How do you all remember tarantula names when everyone always shortens the genus?

[Leila]

That still doesn't sound like the 'ch' pronounced in original way.
The 'gh' is the sound of 'f'. 'laughing' sounds like 'lehfing' in US, and laowfing in UK.
Sigh...very hard to get a point across when missing the vocabulary....

...and this is what happens when you get a bunch of smart people together in the same room...

 

[DubiaW]

Yes, oe (same as ae) changes to long /eː/, but it should be more "bear" or "fair" sound, not "weed" sound .

I have been pronouncing "ae" like it is in "bear" but from what I am reading on scientific name pronunciation sites it should actually be "ee." From my fading memories of being "corrected" at university that is the case, "ee" is correct. I'm guilty of messing that one up too. As far as "oe" it is pretty unanimous that it is pronounced "ee" as in foetus or amoeba. The modern american english spelling in the word foetus has actually been changed to "fetus" to sooth our lazy tongues, where amoeba remains traditional. Unfortunately there are modern adaptations to the pronunciation of latin which change with time, which defeats the entire purpose of using a dead language for a universal naming system. An example that is pretty common is the name Aloë. The "ë" indicates that the "oe" is not a dipthong and the vowels should be pronounced separately "ah-lo-uh" but it is accepted to pronounce it "ah-loh" just because....well, it is hard to change something that has the exact same spelling but a different pronunciation in the mother tongue. Scientific sites are telling me that "aë" is the equivalent of "æ," indicating the absence of a dipthong and the pronuciation "A-uh" but Latin poetry sites are saying the exact opposite. Call it poetic licence.

I've been doing a lot of homework on the subject this week out of curiosity and the desire to be correct. It feels so pompous, but using Latin names earns that moniker by default in most circles, so if pronouncing Latin correctly makes me pompous I'm just going to own that "pompous ass hat" award with pride. After all "smart ass" is just an insult the uneducated placate themselves with. Pompous ass hat trophy please. I've earned it.

 

[Vermis]

The 'gh' is the sound of 'f'. 'laughing' sounds like 'lehfing' in US, and laowfing in UK.
Sigh...very hard to get a point across when missing the vocabulary....

Nope. The gh/ch in lough/loch is a throaty, rasping 'kh' sound of celtic origin, similar to germanic (e.g. Bach) and arabic pronunciations. It's not pronounced in the same way as 'laugh', 'tough' or even 'Loughborough'*. Living in the middle of Northern Ireland, I'd notice if it was supposed to be pronounced 'Luff Neagh'.

In fact it sounds throatier than I've heard even mexicans pronounce 'jalapeño', which doesn't sound too different from a standard 'ha', to my ears. Maybe has a bit more push to it. I assumed the latin pronunciation of 'ch' was more like 'kh' given Patherophis' example of a 'german ch', but 'spanish j' isn't clearing enough phlegm for my liking.

*Funny thing is, I found two pronunciation guides for Loughborough on youtube. One went with 'Lockborough'; the other 'Louwborough'...

 

[Andrea82]

Nope. The gh/ch in lough/loch is a throaty, rasping 'kh' sound of celtic origin, similar to germanic (e.g. Bach) and arabic pronunciations. It's not pronounced in the same way as 'laugh', 'tough' or even 'Loughborough'*. Living in the middle of Northern Ireland, I'd notice if it was supposed to be pronounced 'Luff Neagh'.

In fact it sounds throatier than I've heard even mexicans pronounce 'jalapeño', which doesn't sound too different from a standard 'ha', to my ears. Maybe has a bit more push to it. I assumed the latin pronunciation of 'ch' was more like 'kh' given Patherophis' example of a 'german ch', but 'spanish j' isn't clearing enough phlegm for my liking.

*Funny thing is, I found two pronunciation guides for Loughborough on youtube. One went with 'Lockborough'; the other 'Louwborugh'...

Ah, didn't catch you were Irish...in that case, yes. Irish 'gh' sure sounds like the 'ch' sounds! Hell, that sounds more throaty than I could ever achieve speaking only Dutch

 

[Patherophis]

I have been pronouncing "ae" like it is in "bear" but from what I am reading on scientific name pronunciation sites it should actually be "ee." From my fading memories of being "corrected" at university that is the case, "ee" is correct. I'm guilty of messing that one up too. As far as "oe" it is pretty unanimous that it is pronounced "ee" as in foetus or amoeba. The modern american english spelling in the word foetus has actually been changed to "fetus" to sooth our lazy tongues, where amoeba remains traditional. Unfortunately there are modern adaptations to the pronunciation of latin which change with time, which defeats the entire purpose of using a dead language for a universal naming system. An example that is pretty common is the name Aloë. The "ë" indicates that the "oe" is not a dipthong and the vowels should be pronounced separately "ah-lo-uh" but it is accepted to pronounce it "ah-loh" just because....well, it is hard to change something that has the exact same spelling but a different pronunciation in the mother tongue. Scientific sites are telling me that "aë" is the equivalent of "æ," indicating the absence of a dipthong and the pronuciation "A-uh" but Latin poetry sites are saying the exact opposite. Call it poetic licence.

I've been doing a lot of homework on the subject this week out of curiosity and the desire to be correct. It feels so pompous, but using Latin names earns that moniker by default in most circles, so if pronouncing Latin correctly makes me pompous I'm just going to own that "pompous ass hat" award with pride. After all "smart ass" is just an insult the uneducated placate themselves with. Pompous ass hat trophy please. I've earned it.

The main problem is probably that there are not general internationally accepted rules for new Latin pronunciation. This table illustrates the mess perfectly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation. So basically, what English authorities say is “right”, rest of world can consider insane and not Latin… I have personally big reservations to English way as it is probably most differentiated from late classical Latin and, mainly because of tendency to shift vowels, it is almost impossible to understand it and guess spelling from it.

As I am Latin enthusiast and have to cope with this a lot during study, You got my respect sir.

 

[DubiaW]

The Europeans I have known had to take Latin in secondary school. The Latin joke in the Harry Potter movie series is completely lost on most of the American audience. "It's Le-vi-o-sah not Levi-osuh!" It is actually a stab at Latin lessons.

So basically, what English authorities say is “right”, rest of world can consider insane and not Latin… I have personally big reservations to English way as it is probably most differentiated from late classical Latin and, mainly because of tendency to shift vowels, it is almost impossible to understand it and guess spelling from it.

Totally agree! It should just be Latin. The whole system was supposed to prevent arbitrary naming. You should have seen the look on my face when I found out there was such thing as Ecclesiastical, Classical and Reformed Classical Latin. Which one?

 

[DubiaW]

Nope. The gh/ch in lough/loch is a throaty, rasping 'kh' sound of celtic origin, similar to germanic (e.g. Bach) and arabic pronunciations. It's not pronounced in the same way as 'laugh', 'tough' or even 'Loughborough'*. Living in the middle of Northern Ireland, I'd notice if it was supposed to be pronounced 'Luff Neagh'.

In fact it sounds throatier than I've heard even mexicans pronounce 'jalapeño', which doesn't sound too different from a standard 'ha', to my ears. Maybe has a bit more push to it. I assumed the latin pronunciation of 'ch' was more like 'kh' given Patherophis' example of a 'german ch', but 'spanish j' isn't clearing enough phlegm for my liking.

*Funny thing is, I found two pronunciation guides for Loughborough on youtube. One went with 'Lockborough'; the other 'Louwborough'...

Loaghtan sheep (Locktan). I only had prior knowledge of the pronunciation of "gh" because it's my favorite sheep. What? Doesn't everyone have a favorite sheep?

 

[Ellenantula]

I'm not sure when Latin was removed from the public school system in the US. Might even have just been a regional thing and is still taught in some areas. I do know it was a normal part of my grandmother's high school curriculum (she was born in 1901). I can still recall being amazed she had studied Latin (she never went to college but she did finish high school and was proud of that). Both my parents remember it being offered in high school, but it was just an elective course.
I never studied Latin in high school or college (never even considered it) but wish I had now.

 

[keks]

Loaghtan sheep (Locktan). I only had prior knowledge of the pronunciation of "gh" because it's my favorite sheep. What? Doesn't everyone have a favorite sheep?

Very nice sheep, my favorite sheep is https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walliser_Schwarznasenschaf ^^.

 

[DubiaW]

Very nice sheep, my favorite sheep is https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walliser_Schwarznasenschaf ^^.

Very cool

 

[Vermis]

What? Doesn't everyone have a favorite sheep?

Jacob sheep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_(sheep)

Some of my brother in law's family breed 'em.
I'm also fond of swaledales, blue texels, and rouge de l'ouest.

 

[Andrea82]

Jacob sheep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_(sheep)

Some of my brother in law's family breed 'em.
I'm also fond of swaledales, blue texels, and rouge de l'ouest.

Are those 'texels' from the isle of Texel in the Netherlands?

 

[boina]

The main problem is probably that there are not general internationally accepted rules for new Latin pronunciation. This table illustrates the mess perfectly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation. So basically, what English authorities say is “right”, rest of world can consider insane and not Latin… I have personally big reservations to English way as it is probably most differentiated from late classical Latin and, mainly because of tendency to shift vowels, it is almost impossible to understand it and guess spelling from it.

As I am Latin enthusiast and have to cope with this a lot during study, You got my respect sir.

Yes! Finally someone who understands it. I agree, what English speaking people consider "proper" pronunciation of Latin is anglizised, and in many case to an extend that makes it practically impossible to understand if you are not a native English speaker.

And btw, as someone who has ae, oe, and ue sounds in her native language: Originally they all sound different and certainly not 'ee', but since they do not have an English equivalent it's hard to describe. No German would ever think of pronuncing pee-ceelo-theria and they don't understand you if you try, no matter how officially right it is in English. In German it's poe-tsee-lo-teria. (Btw., the 'th' sound does not exist in Latin and is always pronounced 't'). And it's not Pokies, either, but Poetsies .

Anyone not confused yet?

(From a completely different science: I've dabbled a bit in painting and I've spent weeks wondering what Americans meant when they were talking of 'Tishen'. I finally figured out they meant Tizian...)

 

[boina]

Oh, and my favorite sheep is the northern German Deichschaf of course http://hoesti.de/neu/hoestis-arbeiten/cartoons/voll-schaf/

 

[Vermis]

This table illustrates the mess perfectly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_regional_pronunciation. So basically, what English authorities say is “right”, rest of world can consider insane and not Latin…

Judging by that table, you can get rid of anglicised latin, and then everyone else's latin - down to anyone not from your home country or alumnus - will be insane!

Are those 'texels' from the isle of Texel in the Netherlands?

Blue texels, search search, click click... yes!

 

[Patherophis]

Judging by that table, you can get rid of anglicised latin, and then everyone else's latin - down to anyone not from your home country or alumnus - will be insane!

I accept that there are regional differences and don’t want to force my way to anybody, but English way is far from all others.
The way I prefer is not my country’s way, it is used in big part of Europe by people of very different languages, and I have nothing against e.g. Italian way as it is quite well understandable.

Edit: I erased that sentence, it really was a bit rude and unfair generalization.

 

[Leila]

I accept that there are regional differences and don’t want to force my way to anybody, but English way is far from all others. Don’t take this offensive, but it often seems like that when it comes to Latin, Greek or foreign words in general, most people around the world are trying their best while majority of English speakers just don’t care.
The way I prefer is not my country’s way, it is used in big part of Europe by people of very different languages, and I have nothing against e.g. Italian way as it is quite well understandable.

I could be pedantic in regards to your formation of sentences in the English language. Is its structure loose due to the fact that you do not care??

Alas, I digress. (Honestly, I just wanted to jump in the conversation. I am truly not picking a fight. Haha.)

Everyone, put away the verbal weapons. Simmer down. I come in peace.

 

[darkness975]

I'm American but I speak three languages fluently. So I guess I fall into the exception category.

 

[Patherophis]

I could be pedantic in regards to your formation of sentences in the English language. Is its structure loose due to the fact that you do not care??

Alas, I digress. (Honestly, I just wanted to jump in the conversation. I am truly not picking a fight. Haha.)

Everyone, put away the verbal weapons. Simmer down. I come in peace.

I am sorry about my structure, I know sometimes it is terrible. We tend have a problem with it here because of mother language structure, but that does not excuse me. It is probably the most common problem our correctors have to deal with.

 

[DubiaW]

Ah so. Deutschlanders are some of the most the most avid people about doing things the correct way. I appreciate the info. I spent summer 97 over there travelling around but most of my time was spent in the Bielefeld area in Blomberg, Detmold and Herford. I learned a little bit of Deutsch over there but I have forgotten most of it. Does the Latin "c" have the same "ts" pronunciation as "z" does in Deutsch? In one Latin verbal translator Poecilotheria the "oe" had near the same pronunciation as the English word "whey" or sounded out "üe". So now I am confused a little. That pretty much settles it, I just need to take a classic Latin course.

I do remember a few phrases in Deutsch. For example: "Auch boina muß mal scheiße."

Yes! Finally someone who understands it. I agree, what English speaking people consider "proper" pronunciation of Latin is anglizised, and in many case to an extend that makes it practically impossible to understand if you are not a native English speaker.

And btw, as someone who has ae, oe, and ue sounds in her native language: Originally they all sound different and certainly not 'ee', but since they do not have an English equivalent it's hard to describe. No German would ever think of pronuncing pee-ceelo-theria and they don't understand you if you try, no matter how officially right it is in English. In German it's poe-tsee-lo-teria. (Btw., the 'th' sound does not exist in Latin and is always pronounced 't'). And it's not Pokies, either, but Poetsies .

Anyone not confused yet?

(From a completely different science: I've dabbled a bit in painting and I've spent weeks wondering what Americans meant when they were talking of 'Tishen'. I finally figured out they meant Tizian...)