Importing Tarantula(s)?

[LV-426]

My opinion is just buy a specimen from a dealer or breeder. Just go to look and admire, don't rape the wilderness anymore than us humans already have.

 

[Jared781]

I am going on a trip to Puerto Rico and I will be visiting some rain forests. My intention is only to obtain some experience with field work and a little vacation, but if I can I would like to try to bring in a few specimens. Is this allowed? How can I do this legally <edit>? Please be relevant and stay on topic with your answers, I don't need any remarks. Thank you in advance. The species I would be interested in are Avicularia. Specifically an Avicularia Laeta.

i like how he said: "i dont need any remarks"

as the same people are doing on every forum???

he said IMPORT, not smuggling

why would he say: "i want to bring some specimens back, is this allowed" ????

if he was talking about smuggling, he wouldn't ask if it was allowed!??

understand the topic before you post


and im not calling anyone out, im pointing out what he actually meant

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 12:11 PM ----------

@Jared781,

None of that made any sense....

So you would collect one single specimen? But if it goes the way you plan, you'll have 5 Ts after your trip? And you say it's not worth doing the paperwork and smuggling is a huge offense... Then what are you talking about doing? Sure sounds like smuggling to me.

Isn't renting condos better than staying in a hotel?

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 12:14 PM ----------

I think the issue is that the Mexican Government will never give you a permit for tarantulas in any time that could be considered "soon" if ever. Many scientists with long lists of credentials from prestigious institutions have difficulty in this regard and for organisms that are not even CITES.

Our government is much more amenable, you just have to fill out some paperwork, wait half the year (sometimes less) and pay per species (surprisingly little for non-CITES, last time I checked it was only about $50.00-80.00 US for the first species and $10.00 for each on after that up to a certain limit) and typically it requires some type of justification and a protocol regarding how you intend to detain them, dispose of them, etc. They need to be sure you are not bringing in some unwanted pests along with the target species, and that's assuming the target species isn't considered a pest itself (which all herbivore are here in Florida anyway). Often you have to submit a specimen to a state agency. I don't know exactly how it works for tarantulas specifically but that's the story for butterflies and moths. It's trickier getting anything CITES but it is absolutely possible, the fee is just accordingly higher I believe and with extra paperwork and better justification. People do it for Ornithoptera and some of the rare Morphos on a regular basis. Usually for re-sale as specimens in fact so I'm sure that "economic hardship" clause that gives business a pass to exploit the environment even when we know better is somehow involved. I've never dealt with anything CITES so I couldn't comment beyond that, but the folks over at insectnet.com have loads of experience and protocols available for how it's done with insects.

You will have to check federal and state laws as many states require there own sets of permits for live organisms in addition to the federal level. With that in mind, you still have to have the permit from the country of origin for legal export. If you do not, regardless of how perfect your permits are on this end, they are still illegal and you will be prosecuted, with heavy fines and likely jail time. It's really foolish to try illegally and moreover disrespectful on multiple levels to the community, to the animals and to the laws.

There are lots of state and government agencies you can call to find out about it but I will tell you from experience with other animals that it is ridiculously difficult to find any helpful information or a single informed employee at most of the agencies you will be calling.

I'm in-line with everyone else here in this regard- don't bother, it's a waste of time and money bringing something you can already buy and just adds insult to injury to the wild populations. You aren't bringing in something new or for the benefit of the animal or knowledge, I suspect that will be the justification for denying your permit anyway as they will say what we are saying- if all you want is 5 avicularia for pets, go buy some.

Iv already been talking to guides and mayors

 

[Grin]

Better idea?

Just take some pictures & record them in their natural habitat...
Priceless and no hassle.

 

[Jared781]

Better idea?

Just take some pictures & record them in their natural habitat...
Priceless and no hassle.

i guess.....

but every T hobbyist wants to do something like that!

Here we go:

but if i only find ONE there is not point of going through all that trouble importing it! there is probably tons of papers to sign ( if I only found one I`ll leave it in as its not worth the paperwork)

BUT if it goes the way i hope by the end of the trip i should have 5 Ts in my Condo :/... ( I`m looking for 5, if I find 5 I`ll attempt to fill out the papaerwork)

YESS,
.
but Im not specifically looking for 5, its just something that would be very cool. (Because i think every T hobbyist should catch a few wild specimens themselves..)

and yes if i only find 1 i wont try importing it, ill just keep it at my Condo (for a temporary pet) then release it before i leave

 

[Arachnopets]

Admin Note

<snip>
he said IMPORT, not smuggling

why would he say: "i want to bring some specimens back, is this allowed" ????

if he was talking about smuggling, he wouldn't ask if it was allowed!??

understand the topic before you post


and im not calling anyone out, im pointing out what he actually meant

I think YOU need to understand the topic before you post. "Importing" without the proper paperwork (ie: permits, etc.) IS smuggling. Just because you say the word "importing" does not automatically make things legal. :wall: Call it what you want, but no matter how you look at it or try to redefine it, in the end it's smuggling, plain and simple. The "illegal" part to the OP's question has been removed by me, as it is against our rules.

Seriously, everyone who wishes to reply in here either needs to help the OP gain information on how to LEGALLY go about this or don't post in here at all.


Debby

 

[Jared781]

I think YOU need to understand the topic before you post. "Importing" without the proper paperwork (ie: permits, etc.) IS smuggling. Just because you say the word "importing" does not automatically make things legal. :wall: Call it what you want, but no matter how you look at it or try to redefine it, in the end it's smuggling, plain and simple. The "illegal" part to the OP's question has been removed by me, as it is against our rules.

Seriously, everyone who wishes to reply in here either needs to help the OP gain information on how to LEGALLY go about this or don't post in here at all.


Debby

I never said anything about signing improper/pseudo paper work??

all i stated was that i will go through all the trouble signing legal documents if

i were to be succesful towards finding specimens... but i would not bring back just 1
(i would leave it there, as it wouldnt be worth it)

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 12:45 PM ----------



and when i say "my condo" its the one i will rent in Mexico,

i didnt mean back to where i live now.. especially because i dont even live

in a condo :/

 

[Arachnopets]

I never said anything about signing improper/pseudo paper work??

all i stated was that i will go through all the trouble signing legal documents if

i were to be succesful towards finding specimens... but i would not bring back just 1
(i would leave it there, as it wouldnt be worth it)

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 12:45 PM ----------



and when i say "my condo" its the one i will rent in Mexico,

i didnt mean back to where i live now.. especially because i dont even live

in a condo :/

Last I checked, you are not the OP. So quit acting like you are by addressing people that are referring back to the OP. I was not saying you were going to do anything illegal. I was addressing the general nature of how the word "import" was being loosely used and defined. You were speaking on behalf of the OP and it is not your place to. So unless you are actually the OP on a second account (which you know is against our rules), then just STOP! :wall:

Also, the fact that you replied back to my post that is CLEARLY titled "Admin Note", means you failed to read this.

I'd tone it back some, if I were you. You're running out of rope ....

Debby

 

[metallica]

Here we go:

but if i only find ONE there is not point of going through all that trouble importing it! there is probably tons of papers to sign ( if I only found one I`ll leave it in as its not worth the paperwork)

BUT if it goes the way i hope by the end of the trip i should have 5 Ts in my Condo :/... ( I`m looking for 5, if I find 5 I`ll attempt to fill out the papaerwork)

I would look into collecting permits before you collect. It would be a shame if you were arrested for illegal hunting!!

 

[Jared781]

it was me who got called out

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 03:16 PM ----------

Last I checked, you are not the OP. So quit acting like you are by addressing people that are referring back to the OP. I was not saying you were going to do anything illegal. I was addressing the general nature of how the word "import" was being loosely used and defined. You were speaking on behalf of the OP and it is not your place to. So unless you are actually the OP on a second account (which you know is against our rules), then just STOP! :wall:

Also, the fact that you replied back to my post that is CLEARLY titled "Admin Note", means you failed to read this.

I'd tone it back some, if I were you. You're running out of rope ....

Debby

You said you werent accusing me but at the same time stating improper paperwork is illegal IE smuggling (which you thought the OP said) but i was the person who mentioned the paperwork in the first place and explained if i only find one i wont bother importing animals (as it would be a waste of time/ filling out the documents for one specimen.. doesnt mean im going to smuggle it in my bag, so yeah you were accusing me

you just got mistaken, and thought the OP said that and i was talking for him... BUT unless he said something about paperwork before you edited it out because i did not see that part

 

[catfishrod69]

Sorry to sound rude, but you should listen to Debby, and drop it. She can make Jared781 look like this----> <edit>

it was me who got called out

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 06:17 PM ----------

exactly....Take only pictures, leave only footprints.

Better idea?

Just take some pictures & record them in their natural habitat...
Priceless and no hassle.

 

[Jared781]

Debby made a mistake is all

 

[catfishrod69]

That's not for me to decide, but read the last 3 sentences in her last post.

Debby made a mistake is all

 

[GregorSamsa]

Debby made a mistake is all

Dude. Stop.

You've already dug a grave doing this to other members, but now you're just climbing right in.

 

[Arachnopets]

Debby made a mistake is all

I didn't make a mistake. You just fail to comprehend.

Debby

 

[Frost]

LOL!



Then why were you asking how to illegally import tarantulas? :?

What are you laughing out loud about? Secondarily, I'm not asking how to bring in something illegally, I'm asking what's legal and what isn't. Have you read the previous posts yet? I've clarified this.

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 09:29 PM ----------

That last bit about staying on topic and not needing remarks would make no sense if he was only asking how to do it legally.

I asked for there not to be any negative remarks because there are people <edit> who always have something negative to say because they are "knowledgeable" & have all this "seniority" to the hobby when truthfully, they are a waste of space on a post and are annoying.

---------- Post added 02-08-2012 at 09:38 PM ----------

Better idea?

Just take some pictures & record them in their natural habitat...
Priceless and no hassle.

Girl, you're a genius. I never even thought of that. We need women in our world I swear. Thank you so much Grin.

 

[Jared781]

im giving up

<edit>

OK now im done!
Debby, i apologize

 

[Tarac]

Iv already been talking to guides and mayors

Those are entirely the incorrect people to talk to. And when you say "if I were successful" then at that point you are already talking about too late to get permits. IF you were really thinking of doing this and not smuggling as you keep suggesting then you would have to have this all planned out LONG before even bought your plane ticket. Permits are very very slow to come by. It took 1.5 years to get a permit from Jamaica, 8 months from the Dominican republic, failed to happen ever from Mexico, 1 year for Columbia and this all with a .gov credentials and for dead, dried, preserved material from nothing rare or noteworthy or protected, and that was just for moving the specimens... collecting them required a whole other set of permits.

You don't go somewhere, find something and say "hey, I should have this, where's that form again?" You have to know what you are after already, you have to include that information in the permits- that's what they are, permission to collect X species, not a free pass on all things you might fancy when you get there- which you must get before you even leave the country (and that means BOTH country of origin and destination). And so you know, doing paperwork for five tarantulas is equally as pointless as doing it for five. If you are doing paper work, you need to be thinking 100. Permits aren't just handed out willy-nilly, there's a reason why they exist and while the laws are sometimes arcane and are not necessarily functioning the way they were framed the point is that they are there to protect the environment, industry, and wildlife and with those three things in mind it makes a few souvenir pets seem very petty and unimportant in the grand scheme, which is why you will likely never get a permit anyway. It's obvious you don't understand the system which absolutely precludes you from ever getting permits for anything period, let alone something like a Mexican species of tarantula which are already hot-button organisms.

I can just imagine you walking up to customs with your box of tarantulas saying "hey I got lucky and found FIVE, not just one, and I want to make them my pets. Where's the line where I sign for the permits before I hop on the plane?"

 

[Comatose]

FWIW, I traveled to Trinidad with the intention of legally importing Scolopendra gigantea. The leg work on both sides was unbelievable - another member on this board managed to legally export spiders from T&T to Canada, and although I believe the import laws there are easier to deal with, he deserves big ups for successfully navigating the Trini legal system. The rules in these countries tend to be vague at best and change at the whim of local authorities. I had to meet with their version of F&W before I could even start collecting, and then would have to return with what I picked up, get a vet note (in Trinidad) and then get an export permit. That doesn't even graze the issue of the legwork that would be necessary on our end. Of course, I didn't have to bother with any of that, because of another variable I didn't even consider -

After flying to South America (two tickets - me and a buddy that was helping out) I couldn't find a single damn S. gigantea. Not a one. There were centipedes alright, but not the ones I was looking for. After 10 days and thousands of dollars, what I had was a nice vacation, nothing more.

Someone said take pictures, leave footprints. I can't advise that enough. Even if you go through all the legal legwork* you might still leave empty handed. My .02.

*Those still thinking about smuggling, go watch an episode of locked up abroad. Anyone that's spent a night in the slammer will remember that as being the Hilton compared to a prison in a developing country.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Jared, so you have a condo in Mexico? Or are you renting one on your trip? Even if you owned one, caught some Ts, and put them in there, what happens to them after your trip is over?

 

[Jared781]

Jared, so you have a condo in Mexico? Or are you renting one on your trip? Even if you owned one, caught some Ts, and put them in there, what happens to them after your trip is over?

i dont have one there
im renting one for a month..
Therefore if i find one which is of highly doubt i will look into importing it back, its not like if i find one no matter what im bringing it back because
if stuff were that easy there would be endless problems.. i will just keep it at the Condo for a temp pet and then release it

and again, i doubt ill find one because i have never herd of Beach Tarantulas!

its just something i hope to do, (not importing tarantulas) BUT looking for specimens in their natural habitat

since the permit is hard to come by quickly, ill try getting one for next year but for the meantime ill just take pictures...... and why not handle them a bit :S