How do you all remember tarantula names when everyone always shortens the genus?

[keks]

Actually I think scientific names are not only used in in tarantula conversations. Orchid lovers use scientific names, too. A lot of plant lovers in general use scientific names. It actually makes a conversation across language barriers in our global world a lot easier. I knew Dionaea right away, although I also knew Venus Fly Trap since that translates one to one to German, so not the best example. And common names for birds and plants have been around for centennia, everyone grew up with them. Everyone knows what a Poppy is, but Mexican Red Leg? Tarantula names haven't been around for more than a couple of decades. People are still making up new ones today. So, why not just stick with the scientific names? And for common names not being confusing: If you can keep track of all the various white and red and striped legs and knees and whatever without being confused you are a much more organised person than I am.

Edit: I deal with English common names if I have to by using Google, and usually without a rant, but I don't have to like it.

Not only the orchids, or other plants. Years ago, I had turtles and tortoises, snakes (I had a separate terrarium room with many different animals) ..... We only made our conversations with the scientific names even in German language. It was not always funny, to learn the new names after re-naming (and sometimes re-re-naming ).
But to talk to people from other countries it is the only way to be sure we mean the same species. There was no need to know common names in German, Slovak, Czech, or Polish (language?). And in this time there was also no smartphone with google to search for translating, too .

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Remembering them for the most part is fairly easily, but it really does get complicated when the spider in question hasn't actually been given a proper name. Like the previously mentioned Eauthlus sp. Red, I've heard there is some dispute regarding Eauthlus being the proper genus for the species.

There shouldn't be any dispute. The spider sold as Euathlus sp. "red" is an arbitrary pet trade identification based on nothing and is constantly reused incorrectly over and over again despite the relevant taxonomic characters being pictured and published online showing it is actually a Homoeomma sp. It is an undescribed species from Chile, but a generic ID can be made in both males and females. No one seems to want to verify this themselves choosing to just repeat the same bad generic name everywhere. This is true for a lot of the Chilean tarantulas sold on the pet trade. Species sold as Phrixotrichus are usually a Euathlus species, species sold as a Paraphysa species are Euathlus species because Paraphysa is a junior synonym of Euathlus, and I think I have seen some Euathlus species (as Paraphysa) pictured that are actually Phrixotrichus species.

On the topic of this post in general though, there are times I see abbreviated scientific names and common names and I usually have no idea what is being referred to. That's when I just click onto something else. If someone can't be bothered to be clear and concise in their communication at the start, then I don't have the time to ask for clarification. I spend enough time keeping up with taxonomic changes and their justifications and revised ID keys (where available) that I can't keep up with slang or shorthand too.

 

[Trenor]

Actually I think scientific names are not only used in in tarantula conversations. Orchid lovers use scientific names, too. A lot of plant lovers in general use scientific names. It actually makes a conversation across language barriers in our global world a lot easier. I knew Dionaea right away, although I also knew Venus Fly Trap since that translates one to one to German, so not the best example. And common names for birds and plants have been around for centennia, everyone grew up with them. Everyone knows what a Poppy is, but Mexican Red Leg? Tarantula names haven't been around for more than a couple of decades. People are still making up new ones today. So, why not just stick with the scientific names? And for common names not being confusing: If you can keep track of all the various white and red and striped legs and knees and whatever without being confused you are a much more organised person than I am.

Edit: I deal with English common names if I have to by using Google, and usually without a rant, but I don't have to like it.

Not only the orchids, or other plants. Years ago, I had turtles and tortoises, snakes (I had a separate terrarium room with many different animals) ..... We only made our conversations with the scientific names even in German language. It was not always funny, to learn the new names after re-naming (and sometimes re-re-naming ).
But to talk to people from other countries it is the only way to be sure we mean the same species. There was no need to know common names in German, Slovak, Czech, or Polish (language?). And in this time there was also no smartphone with google to search for translating, too .

We find new plant species all the time and they get common names pretty quick. Those imported plants from Brazil I saw last week had common names and on the other side of the card they had the scientific name. No one there used the scientific names that I heard in the two hours I was there.

In the plant group my mother belonged to for years people did both as well. You find scientific names a lot more in specialty groups but still in those groups it wasn't a hot button topic. One thing they did was help to ID local plants and give care instructions for those plants. If a person came to a group meeting to ask about plants and used a common name no one had a problem with it at all.

On here though, I could make a new account and post something about my GBB not doing well and everyone wouldn't pay it a bit of attention. I'd likely get a lot of good help. I could then make a second account and post about my Fire Rump Birdeater not doing well. I'd get a lecture about the evils of common names. Then a big portion of the rest of the thread would be about common name are bad and not what the actual thread was about. Those are both common names yet on here no one cares if you use GBB. I do it all the time.

My point in all this wasn't to justify the use of common names. Use them or don't I can function both ways.

Here comes the common name rant. It's really not a big deal peeps. We use common names for tons of other things.

My point with the above post was why is this such issue that a thread about X turns into a common name are bad discussion. Feel free to swap the X out for My T is sick or How did you learn scientific names or Check out my T where the poster used a common name or mentioned scientific names. You'd think the replies you'd get back would be Sick T care help or Here is how I learned the scientific names or That's a cool T have fun with him. But you're just as likely to see all those threads devolve into a common name are bad discussion. I don't get it when we use common names all the time elsewhere and nothing bad comes from it.

Maybe you're right in a few more centuries we'll finally be used common names for Ts. Then we'll talk about the Fire Rump Birdeater like we do a swallow.

 

[Andrea82]

There shouldn't be any dispute. The spider sold as Euathlus sp. "red" is an arbitrary pet trade identification based on nothing and is constantly reused incorrectly over and over again despite the relevant taxonomic characters being pictured and published online showing it is actually a Homoeomma sp. It is an undescribed species from Chile, but a generic ID can be made in both males and females. No one seems to want to verify this themselves choosing to just repeat the same bad generic name everywhere. This is true for a lot of the Chilean tarantulas sold on the pet trade. Species sold as Phrixotrichus are usually a Euathlus species, species sold as a Paraphysa species are Euathlus species because Paraphysa is a junior synonym of Euathlus, and I think I have seen some Euathlus species (as Paraphysa) pictured that are actually Phrixotrichus species.

On the topic of this post in general though, there are times I see abbreviated scientific names and common names and I usually have no idea what is being referred to. That's when I just click onto something else. If someone can't be bothered to be clear and concise in their communication at the start, then I don't have the time to ask for clarification. I spend enough time keeping up with taxonomic changes and their justifications and revised ID keys (where available) that I can't keep up with slang or shorthand too.

Ah, so Euathlus sp. Red changing to Homoeomma sp. Red/Fire is final?
I get confused, seeing them listed as Euathlus here, but as Homoeomma in vendor's sales lists here in Europe.

 

[keks]

@Trenor
This thread is called "How do you all remember tarantula names when everyone shortens the genus". It is not my intention to say, common names are bad. I only said, I prefer to use scientific names, because there I know exactly what species it is.

@AphonopelmaTX
If Euathlus sp. red is now the discribed scientific name, or a temporary name before the scientific discribing, I don't care about. With this name I can order this tarantula, and everybody knows, what I mean. With "Rotknievogelspinne" I wouldn't be sure. Is ist now B. hamorii (ex smithi), or not ^^. Like @andrea or @boina said: The lists in Europe to order tarantulas are mainly written with the scientific names (mostly even without common names), so you have to know them, if you want to make an order ^^.

Please note: My English skills are really not the best, so please excuse me, if my postings maybe sounds impolite. I really do not mean it in this way. And please excuse me, when I overlook something, but to read here is a very hard challenge for me. My best friend is dict.cc . Hard times for me here, but I hope to grow with this challenge ^^.

 

[BishopiMaster]

Can't resist to drop something in the discussion. Just a thought...

Using and making common names seems like a more US thing to do. When going through vendors' lists here, the scientific names come first, with the common names sometimes below that, if at all there. Vendors' lists based in the US seem to start more with the common names and the scientific names under those.
So I guess it seems like the US likes its common names.
That's fine for you. But it doesn't mean the rest if the world has to use common names as well.
I know I'll be getting roasted for this so bring it on..

Damn andrea, American shaming again.

 

[Andrea82]

Damn andrea, American shaming again.

Nice one

 

[DubiaW]

There lies the problem with common names. How would someone figure out what they were looking at when traveling from one country to the next? The exotic species enthusiast (of any sort) is cosmopolitan. The only solution is a universal naming system, I don't particularly care what locals call a species in Laos versus Burma unless I am operating in those areas but I certainly care what the Latin name is. Visa versa, why would anyone else care what English speaking trade enthusiasts call their pets. There is a big problem with common names even here in the states, the official common name of the genus Crotaphytus is collared lizard, in Texas people crook their head and look at you funny if you call them a collard lizard and correct you, "You mean Mountain Boomers?" They will argue with you if you try to correct them, seriously. If they say "Dagger" they are actually referring to Yucca elata the Soaptree Yucca. Virtually no one in Arizona calls Aphonopelma chalcodes a Desert Blond, they just call it a "Tarantula." Using either the official "Not-so-common" name or the Latin name has the same effect on the locals. They think you are a super smart weirdo or a conceited show off. When talking to anyone out of country the "Not so common" name is also useless. People learn proper common names for the same reason people learn Latin, "to learn the proper terminology," and because calling a collard lizard a mountain boomer makes you sound like a hillbilly in every language.

 

[Andrea82]

There lies the problem with common names. How would someone figure out what they were looking at when traveling from one country to the next? The exotic species enthusiast (of any sort) is cosmopolitan. The only solution is a universal naming system, I don't particularly care what locals call a species in Laos versus Burma unless I am operating in those areas but I certainly care what the Latin name is. Visa versa, why would anyone else care what English speaking trade enthusiasts call their pets. There is a big problem with common names even here in the states, the official common name of the genus Crotaphytus is collared lizard, in Texas people crook their head and look at you funny if you call them a collard lizard and correct you, "You mean Mountain Boomers?" They will argue with you if you try to correct them, seriously. If they say "Dagger" they are actually referring to Yucca elata the Soaptree Yucca. Virtually no one in Arizona calls Aphonopelma chalcodes a Desert Blond, they just call it a "Tarantula." Using either the official "Not-so-common" name or the Latin name has the same effect on the locals. They think you are a super smart weirdo or a conceited show off. When talking to anyone out of country the "Not so common" name is also useless. People learn proper common names for the same reason people learn Latin, "to learn the proper terminology," and because calling a collard lizard a mountain boomer makes you sound like a hillbilly in every language.

Not sure if post is pro-scientific name or against....

 

[DubiaW]

Not sure if post is pro-scientific name or against....
View attachment 241649

Proper common names are less commonly used by the locals who just make up a name or are ignorant. Neither the proper common name or the scientific name are useful when talking to locals. You might as well use the scientific name because it is more correct and more people world wide will understand you. Although Proper common names might be something that is seen as American thing if you look closer it doesn't even get used on a local level here. When I run into an enthusiast in the field around here they know the Latin names of what they are dealing with, most everyone else can't tell the difference between a tarantula or a wolf spider. Proper common names are useless on a local level. You know, plebeians?

 

[Trenor]

There lies the problem with common names. How would someone figure out what they were looking at when traveling from one country to the next? The exotic species enthusiast (of any sort) is cosmopolitan. The only solution is a universal naming system, I don't particularly care what locals call a species in Laos versus Burma unless I am operating in those areas but I certainly care what the Latin name is. Visa versa, why would anyone else care what English speaking trade enthusiasts call their pets. There is a big problem with common names even here in the states, the official common name of the genus Crotaphytus is collared lizard, in Texas people crook their head and look at you funny if you call them a collard lizard and correct you, "You mean Mountain Boomers?" They will argue with you if you try to correct them, seriously. If they say "Dagger" they are actually referring to Yucca elata the Soaptree Yucca. Virtually no one in Arizona calls Aphonopelma chalcodes a Desert Blond, they just call it a "Tarantula." Using either the official "Not-so-common" name or the Latin name has the same effect on the locals. They think you are a super smart weirdo or a conceited show off. When talking to anyone out of country the "Not so common" name is also useless. People learn proper common names for the same reason people learn Latin, "to learn the proper terminology," and because calling a collard lizard a mountain boomer makes you sound like a hillbilly in every language.

What do you call a gold fish man? Have you never called a swallow a swallow? Anyone not know what a poison dart frog is? Anyone have trouble figuring out what a rattlesnake is? Have you ever called a rattlesnake anything else? Does anyone over seas not know what a rattlesnake is? Even if you didn't know what all those thing were right off the bat would it be hard to find out? All of those are common names and people use them all the time without being thought a hillbilly or what ever term you want to use for someone with less learning.

There is also a big difference between a common name and my grandmother referring to a chicken (which is a common name BTW) as a yard bird. She also called the black ones with a silver looking band around their necks a ring neck but that's not a common name either. Do you go into a restaurant and order fried Gallus gallus domesticus? Or do you, like millions of others, just go get some fried chicken?

I can point out so many more common names we use every day and no one cares. We do this all the time and it's not a big deal. Do it with Ts and suddenly no one knows what your talking about.

 

[BishopiMaster]

What do you call a gold fish man? Have you never called a swallow a swallow? Anyone not know what a poison dart frog is? Anyone have trouble figuring out what a rattlesnake is? Have you ever called a rattlesnake anything else? Does anyone over seas not know what a rattlesnake is? Even if you didn't know what all those thing were right off the bat would it be hard to find out? All of those are common names and people use them all the time without being thought a hillbilly or what ever term you want to use for someone with less learning.

There is also a big difference between a common name and my grandmother referring to a chicken (which is a common name BTW) as a yard bird. She also called the black ones with a silver looking band around their necks a ring neck but that's not a common name either. Do you go into a restaurant and order fried Gallus gallus domesticus? Or do you, like millions of others, just go get some fried chicken?

I can point out so many more common names we use every day and no one cares. We do this all the time and it's not a big deal. Do it with Ts and suddenly no one knows what your talking about.

Definitely going to go order some fried gallus now.

 

[Trenor]

Proper common names are less commonly used by the locals who just make up a name or are ignorant. Neither the proper common name or the scientific name are useful when talking to locals. You might as well use the scientific name because it is more correct and more people world wide will understand you. Although Proper common names might be something that is seen as American thing if you look closer it doesn't even get used on a local level here. When I run into an enthusiast in the field around here they know the Latin names of what they are dealing with, most everyone else can't tell the difference between a tarantula or a wolf spider. Proper common names are useless on a local level. You know, plebeians?

Now we have proper common names? Vs what? Un-proper common names? Who decides which is which between the two? Where is that list?

Calling people plebeians is just tacky bro. Just because someone doesn't know as much as you on a topic doesn't mean you should put them down.

 

[DubiaW]

To make things a little more complicated enthusiasts also go one step beyond abbreviating the genus. Sometimes it is conjugated or shortened. Poecilotheria becomes "Pokies" and something like Diplocentrus spitzeri becomes "Spitz." It's easier to yell in field when you are collecting but in bad taste if you are talking to anyone who isn't local.

 

[Trenor]

Definitely going to go order some fried gallus now.

Video it, cause I want to see what the lady working at KFC reaction is. Should be good for some amusement.

 

[Andrea82]

What do you call a gold fish man? Have you never called a swallow a swallow? Anyone not know what a poison dart frog is? Anyone have trouble figuring out what a rattlesnake is? Have you ever called a rattlesnake anything else? Does anyone over seas not know what a rattlesnake is? Even if you didn't know what all those thing were right off the bat would it be hard to find out? All of those are common names and people use them all the time without being thought a hillbilly or what ever term you want to use for someone with less learning.

There is also a big difference between a common name and my grandmother referring to a chicken (which is a common name BTW) as a yard bird. She also called the black ones with a silver looking band around their necks a ring neck but that's not a common name either. Do you go into a restaurant and order fried Gallus gallus domesticus? Or do you, like millions of others, just go get some fried chicken?

I can point out so many more common names we use every day and no one cares. We do this all the time and it's not a big deal. Do it with Ts and suddenly no one knows what your talking about.

You call a chicken a chicken. I call a chicken a kip. Would you have known that if I didn't tell you just now?
Why do non-native english or even American speakers have to learn and use an english or American word for an animal that, with the exeption of Aphonopelma, isn't even native to North America in the first place?
I know a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake because it is native to (amongst other countries) America.

Darn it, caught in with this again...
Scientific language is universal. It is the same everywhere, and for good reason. What would happen if doctors in the US were suddenly making up their own names for surgeries and bodyparts, and expect the rest of the world to go with that?

And no, I am not against the US at all, if I was, I wouldn't be here. But expecting from the rest of the world to follow YOUR common names is unpolite to say the least, and very self-centered.

 

[DubiaW]

Now we have proper common names? Vs what? Un-proper common names? Who decides which is which between the two? Where is that list?

Calling people plebeians is just tacky bro. Just because someone doesn't know as much as you on a topic doesn't mean you should put them down.

Sometimes I forget that sarcasm is rude in other countries.

 

[Trenor]

Sometimes I forget that sarcasm is rude in other countries.

Was it sarcasm? A toneless post does little to allude to things like sarcasm.

 

[Trenor]

You call a chicken a chicken. I call a chicken a kip. Would you have known that if I didn't tell you just now?
Why do non-native english or even American speakers have to learn and use an english or American word for an animal that, with the exeption of Aphonopelma, isn't even native to North America in the first place?
I know a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake because it is native to (amongst other countries) America.

Darn it, caught in with this again...
Scientific language is universal. It is the same everywhere, and for good reason. What would happen if doctors in the US were suddenly making up their own names for surgeries and bodyparts, and expect the rest of the world to go with that?

And no, I am not against the US at all, if I was, I wouldn't be here. But expecting from the rest of the world to follow YOUR common names is unpolite to say the least, and very self-centered.

Your right, I wouldn't have known what a kip was. But be honest, if you didn't know chicken would you have been any more likely to know Gallus gallus domesticus without the same google search you could have used to find chicken?

I mean this was what turned up based on what I knew about your location and kip in 10 sec on a google search.

No one said you needed to learn anything. Use scientific names if you want. It just trips me out at the blow back I see over and over from this topic when we all (the whole world not just us US peeps) use tons of common names daily. Without a care.

 

[Andrea82]

Your right, I wouldn't have known what a kip was. But be honest, if you didn't know chicken would you have been any more likely to know Gallus gallus domesticus without the same google search you could have used to find chicken?

I mean this was what turned up based on what I knew about your location and kip in 10 sec on a google search.

No one said you needed to learn anything. Use scientific names if you want. It just trips me out at the blow back I see over and over from this topic when we all (the whole world not just us US peeps) use tons of common names daily. Without a care.

I understand that seems unequal.

I think this discussion comes up so frequently because of the fact virtually everyone on the world comes here. And in most European countries, keeping Theraphosidae is a specialized hobby. And also, we in Europe HAVE to use the scientific names because if I would ask a Polish breeder for a 'roodknie vogelspin' (which would be the literal translation for red knee tarantula) he would be like, 'what the hell are you talking about', probably in Polish back.
While in the US, you can travel for twenty hours, and still be in english-speaking country. So maybe the need for scientific names is not as high as it is for Europe, making us using them more.
But still, on an international forum like this, scientific names would be better to make sure everyone knows about which spider the op is talking imo.