Live or Dead?

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by DavidBeard
Ummm, No. This was an ADULT Corn (4-5 feet) and in perfect health. And the person who started this thread stated that he "enjoyed" watching his snake kill the mouse for entertainment value....thatsw what I meant by "cool factor."

I also have had many WC snakes switch over to f/t......sometimes it takes effort and time but I've never failed in getting a snake to eat dead prey.

But once in a while theres nothing wrong in feeding live, if you know what you are doing that is. If you like and are fascinated by snakes, you get fascinated in how they capture and kill their prey. Atleast I am, and it got nothing to do with any bs cool factor.
The risks are, as i stated before, small snake with large mouse in a tight enclosure. Unsupervised. Then you can get trouble.

/Lelle

 

[Richard_uk]

Grael,
I don't know where you are getting your frozen mice from but I would search out another supplier! £1.25 for a frozen mouse is VERY expensive. Mine are 50p each or 10 for £4.

One aspect is being seriously overlooked in all of this. In the UK, it is considered illegal to feed your animals live prey. It actually isn't illegal but you have to prove beyond any doubt that the animal in question will not take previously killed prey. Assuming this can be proved, the feeder animals have to be kept in adequat conditions to keep them happy, right up until they get eaten, they must be provided with sufficient food, warmth and shelter. If you fail to do any of this the authorities will come down on you hard and fast and have you charged with animal cruelty.
At its minimum, you can can be banned from keeping animals from a few months to the rest of your life, at its worst you can get sent to prison.

As had already been previously said, a snake will take dead food once it becomes hungry enough. I now only feed my snakes when they become active, prowling around the tank at night. Now as soon as I reach in with the dead mouse (on forceps!) it is snached up in a matter of seconds. The only problem I have got is that my corn snake is as thick as two short planks. If it takes a mouse ass first it will not eat it and doesn't know how to turn it round!

 

[Beardo]

Originally posted by Crotalus
But once in a while theres nothing wrong in feeding live, if you know what you are doing that is. If you like and are fascinated by snakes, you get fascinated in how they capture and kill their prey. Atleast I am, and it got nothing to do with any bs cool factor.
The risks are, as i stated before, small snake with large mouse in a tight enclosure. Unsupervised. Then you can get trouble.

/Lelle

Sounds to me like you need to stick to watching snakes on Animal Planet and leave the snake-keeping to those of us who care more about the well-being of our animals.

 

[da_illest]

hey david, honestly you need to seriously calm down... i LOVE watching snakes feed on live prey.. and honestly there is absolutly nothing wrong with that.. it's not sick at all, it's mother nature.. in the wild snakes eat live prey all the time.. anyways..

i have an 8 inch kenyan sand boa which is in a 10 gallon tank... i feed my snake in the tank because i tried in another little deli cup thing and it won't eat.. so his tank has 3-4 inches of aspen wood shavings which he burrows into all the time.. up until now i've had it on live pinkies but for the past 2-3 weeks i haven't been able to get any so i tried using F/T and it won't take it.. i can't dangle it cause my snake is under wood at all times and comes out to feed at night when i'm not around.. how do i switch to frozen/thawed? my snakes been all active looking for food for 2-3 yet still won't take F/T.. i can't find live pinkies at the moment and i seem to have some trouble finding them.. any help apprectiated

thanx

ps. will it die if it doesn't eat soon? it's been 2 to 3 weeks since his last meal..

 

[Crotalus]

Originally posted by DavidBeard
Sounds to me like you need to stick to watching snakes on Animal Planet and leave the snake-keeping to those of us who care more about the well-being of our animals.

If you read again you might understand what im saying but I doubt it. Stick to animals that dont eat other animals will you.

/Lelle

 

[Phillip]

While I am far from a fan of it and certainly don't advocate it feeding live while supervised can be done with no problem. I personally choose not to as I feed a lot of snakes at a time and can't sit down and watch each one until it is done. There is also a higher parasitic risk with live but if the mice are kept clean and raised properly the risk isn't that large. The cost factor is another reason I don't like live food and when you feed 50 or more mice at a time cost can be a factor.

The size at which live mice can become a risk of damaging the snake is when they are around half grown. Pinkies and young fuzzies don't have developed teeth yet and can't bite the snake. On occasion you may also come across a snake that simply will not eat frozen such as my EDB. I would prefer to feed him F/T but he has no interest in them so he gets live rats.

As to Lelle caring about the well being of his snakes and knowing what he is talking about..... You need to try and understand who you are argueing with before trying to come across as if you have a clue David. I would wager that Lelle is up to speed with if not beyond the scope of your herp keeping knowledge.

Phil

 

[Beardo]

LOL...ok, you all may do as you wish. I should've known better than to argue REPTILE husbandry on an INVERT forum.

 

[Phillip]

Indeed Much better to argue it on a herp forum filled with misinformed folks.

If you take the time to read the board titles this particular section deals with animals that aren't inverts. You also have to understand that many of the folks who keep inverts have kept herps for longer than they have inverts.

Phil

 

[Beardo]

Sure, Phil.

 

[Immortal_sin]

Originally posted by DavidBeard
LOL...ok, you all may do as you wish. I should've known better than to argue REPTILE husbandry on an INVERT forum.

wow...that's just plain insulting, IMHO....

 

[Beardo]

Well.....if I wanted to get my car fixed, I wouldn't go to a Restaurant now would I?

 

[Immortal_sin]

ok...apparently you didn't get the point. When I got my first snake, I came to this forum, as there are members here with ALOT of herp experience, as Phillip mentioned. They were people I was already familiar with, and were quite capable of answering my questions. Just because this is an invert forum primarily, doesn't mean that everyone here is a complete and utter *maroon* about herps....but you already knew that, are just trying to be argumentative...
You obviously feel strongly about feeding thawed, as do MOST of us, however, your attitude leaves little wiggle room for tolerance...

 

[Phillip]

By the same means if someone wanted good herp keeping advice they wouldn't ask an individual that has delusions of wisdom simply due to starting a forum. Anyone willing to pay the monthly fee can start a forum. This means absolutely nothing about that person having valid experience to offer.

The statement was insulting and seems to stem from personal issues on Davids part. When he couldn't get folks on other herp forums to agree with him he decided to make his own. This seems to have instilled a false sense of wisdom in the young lad.

Phil

 

[pategirl]

I also find that statement insulting. I learned a lot of what i know from people that are here regularly, and just because people are on a forum dedicated to inverts, doesn't mean they know nothing about reptiles. It's very much the contrary. Lelle and Phil, who is a trusted friend, have both given me great advice about reptile related things in the past, and I trust that both know what they're talking about when it comes to this stuff. The only snake I ever feed live too is my silver queen corn, because he simply won't take dead prey. I've tried every trick in the book, but he eats live mice and lizards. No amount of scenting or braining or whatever works, chicken broth has no impact. Would you rather me just let my snake starve rather than feed it a live mouse? One isn't sick for saying they get a thrill out of watching a snake kill prey, it's an interesting process. I'm not saying that feeding live for a thirll is right, it's not, but a live mouse once in a while can't be that bad of a thing when supervised. You shouldn't judge a person's worthiness to keep snakes by the prey they feed.

 

[Critterfarm]

Originally posted by Phillip

When he couldn't get folks on other herp forums to agree with him he decided to make his own. This seems to have instilled a false sense of wisdom in the young lad.

Phil

lol...I was waiting for that. The internet is, in some ways, a small place isn't it David?

 

[Beardo]

LMAO......How do you know my reasons behind starting my own forum? I suppose you're a mind reader now as well?

I honestly don't care if I offended anyone. If I did, I wouldn't have said what I said. You don't like my opinion? Too bad. Deal with it. Get over it.

 

[MrT]

Originally posted by pategirl
I also find that statement insulting.

So much so, I hit the IGNORE button..

 

[da_illest]

thanks to people here i've saved 2 t's from dying and learned how to give proper care to my cham and snake.. this is IMO the best forum ever due to it's knowledgable people who know about everything from ants to venemous snakes. even giraffe's and rhino's! not to mention the layout, color, ease of use...

that said, anyone interested in sharing some of this knowledge with me? read below.. any suggestions appreciated

Originally posted by da_illest
hey david, honestly you need to seriously calm down... i LOVE watching snakes feed on live prey.. and honestly there is absolutly nothing wrong with that.. it's not sick at all, it's mother nature.. in the wild snakes eat live prey all the time.. anyways..

i have an 8 inch kenyan sand boa which is in a 10 gallon tank... i feed my snake in the tank because i tried in another little deli cup thing and it won't eat.. so his tank has 3-4 inches of aspen wood shavings which he burrows into all the time.. up until now i've had it on live pinkies but for the past 2-3 weeks i haven't been able to get any so i tried using F/T and it won't take it.. i can't dangle it cause my snake is under wood at all times and comes out to feed at night when i'm not around.. how do i switch to frozen/thawed? my snakes been all active looking for food for 2-3 yet still won't take F/T.. i can't find live pinkies at the moment and i seem to have some trouble finding them.. any help apprectiated

thanx

ps. will it die if it doesn't eat soon? it's been 2 to 3 weeks since his last meal..

 

[Ravnos]

In my experience, the people adamant about feeding live prey don't usually come around until their snake gets bit. Personally, I have better things to do than argue about it. The facts are out there - take them as you will. I have rehabbed more than my share of snakes torn apart by their food because of various situations: single defensive bites, bites occuring during wrapping, long term cohabitation with a rat, supervised, unsupervised, low temps, bites from fuzzies all the way to jumbo rats, you name it. I just can't justify it to myself to feed live, but maybe someone else can.

It is true though, there are a great number of people on this forum with extensive herp knowledge and experience. Just because it is an invert forum doesn't mean you can't get good (and bad) advice about anything. Myself, I prefer to stick to asking questions about inverts because that is the focus of the group, but it doesn't limit my participation.

Rav

 

[Joe]

Originally posted by da_illest
i can't find live pinkies at the moment and i seem to have some trouble finding them.. any help apprectiated

thanx

ps. will it die if it doesn't eat soon? it's been 2 to 3 weeks since his last meal..

If you're keeping more than a few animals that need to eat pinkies, you'd probably be better off breeding your own mice. As for your snake not having eaten in 2-3 weeks, I wouldn't be worried about it. I've had some snakes that wouldn't eat for months. Unless they appear noticably thinner, it's nothing to worry about, usually.

Joe