big favours being wild animals.
This is purely for our benefit and not theirs

 

[Fran]

Since you are being an arse and showing stupid offensive attitude (on top of the fact that the one not getting it is you,no matter how many times I tell you that a human being and a spider are totally different beings, with different characteristics and different levels of inteligence) Im done with you at this point.
Next time learn to have a civilized manner to express your point of view or it wont be me the one answering.

Theres nothing worse than being an ignorant with a bad attitude.

 

[xhexdx]

To summarize:

You can't compare a human to a tarantula. From a taxonomy standpoint, the most we have in common is Kingdom...