Live or Dead?

[da_illest]

Originally posted by Obscenity
If you're keeping more than a few animals that need to eat pinkies, you'd probably be better off breeding your own mice. As for your snake not having eaten in 2-3 weeks, I wouldn't be worried about it. I've had some snakes that wouldn't eat for months. Unless they appear noticably thinner, it's nothing to worry about, usually.

Joe

thanks a lot!

 

[da_illest]

also, is it true that feeding live can make a snake more aggresive?

 

[Phillip]

It can make them more prone to bite simply due to them becoming used to eating moving prey. Often once a snake has been on frozen for a while they will shy away from striking at something that moves including fingers. This of course is not always the case but it does seem to make a difference.

Phil

 

[atavuss]

Originally posted by DavidBeard
LOL...ok, you all may do as you wish. I should've known better than to argue REPTILE husbandry on an INVERT forum.

you seem to know nothing of how long many of us have been keeping reptiles, get a clue before you make baseless accusations.
Ed

 

[da_illest]

Originally posted by Phillip
It can make them more prone to bite simply due to them becoming used to eating moving prey. Often once a snake has been on frozen for a while they will shy away from striking at something that moves including fingers. This of course is not always the case but it does seem to make a difference.

Phil

thanks, that's what i figured but i have a sand boa who's always burrowed.. i've tried so far 3-4 times by putting F/T pinkies in it's tank and it won't eat them... it's been hungry for a few days too... i can't get live at the moment.. the pet store keeps saying monday, oh no tuesday, sorry they didn't come in, thursday, the guys unreliable, etc...

also, what's the pro's and cons of feeding out of it's enclosure?

 

[da_illest]

Originally posted by DavidBeard
Well.....if I wanted to get my car fixed, I wouldn't go to a Restaurant now would I?

what if it was a restaurant with a garage in the back and certified mechanics working there?

 

[Phillip]

The pros of feeding in a different container are less chance of ingested substrate and usually a less prone to bite snake. They can become programmed to bite if the only time a hand comes into their home it means food. Also the smell of prey in the enclosure combined with your warmth and movement can set them off. Granted some snakes don't bite either way and some do but it lessens the chance when they are fed in a container other than their home.

The only negative to it is having to pick them up and put them in another container as well as having to put them back when they are done feeding.

Phil

 

[Lycanthrope]

Frozen doesn't eliminate the chance of parasitic transfer. It lowers it greatly and is certainly the way to go but there are parasites that freezing doesn't get rid of

I don't mean to hijak the thread, but do you have any idea what specific parasites freezing doen't kill? I would think it would kill most roundworms and pinworms. I know tapeworm cysts can resist all kinds of temperatures and chemicals.

 

[Phillip]

I couldn't say for sure which ones survive. I have just read over the years that a few of them don't die when freezing. The majority of them that are of concern perish but not all types.

Phil

 

[Malkavian]

I feed live for the time being. With my smaller snakes I've never had any problems with mice bites, however now that my pythons are taking large rats i'm sortof considering it. Problem is there's no where around here to get frozen rats without getting raped on the price or hvaing to buy a freezer full at once. I've also tried strips of chicken, but not had much luck getting them to accep that

Not to mention i'm not sure my mom would tolerate froze rats in her freezer.

I actually did have a bite incident a few months ago, but it was minor.

(I have carpet pythons for those of you who dont know, just about 1.5 meters long each)

 

[LPacker79]

The only negative to it is having to pick them up and put them in another container as well as having to put them back when they are done feeding.

Phil, when feeding them in a seperate container, how long do you wait before putting them back in their home? I'm getting a JCP in June and just want all my facts straight.

It's been a long time since I've had a snake. I had a Ball from 7th to 10th grade and always fed her in her enclosure. Could be why she was so bitey all the time.

 

[LPacker79]

Not to mention i'm not sure my mom would tolerate froze rats in her freezer.

I used to keep frozen mice in the freezer. One day I was in my room and I heard my mom shriek from the kitchen. She had unwrapped some of my frozen mice thinking it was hamburger. She was NOT happy with me at all. From then on I made sure to label them.

 

[Phillip]

Personally I give everyone close to if not right at 24 hours simply due to how I feed. It helps with regurging and such as it gives everyone time to settle down before being handled. It also helps a great deal when you have kings or milks housed together to wait this long.

Phil

 

[da_illest]

Originally posted by Phillip
The pros of feeding in a different container are less chance of ingested substrate and usually a less prone to bite snake. They can become programmed to bite if the only time a hand comes into their home it means food. Also the smell of prey in the enclosure combined with your warmth and movement can set them off. Granted some snakes don't bite either way and some do but it lessens the chance when they are fed in a container other than their home.

The only negative to it is having to pick them up and put them in another container as well as having to put them back when they are done feeding.

Phil

don't you have to wait 2 days after they eat to pick them up or they will regurgitate?

 

[Phillip]

Not unless you still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.

Not to come across as smart a** but this is a pretty much bogus theory that I have seen written many times. Usually however I see it written as one day not two. I have picked snakes up right after feeding as well as having them eat while holding them. I can count the regurges I have seen over the years on one hand. What it comes down to is not upsetting the snake and that is all in how you handle not how soon. Bottom line is if you have to pick one up soon after eating be gentle and don't restrain them or move quickly when doing so.

My reasoning behind the 24 hour window is that I feed many snakes at a time and simply don't want to sit up half the night waiting for each one to finish. Most slam them down right away but some can take a while. The time frame I give them allows everyone ample time to eat if hungry and I almost never have one refuse food this way including finicky eaters. The problem most folks encounter is not leaving the snake alone to eat or not giving it time to settle in before expecting it to eat. Even nervous species will eat well if left alone long enough to become comfy and given ample time when food is presented.

The biggest snake newbie mistake is bringing one home and handling it 24/7 then wondering why it won't feed. Or to translate it to the most common question... Why won't my new ball eat?

Phil

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by Phillip
Not unless you still believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.
Not to come across as smart a** but this is a pretty much bogus theory that I have seen written many times.
Phil

Agreed on that Phil. I sometimes separate my atrox while feeding and never had they regurgitated the food after they been messed with straight after the feeding. I think it can happen offcourse, maybe if you mess with the snake in a big way and it has eaten something very large (gets immobile and therefor vulnerble).

/Lelle

 

[Valael]

I think if you stress a snake enough over the course of a day or week, you can get them to regurg even later than two days, heh.



Actually, I've seen a snake, with my own eyes, regurg after (someone claiming) a week. I'm not totally sure how long it had actually been because one person said two weeks, another said a week. But when he regurgitated the rat, it was almost entirely digested. It was nothing more than a big glob of muscle. And feet. The feet were perfectly intact.

The only thing I can say with certain is that it was easily over two days.


As for feeding live or dead, it just depends on the snake/lizard. If they're small enough that they eat pinkies or fuzzies, I always feed live just because freezing and thawing is such a pain in the ass, since I can leave my pinkies/fuzzies with the parent rats and they last just as long and even grow a little in the process.

I've never really gotten into the whole freezing thing, due to price ($10 for 6 pinkies?! and I don't quite have enough money to dish out on a large bulk order) so I usually buy live rats/mice and give them a good thump on the head before feeding them off. I'm considering building a CO2 tank to kill them off, though. Rats just don't die easily enough, heh. I try to hit them hard enough so they don't start to bleed, but whenever I do that, it seems like those dead rats bounce back a couple minutes later, forcing me to go running after them.

 

[Phillip]

$10 for 6 pinkies?!

Sounds like someone has been pricing the T Rex mice on ice.
Those are one of the biggest ripoffs in the pet world. When buying in bulk you can get frozen pinks for somewhere in the 25 to 35 cent range depending on the supplier and the volume bought.

Phil

 

[Valael]

For some reason, if you buy pinkies in bulk from Petco (Which I really don't like buying food from anyways, but they get their feeders from a seperate company.) they charge more. But individual pinkies are cheaper (But still expensive at something like $1.25)


The cheapest I can get fuzzies/rat pups for is about a buck a piece.

Which is exactly why I've started breeding rats.