I really am beginning to hate America...

[poisoned]

If you dont America because you can't keep bobcats and Burmese pythons then go to some other country like Cuba or the good ol USSR

USSR has fallen apart more than 20 years ago.

 

[pnshmntMMA]

So the country is collapsing BECAUSE people won't let you have any animal you want? Open your drapes people. See that? It's sunlight..go out side. The country is in bad shape and isn't getting much better. Especially with this administration that is fond of banning things and removing rights. I am all for people having whatever pet they want. You want a venomous liger? Go for it. This is such a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. Big to us animal lovers, but not a major reason for the US troubles. Ill cite such examples as NDAA2012, Obamacare, and our failing economy as examples our country is headed in the wrong direction. Our founding fathers would be very upset. I agree we are losing freedoms right and left. Banning animals is like banning guns. It takes bad people to make them bad things. Look at pit bulls, I've STILL never met a bad one. It's demonization that governments use to push their will. With guns, they point to homicides. They don't mention the over 1 million uses of firearms in LAWFUL SELF DEFENSE over the last 5 years. Again, look at pit bulls...they are made into creatures from the very pits of hell. In my experience they are some of the sweetest most loyal dogs around. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you guys but I wouldn't say it's a major factor in our nations decline.

 

[LV-426]

USSR has fallen apart more than 20 years ago.

I know that, I was being sacastic.

 

[Helga]

Well to just put one thing out there.. Right to own guns law in america is just stupid.
People think they have them for safety but the more people that have them the more killing. Accitents also when kids are finding them in the house and play with them. People that are mentally ill can easilly get there hands on them. And selling armor piercing bullets to the public is just sick... If you snapp becouse of somebody its easier to pull a trigger than if your clear minded, and having a gun in close range can put a hole in somebodys head, how is anybody going to defend themselfs from that? Really thinking you are safer becouse you can own a gun is just stupid, becouse when you can have them the 'bad guys' can too. What i think is worse in america is that the right to free speach is always getting less. On tv and radio, anywhere.
But anyways.. Reptiles should be legal i think but just kept an eye open that people are taking care of them and maybe not leting a big boa or something go freely in the house when a 2 year old kid is there, hehe. Like they do with other animals.

-Helga

 

[poisoned]

Well to just put one thing out there.. Right to own guns law in america is just stupid.
People think they have them for safety but the more people that have them the more killing. Accitents also when kids are finding them in the house and play with them. People that are mentally ill can easilly get there hands on them. And selling armor piercing bullets to the public is just sick... If you snapp becouse of somebody its easier to pull a trigger than if your clear minded, and having a gun in close range can put a hole in somebodys head, how is anybody going to defend themselfs from that? Really thinking you are safer becouse you can own a gun is just stupid, becouse when you can have them the 'bad guys' can too. What i think is worse in america is that the right to free speach is always getting less. On tv and radio, anywhere.
But anyways.. Reptiles should be legal i think but just kept an eye open that people are taking care of them and maybe not leting a big boa or something go freely in the house when a 2 year old kid is there, hehe. Like they do with other animals.

-Helga

Haha, you won't convince anyone here. I'm on your boat (European), but convincing people that guns are dangerous and their health care is f'd up seems impossible
If you want some fun, go watch Fox news. Freedom of speech dictated by megacompanies.

 

[Helga]

Haha, you won't convince anyone here. I'm on your boat (European), but convincing people that guns are dangerous and their health care is f'd up seems impossible
If you want some fun, go watch Fox news. Freedom of speech dictated by megacompanies.

Sad... So sad. Only thing they care about is themselfs and scared of anyone they dont know. And when when they really would need the healthcare system like when a realitive or themself get really sick for a long time, they are <edit>. Paying alot just becouse they are to selfish to pay abit more taxes so everybody can go to the doctor.

Sorry americans :/ dont mean to be rude..

-Helga

 

[Anonymity82]

Who's "they"? Me? All Americans? We're all so selfish? How much money do the people in Slovenia raise for starving Africans? Norway?

Please don't watch Fox news. Most of us here don't believe a word they say anyhow.

Being that Norway only has like 6 million people in it and Slovenia has a little over 2 million you're going to have far fewer idiots. I'll give you that. But you have to remember that there's more people living in New York State (19 million)than in either of your countries combined. Our country was founded on freedoms for all so it's kind of difficult gaining control while not taking those freedoms away. I agree there should be some seriously stricter gun laws but I don't agree that they should be outlawed all together. People don't need military weapons. I'll give you guys that.

As for Norway? What do you plan to do when Anders Behring Breivik gets out in 24 years? He bombs a government building and then kills 77 people while dressed as an officer of the law. He mindlessly murders 10s of children while they run to him for help thinking he's a cop while they're at camp on an unprotected private island with no where to run or hide. Would have been nice if somebody else had a gun too right? Maybe they could have stopped him sooner. What does he face? 24 years in jail? Really? Yeah... you guys have your stuff together. At least James Holmes who shot 70 people and killed 12 will spend the rest of his life in jail, whether it's 10 years on death row or 60 in a long term prison, he'll never get out to do this again.

Sorry if I sound rude but I was deeply offended by both of your assumptions that all Americans follow the views of Fox news...

---------- Post added 08-02-2012 at 04:01 PM ----------

I'm not saying that I agree with the politics of America. Please don't group all Americans as hate mongering, gun toting fascist. I wont say that all Norwegians are weak like their laws and that all Slovenians are actually Yugoslavic communists.


Again, sorry if this sounds very harsh and rude but I'm only responding to the very offensive statements previously stated.

 

[poisoned]

Who's "they"? Me? All Americans? We're all so selfish? How much money do the people in Slovenia raise for starving Africans? Norway?

Please don't watch Fox news. Most of us here don't believe a word they say anyhow.

Being that Norway only has like 6 million people in it and Slovenia has a little over 2 million you're going to have far fewer idiots. I'll give you that. But you have to remember that there's more people living in New York State (19 million)than in either of your countries combined. Our country was founded on freedoms for all so it's kind of difficult gaining control while not taking those freedoms away. I agree there should be some seriously stricter gun laws but I don't agree that they should be outlawed all together. People don't need military weapons. I'll give you guys that.

As for Norway? What do you plan to do when Anders Behring Breivik gets out in 24 years? He bombs a government building and then kills 77 people while dressed as an officer of the law. He mindlessly murders 10s of children while they run to him for help thinking he's a cop while they're at camp on an unprotected private island with no where to run or hide. Would have been nice if somebody else had a gun too right? Maybe they could have stopped him sooner. What does he face? 24 years in jail? Really? Yeah... you guys have your stuff together. At least James Holmes who shot 70 people and killed 12 will spend the rest of his life in jail, whether it's 10 years on death row or 60 in a long term prison, he'll never get out to do this again.

Sorry if I sound rude but I was deeply offended by both of your assumptions that all Americans follow the views of Fox news...

---------- Post added 08-02-2012 at 04:01 PM ----------

I'm not saying that I agree with the politics of America. Please don't group all Americans as hate mongering, gun toting fascist. I wont say that all Norwegians are weak like their laws and that all Slovenians are actually Yugoslavic communists.


Again, sorry if this sounds very harsh and rude but I'm only responding to the very offensive statements previously stated.

No one accused all Americans, that would be ignorant. I was targeting republicans.
And Yugoslavia never experienced communism, it was socialistic country and for most people, living was much easier than now.

 

[Anonymity82]

"Haha, you won't convince anyone here" sounds like a pretty general statement declaring that we all feel the same. "I'm on your boat (European)" and what exactly does this insinuate?

I happen to know plenty of republicans who don't side with everything our republican elects do.

And that sucks that your country isn't doing very well. Honestly. I'm a "whatever works" kind of person. If one worked better than the other way than who am I to say it's wrong? I will however, not boast opinions about a country's citizens no matter what party they belong to unless I myself have lived there long enough to form a viable opinion about what is actually wrong.

---------- Post added 08-02-2012 at 06:12 PM ----------

I must also reiterate that Fox news is mostly seen as a joke. I'm sad to say that I'm sure there are millions of people who watch their propaganda and see it was truth but most of us, at least my generation and the younger ones, see it as no more than a fear mongering (yes, I love this word) advertisement for consumption.

 

[zonbonzovi]

Mod's note

I seem to be lost. Can someone please direct me to Arachnoboards' Not So Spineless Wonders subforum. Some godawful, random page about politics seems to have taken its place.:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

Folks, this detour belongs in The Watering Hole. Either discuss something/anything to do with the subforum's sole purpose or don't respond. It really is that easy. Thanks!

 

[pnshmntMMA]

Sucks you guys drank the kool aid.

 

[Helga]

Sorry.
Not the time or place to be fighting about politics. Just gets to me sometimes.
I apologise.:bruised:

-Helga

 

[lizardminion]

Our country already IS collapsing, and it's NOT because of people wanting to keep reptiles, but because of the ones who DON'T want us to keep reptiles...or anything else. The AR movement and the morass of laws and regulations against practically everything we do is a symptom of a much, much bigger problem. The OP was angry and upset, justifiably, with the way things are going here in this country(USA) regarding animal ownership in general and reptiles in particular, because the AR movement is really focusing so much of their negative attention to reptiles at the time, since it's easier to ban things that aren't so widely accepted by the general public. If they can magnify any controversy or doubts, they can eliminate that whole group of animals from private ownership, putting them one step closer to their ultimate goal of absolutely no animal use/ownership by humans, for any reason, bar none. The OP was mistaken in thinking that this was just a uniquely American problem, something that was only happening here, so it was pointed out to him that it is NOT a problem unique to the USA, but it's a global issue that is even worse in some other countries. We have every reason to be angry about it, but until ALL ANIMAL KEEPERS unite as one front, we aren't going to get anywhere, and as long as you have so many animal owners who are perfectly willing to allow laws to be put into place that ban or restrict someone ELSE'S animals, because they don't like/are scared of those animals themselves, and as long as you have people who put on rose-colored glasses and believe that the laws will never be extended to include the animals THEY keep, we will continue to lose ground. I can understand the OP's frustration, even if that statement itself was misguided, but seriously, we are in deep trouble.

pitbulllady

This post in particular.
It's also worth noting how the regulations on every other aspect on our lives make me mad.

 

[ZergFront]

This really does peeve me. Are there any organizations here in the U.S. that promote proper care of all species, both domestic and exotic, rather than being 100% anti-exotic pet? (I don't mean reptile organizations like USARK, bot organizations for all animals, like the RSPCA of the UK)

You can give your support to REXANO. They support exotic pet ownership of a WIDE range of animals. The only thing I can think of is to keep up with bills, ordinances and the like that are going to be heard and give support to a petition and spread it on to others you know will take a stand.

---------- Post added 08-02-2012 at 06:42 PM ----------

Also, Tarac just owned all the cat owners against exotics in one swoop. Hahaha!

 

[lizardminion]

Well to just put one thing out there.. Right to own guns law in america is just stupid.
People think they have them for safety but the more people that have them the more killing. Accitents also when kids are finding them in the house and play with them. People that are mentally ill can easilly get there hands on them. And selling armor piercing bullets to the public is just sick... If you snapp becouse of somebody its easier to pull a trigger than if your clear minded, and having a gun in close range can put a hole in somebodys head, how is anybody going to defend themselfs from that? Really thinking you are safer becouse you can own a gun is just stupid, becouse when you can have them the 'bad guys' can too. What i think is worse in america is that the right to free speach is always getting less. On tv and radio, anywhere.
But anyways.. Reptiles should be legal i think but just kept an eye open that people are taking care of them and maybe not leting a big boa or something go freely in the house when a 2 year old kid is there, hehe. Like they do with other animals.

-Helga

So, laws against guns will keep the violence down?
Now tell me this, when did criminals start following laws? Hell, marijuana is an illegal substance and we're always bickering about it, but people still smoke that crap all the time. If you think laws will make it hard to obtain guns, then let's just ponder about how the word 'smuggling' came to be. That's also why people still obtain illegal substances.
One time, some nut-head just like the Colorado movie murderer start shooting people in a Texas movie theatre. Only he killed 2 people instead, since two sane people in the theatre drew their guns and shot him dead.

 

[poisoned]

So, laws against guns will keep the violence down?
Now tell me this, when did criminals start following laws? Hell, marijuana is an illegal substance and we're always bickering about it, but people still smoke that crap all the time. If you think laws will make it hard to obtain guns, then let's just ponder about how the word 'smuggling' came to be. That's also why people still obtain illegal substances.
One time, some nut-head just like the Colorado movie murderer start shooting people in a Texas movie theatre. Only he killed 2 people instead, since two sane people in the theatre drew their guns and shot him dead.

Please explain why homicide rates are so much lower in Europe. And, do I have to tell you, there are many possibilities between weapons for everyone and totally outlawing them. There is a way to own a gun in most European countries and I think for your security you don't need bazooka, minigun and a rifle.

 

[Ravn]

Who's "they"? Me? All Americans? We're all so selfish? How much money do the people in Slovenia raise for starving Africans? Norway?

Please don't watch Fox news. Most of us here don't believe a word they say anyhow.

Being that Norway only has like 6 million people in it and Slovenia has a little over 2 million you're going to have far fewer idiots. I'll give you that. But you have to remember that there's more people living in New York State (19 million)than in either of your countries combined. Our country was founded on freedoms for all so it's kind of difficult gaining control while not taking those freedoms away. I agree there should be some seriously stricter gun laws but I don't agree that they should be outlawed all together. People don't need military weapons. I'll give you guys that.

As for Norway? What do you plan to do when Anders Behring Breivik gets out in 24 years? He bombs a government building and then kills 77 people while dressed as an officer of the law. He mindlessly murders 10s of children while they run to him for help thinking he's a cop while they're at camp on an unprotected private island with no where to run or hide. Would have been nice if somebody else had a gun too right? Maybe they could have stopped him sooner. What does he face? 24 years in jail? Really? Yeah... you guys have your stuff together. At least James Holmes who shot 70 people and killed 12 will spend the rest of his life in jail, whether it's 10 years on death row or 60 in a long term prison, he'll never get out to do this again.

Sorry if I sound rude but I was deeply offended by both of your assumptions that all Americans follow the views of Fox news...

---------- Post added 08-02-2012 at 04:01 PM ----------

I'm not saying that I agree with the politics of America. Please don't group all Americans as hate mongering, gun toting fascist. I wont say that all Norwegians are weak like their laws and that all Slovenians are actually Yugoslavic communists.


Again, sorry if this sounds very harsh and rude but I'm only responding to the very offensive statements previously stated.

well Norway is one of the richest countries in the world and raise a lot of money to starving kids all over. Do you even know anything about Norway other then what you have read in wikipedia?
Breivik is not coming out in 24 years ( the maximum prison time in norway is actually 21x 9 months), because he will not go to a prison but a mental hospital built just for him

and people talk about america as a whole based on their politics and not every individual off course. And based on what "America" chooses to do politically and acting as world police, you are bound to make the rest off the world raise some eyebrows

 

[Tarac]

It's not about whether or not regulations exist. Having a "free country" should come with a disclaimer because sometimes the "right to be free" and do whatever you want impinges on the rights of your neighbor. Should you really be able to own a flock of 80 parrots in a small NYC apartment? What about your neighbors who may enjoy sleeping every once in a while? Having a "free" country in that sense is basically asking for anarchy, which doesn't work at all either. Plenty of underdeveloped countries with governments that can't do anything on a national scale for a multitude of reasons and they are no where that I would like to live. Just try driving in Port Au Prince, you will really appreciate the regulatory traffic police we have here in the US and in many other countries.

Of course the idea is that people should be able to responsibly own animals- from tarantulas to cats. It is probably best that a license is required in most states to own certain types of wildlife, lest you end up with more terrible stories like this one from last year:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/zanesville-animal-massacre-included-18-rare-bengal-tigers/story?id=14767017

The main issue is that the laws tend to target certain kinds of animals without warrant, like tarantulas and snakes. There are many potential benefits to having informed, passionate hobbyists as patrons of the worlds biota, plants and animals alike. It helps bring all kinds of issues to the forefront, keeps the public interested and informed and literally sometimes saves a species from complete extinction (Barbary Lion, Spix's Macaw, Escarpment Cycads, and so on). All of this aside from the enrichment many of us benefit from personally by having the opportunity to work closely with organisms that we admire.

But would you want just anyone to get there hands on the last few Barbary lions? Not at all. They could end up in a canned hunt or loose in downtown LA. So our efforts should not be tailored by being afraid either. We should not be afraid of regulations- we should not extrapolate from one tiny law that prohibits the general person from owning a pack of tigers to mean that our guns, our right to privacy, right to free speech, etc. are next on the list. Please remember that most of these laws are made by silly reactionary people immediately after some kind of crisis becomes noticed by the public. One boa owned by a moron eats a kid and a politician who may have hated snakes his or her entire life will enact a law because they don't know that the boa is not particularly dangerous unless it is underfed and allowed to crawl freely in the baby cradle at night. We simply need to strive to show that more people are hurt by their dogs or horses, that cats are more destructive, that cultivating rare animals like Ameca splendens has saved the animal from extinction, so that when authorities sit down to consider what constitutes sound pet ownership regulations they are based on evidence and not some emotional and irrational response to a certain type of animal. The majority of American families own at least a dog and yet the majority of American families don't have terrible dog related injuries. We have to show that this is also true of tarantulas and snakes as well. As long as people understand they are much more likely to appreciate and protect not only the rights of their neighbors to responsibly enjoy captive care of some of the lesser known or popular members of the world's biota but also the rights of the organisms in question, both at home and in the wild. Just keep working to inform your neighbors. I think we all know that even arachnophobes can eventually at least appreciate a tarantula if the right person in the right setting can demonstrate to them how harmless and beautiful and interesting and imperiled they can be.

 

[Anonymity82]

Please explain why homicide rates are so much lower in Europe. And, do I have to tell you, there are many possibilities between weapons for everyone and totally outlawing them. There is a way to own a gun in most European countries and I think for your security you don't need bazooka, minigun and a rifle.

Exactly, I don't think the people of America should be able to order 5000 rounds of ammunition for an automatic rifle. That's ridiculous.

The problem is many citizens see this as an infringement on our rights. Many citizens start to panic when they think about giving up rights to the government. A government in which seemingly most people no longer agrees with.

 

[Stan Schultz]

In glancing through these three dozen plus posts I am impressed by one overwhelming fact: It has not occurred to any one of you that we are failing miserably to control the single most destructive, invasive species on the planet. One so populous as to number in the BILLIONS. We see them everywhere and all the time, but do nothing to reduce their numbers or control their destructive efforts.

Any damage done by pythons in Florida, Russian thistle across the USA, marine toads and rabbits in Australia, dandelions in your front yard, hogs in Texas and Hawaii, feral cats the world round, pales to insignificance when compared to the damage done by this species.

What are these creatures?

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

[size=+2]GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR![/size]​

And eventually we are all going to have to pay for this dearly!

I am only wise enough to realize that a massive problem exists. I cannot appreciate its true magnitude partly because of the problem's size, partly because I am part of that problem and am having a terrible time wrestling with my own biases, prejudices, and self interests. And because of my participation in the problem, any potential solution that I might devise has significant failings that either make it useless, even counterproductive, or exceedingly repugnant to me. And, no one else seems to be doing any better.

May whatever Gods there be, whether you believe in them or not, help us. For we cannot help ourselves!