HOT species

julesaussies

Arachnobaron
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i did a search for this but the most information i could really get was by reading the bite reports. From what i read, it sounds like bites from the same species can really vary based on whether it was a dry bite or how much venom used. i am curious about worst case senerio - true venom potency.

Does anyone know for example if all Pokie venom is the same?:?

Also, what order would you list the following from least to most venomous?

  • P. murinus
  • C. crawshayi
  • Ps. irminia
  • H. maculata
  • Poecilotheria Genus

Thanks! jules
 

Venom

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I did a search for this but the most information i could really get was by reading the bite reports. From what i read, it sounds like bites from the same species can really vary based on whether it was a dry bite or how much venom used. i am curious about worst case senerio - true venom potency.
Bite symptoms are caused by the venom much more than the actual physical bite ( fangs' puncturing action), so the degree of symtom severity really depends on the dosage of venom administered. Tarantulas have complete control over how much, if any, venom they inject. "Dry," venomless bites, in which the spider opts not to inject, really don't amount to anything more than a sore hole in the hand. No New World tarantula( species from North and South America, plus the Caribbean ) has anything resembling a serious venom--they are pretty much all negligible. Old world T's--Africans, Asians, Australians, etc., tend to have more potent venoms. These are the only T's whose bites cause any kind of significant symptoms. With these species, bite severity does depend on the dosage of venom given--even with bites from the same species, not all individual spiders, and not all bites will give the same amount of venom. This depends largely on the nature of the bite: was it a defensive bite, or did the spider think it was pouncing on a feeding-size item. Feeding bites, in which the spider thinks it is using its venom as an investment--to secure nourishment, see an outlay of greater venom resources than when the spider perceives a non-feeding size organism and deems it a threat. Since the spider is not going to receive any benefit of nutrition from the threat, the T will not use as much venom--only enough to make the animal/ human think twice before attacking the T. Even so, defensive bites vary in the dosage of venom, depending on the severity of the threat. If the spider is merely ticked off, it will give a different dosage than if it feels it is in IMMINENT danger--i.e.--poking a spider will elicit a lesser dosage than pulling its legs off would. So it all depends on the individual spider--some tick off more easily than others--, the situation and reason for the envenomation, and the severity of the threat, for defensive bites.


Does anyone know for example if all Pokie venom is the same?
The toxic compounds in pokie venoms are probably all very similar, if not identical. HOWEVER, the concentration of those toxins IN the venom ( the venom is a fluid in which toxic compounds are DISSOLVED--venom is not pure toxin, but has a fluid matrix. Thus, you can have the same venom, but to different strengths of concentration ). for one reason or another, pokie venoms do vary in strength. P.ornata has a stronger venom than P. regalis. It is also larger, so it could inject more venom even when all other factors are equal. P.striata and P. rufilata also can have quite severe bites. Be advised though, that comparing pokie bites is really akin to splitting hairs--they are all bad. Some are worse...but none of them are fun. ALSO, none of them are deadly. Unless you have some already life-threatening / severely health compromising syndrome/ disease, you will in all likelihood survive even a very bad pokie bite. However, if you were to have a serious condition like severe heart disease, emphysema, multiple sclerosis, cystic fibrosis, diabetes, muscular dystrophy, or another syndrome that severely affected your muscular, neurological, cardiac, circulatory, or respiratory systems, your disease would put you elevated danger when combined with a pokie bite.

NO-ONE has ever died from a pokie bite, as far as accurate medical records show. But, that is not to say it couldn't happen, in the instance of a very young child ( maybe ), frail elderly person, or someone with the above or similar health conditions.


Also, what order would you list the following from least to most venomous?

P. murinus
C. crawshayi
Ps. irminia
H. maculata
Poecilotheria Genus

Thanks! jules


I would rank them in this order:

Poecilotheria
Heteroscodra
Citharischius
Pterinochilus
Psalmopoeus

The bottom line on this is to be responsible, both with what you choose to keep, and how you keep them. Choose only species that you feel you could handle the bite from, and avoid species that could aggravate any medical condition you may have. ( for instance, pokies often cause bad muscle cramps, so nix if you have Muscular Dystrophy. They can also cause severe swelling, so you'd want to think twice if you had diabetes, as the circulation slowing could cause tissue necrosis in your case ).
 

Pociemon

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Sounds reasonable your explanation. But i wonder about the effect of a bite from a full grown T. Apophysis?

That is a big one and i imagine it has the capability to inject a lot of venom. But maybe it is just as a bee sting, ut i just have a little sling for now, so i dont worry for now;-)
 

Crotalus

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I wouldnt even use the term "hot" when talking about tarantula venom. They are not medical significant and therefor should not be labeled "hot".

However, to compare the discomfort of a bite - Poecilotheria, Heteroscodra and Pterinochilus are pretty much alike. Painful but not dangerous.
 

syndicate

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I wouldnt even use the term "hot" when talking about tarantula venom. They are not medical significant and therefor should not be labeled "hot".

However, to compare the discomfort of a bite - Poecilotheria, Heteroscodra and Pterinochilus are pretty much alike. Painful but not dangerous.
i wouldnt say some are not medical significant.lots of people have had to go to the hospital due to poecilotheria bites.and symptoms from poecilotheria venom can be rather long lasting.while not deadly they are nothing to mess with.
u might also want to add cyriopagopus and poss some of the other asians like haplopelma,lampropelma/ornithoctonus to the list.oh and also stromatopelma
 

julesaussies

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Thanks!

The bottom line on this is to be responsible, both with what you choose to keep, and how you keep them. Choose only species that you feel you could handle the bite from, and avoid species that could aggravate any medical condition you may have.
Venom,
Thank you for your very thorough explanation and you are very right: "The bottom line on this is to be responsible..." i was just curious how dangerous the venom actually is from some of the T's i already keep.

I wouldnt even use the term "hot" when talking about tarantula venom. They are not medical significant and therefor should not be labeled "hot"...
Crotalus,
Sorry - i misunderstood and thought the term was used for venomous animals. Is HOT an accroynm or just a term?

i wouldnt say some are not medical significant.lots of people have had to go to the hospital due to poecilotheria bites.and symptoms from poecilotheria venom can be rather long lasting.while not deadly they are nothing to mess with.
Good point! Just wasn't sure of the exact definition of "HOT"

u might also want to add cyriopagopus and poss some of the other asians like haplopelma,lampropelma/ornithoctonus to the list.oh and also stromatopelma
Definitely! However, i asked about the ones i did because i was mostly curious about T's i already keep. At this point i don't have plans to keep the other genius's you mentioned.
 

cacoseraph

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I wouldnt even use the term "hot" when talking about tarantula venom. They are not medical significant and therefor should not be labeled "hot".

However, to compare the discomfort of a bite - Poecilotheria, Heteroscodra and Pterinochilus are pretty much alike. Painful but not dangerous.
i wouldnt say some are not medical significant.lots of people have had to go to the hospital due to poecilotheria bites.and symptoms from poecilotheria venom can be rather long lasting.while not deadly they are nothing to mess with.
u might also want to add cyriopagopus and poss some of the other asians like haplopelma,lampropelma/ornithoctonus to the list.oh and also stromatopelma

i've never seen really good definitions that are obviously widely used for "medically significant" and "hot"... but if the reports (of which i've read three or four) of people being comatized from Poeci venom are true i would have a very hard time NOT considering them MS or hot.
 

Venom

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I wouldnt even use the term "hot" when talking about tarantula venom.
I agree--"hot" denotes an ability to cause life-threatening envenomations even in normal circumstances and in healthy people. In effect, "hot" denotes "deadly," which T's are not.



They are not medical significant and therefor should not be labeled "hot".

However, to compare the discomfort of a bite - Poecilotheria, Heteroscodra and Pterinochilus are pretty much alike. Painful but not dangerous.
Here I don't quite agree. I think you are running into some fine distinctions in vocabulary with this part. "Deadly," "dangerous," and "medically significant" all are DISTINCT shades of meaning / i.e. different severities. "Deadly," signifies that under normal circumstances, death is a definite possibility. "Dangerous" means that under most circumstances, death is unlikely, but does occasionally occur. "Medically significant," rules out the possibility/ probability of death in ANY circumstances except when there is a contributing factor ( a second threat ) involved. A lot of pain and suffering may result, and some limited physical damage, but not to a permanently debilitating extent.

"Medically significant" merely denotes that medical practitioners should take notice of the envenomation, for reasons of treating discomfort and / or non-threatening local hurt, and monitoring interaction with other conditions of the patient's health. "Dangerous" takes things a step higher, with death being a consideration, though an improbable one. Permanent damage of notable extent may also occur. "Deadly" declares that death is quite possible, and--depending on the type of venom--permanent serious damage is a definite possibility.


This may seem like semantic fiddling, but since we are trying to define phsiological effects in purely verbal terms, it is important that we get the terms and their meanings straight--or we will misapply the terms, and accidentally misinform listeners as to our animals' threat level.
 

lunixweb

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I only will say one thing.. the venom of each sp. is different but the most important fact is the people, because each one of us would have a different reaction to the venom of a bite, maybe if one poecilotheria bites someone he could need medical attention & other people couldn't need.
 

syndicate

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for one reason or another, pokie venoms do vary in strength. P.ornata has a stronger venom than P. regalis. It is also larger, so it could inject more venom even when all other factors are equal. P.striata and P. rufilata also can have quite severe bites.
do u have a referance for this?ive never read or heard of any studies on poecilotheria venom.interested in how u know this
 

spid142

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pokies

I have seven pokies, and consider all of them to be careful of while doing maint etc. They may not be medically significant, but bite reports Ive read are obviously not a fun experience, if a full envenomation.
 

Merfolk

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No New World tarantula( species from North and South America, plus the Caribbean ) has anything resembling a serious venom--they are pretty much all negligible.

I would rank them in this order:

Poecilotheria
Heteroscodra
Citharischius
Pterinochilus
Psalmopoeus

).
Psalmos are NW. Got you on this one Dude:}

Also, Ephebophus and Phormictopus (ore another one) are reported to have potent venom too!!!
 

Cringles

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I have Cystic Fibrosis! good read that was! ill have to wear a suit of armour when dealing with my pokies.
 

cacoseraph

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I agree--"hot" denotes an ability to cause life-threatening envenomations even in normal circumstances and in healthy people. In effect, "hot" denotes "deadly," which T's are not.
i disagree. because then copperheads and that missuaga rattler thingy wouldn't be called hots and they are.


i think hot means closer to medically significant than deadly. of course, i'm "defining" a term using another undefined term.... but hopefully the sort of connotation or whatever is more evident
 

julesaussies

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Psalmopoeus irminia

Psalmos are NW. Got you on this one Dude:}

Also, Ephebophus and Phormictopus (ore another one) are reported to have potent venom too!!!
Did you mean to put Psalmopoeus on that list venom?

-Sean
He probably included Psalmopoeus because it was part of the original group of T's i asked him about when i started this thread. i asked him to list from most venomous to least. i know there are many more species of venomous T's than what i asked about. i was mostly interested in venomous T's i was already currently keeping. i try to be very careful when doing any maintence & don't handle venomous T's. i was just curious about worse case scenerio for those particular few.

i realize Psalmopoeus irminia is New World but had heard it was quite venomous as well so that's why i included it in my list. Did i get wrong information?
 

ShadowBlade

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He probably included Psalmopoeus because it was part of the original group of T's i asked him about when i started this thread. i asked him to list from most venomous to least. i know there are many more species of venomous T's than what i asked about. i was mostly interested in venomous T's i was already currently keeping. i try to be very careful when doing any maintence & don't handle venomous T's. i was just curious about worse case scenerio for those particular few.

i realize Psalmopoeus irminia is New World but had heard it was quite venomous as well so that's why i included it in my list. Did i get wrong information?
Yes, you were misinformed. Its not that bad.

-Sean
 

julesaussies

Arachnobaron
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Yes, you were misinformed. Its not that bad.

-Sean
Thanks!! So, is this a T my niece can help me feed, etc? i know they're lightening fast but this kid is very good, calm around the T's and responsible. She is 12 and actually a great help to me. i'm so lucky to have her live with me. i just won't even have her near the more venomous T's. i still feel a little aprehensive about this one. i'd hate for her to get really sick from a T bite - her mother would flip and try to take her away! {D :evil:
 
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