Well, the guy lives in the same state as I do and has already paid for priority shipping.......what do you think I should do?
Heads Up - US Postal Service is enforcing the law
- Thread starter paulatpetshop
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2009
- Messages
- 55
Gosh, why the heck do so many people stay in their little ignorant worlds? If bees and scorpions are okay, why aren't tarantulas?
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,351
Thanks for the info Paul. On the bright side, and it is a very bright side, it sounds like they aren't going to charge you. A felony charge is nothing to sneeze at. Plus, it sounds like if they catch anyone else sending T's they'll probably use the same methods of 'scaring' people away from it rather than pressing charges to begin with.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,351
If he's in the same state, than ground shipping might show up in 1 or 2 business days and be a lot cheaper. Just put all the info here:
http://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home?cc=US&language=en
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2009
- Messages
- 1,393
I agree with everything that is said by Paul.. But I have only shipped through USPS.. I have also been told that shipping T's through Fedex is also illegal.. Soo who do we use? I cant say I have a business but I have sent alot of scorpions and I now have some T's that I need to get rid of.. Was I lied to about it being illegal sending through Fedex? If not who should I use?
I tried it before, It said that his zip code is invalid (it's not) and wouldn't work. :wall:
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2009
- Messages
- 1,351
When it comes to shipping reptiles through fedex you need to open an account and go through a certification process which allows you to ship live reptiles. I'm not sure if they offer this same process for inverts. In any case, the certification process takes weeks.
UPS has an agreement with shipyourreptiles.com (not fedex as I erroneously stated earlier) which allows users of the site to ship live reptiles. I don't know if that extends to inverts as well.
UPS has an agreement with shipyourreptiles.com (not fedex as I erroneously stated earlier) which allows users of the site to ship live reptiles. I don't know if that extends to inverts as well.
I may do this in the future but for this scorpion I will try fedex. If they find out about it, at least they can't charge me with a felony since they are a private company and I'm not breaking any federal rules.
By the way, what are the odds that they will ask what's in the package? I'm afraid they may be curious that the package is so light.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2008
- Messages
- 615
I hate hearing about someone doing this to Paul. He is really a good guy. Great prices, doesn't mind answering a question, and is always pretty quick at getting back to people. Who would pull such a dirty rat move. I posted this somewhere else but just bringing it to those who aren't on that board. I totally agree though that bees being shipped is worse any day than a T.
Another member was popped by Fed Ex while the board was down but hopefully he will log in and tell about it. I guess the only one who wants our business that we are "supposed" to use is Delta Dash but it is expensive. A friend called ship my reptile and they said "No. But there are ways around it." to T's. This really stinks. I mean I have a male that was out on loan with 2 great people and have a male myself form someone. I was hoping to do some trades if I get some slings out of all this and toss out a couple freebies to some friends wanting to get their feet wet.
Someone suggested doing a petition but I am unsure of how to do that. I will defiantly sign it though if anyone has one out already. I could if I knew what to do but I have no idea where to start. I did forward the letter Ken made to local, state, and federal officials though. I haven't heard back from anyone yet. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=164658
This is the last time, from what I can pull up, that some challenged the post office. It was 30 years ago in 1980. I also couldn't find any case laws. Too many illegal import cases came up. Might be cool if we could get someone with knowledge over T's, venom, and all to challenge it again. Having an average expense cost would be hard to get but being able to show how much they would be out if the entire pet trade stop using them and how much we rally spend through USPS might help sway them. Worst they can do is say no in final ruling again. Warning though their are some pretty weak and lame statements from the defense that kept from making the change but hey that was 30 years ago. http://www.usps.com/judicial/1980deci/7-135.htm
This is the postal code for those who don't know. 8.0 and 9.0 refers to us. http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm
Another member was popped by Fed Ex while the board was down but hopefully he will log in and tell about it. I guess the only one who wants our business that we are "supposed" to use is Delta Dash but it is expensive.
A friend called ship my reptile and they said "No. But there are ways around it." to T's. This really stinks. I mean I have a male that was out on loan with 2 great people and have a male myself form someone. I was hoping to do some trades if I get some slings out of all this and toss out a couple freebies to some friends wanting to get their feet wet.Someone suggested doing a petition but I am unsure of how to do that. I will defiantly sign it though if anyone has one out already. I could if I knew what to do but I have no idea where to start. I did forward the letter Ken made to local, state, and federal officials though. I haven't heard back from anyone yet. http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=164658
This is the last time, from what I can pull up, that some challenged the post office. It was 30 years ago in 1980. I also couldn't find any case laws. Too many illegal import cases came up. Might be cool if we could get someone with knowledge over T's, venom, and all to challenge it again. Having an average expense cost would be hard to get but being able to show how much they would be out if the entire pet trade stop using them and how much we rally spend through USPS might help sway them. Worst they can do is say no in final ruling again. Warning though their are some pretty weak and lame statements from the defense that kept from making the change but hey that was 30 years ago. http://www.usps.com/judicial/1980deci/7-135.htm
This is the postal code for those who don't know. 8.0 and 9.0 refers to us. http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm
TarantulaFanBoy
Arachnopeon
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2009
- Messages
- 29
LOL what is the Freakin Prosecutor going to say. "This man is shipping spiders .... in the .... in the .... the MAIL! YOUR HONOR! Clearly by the evidence seen in this courtroom he is a DANGER to society. He should be given capitol Punishment and Executed Immediately."
Hahahaha too funny!
I've been reading this thread and if what I'm reading is correct spiders cannot be mailed, but far more dangerous and venomous creatures can be, not to mention firearms, for God's sake. Bees I can understand - it's all about money. Also, if it's a felony, then it must be a law on the books, and not just some USPS company policy.
Paul's right - don't violate the law, work to change it.
Here's what we do -
1) find out who created this law and who voted for it and why -
2) find out which legislator(s) are sympathetic to tarantula keeping (and better still, find out which legislator(s) ARE tarantula keepers) -
3) somebody with some legal smarts compose a well-reasoned letter to these legislators outlining why disciminating against spiders makes little sense, given what the law does allow to be shipped by mail or other ground transportation. And be sure to play the "economy card": tarantula-keeping is a lucrative business (just read all the "I'm a compulsive arachnoholic" threads!) and this is no time to be messing with the (angry) small-business owner and his/her customers.
4) send the letter, or deliver it personally, to the legislator(s) asking that they do what they can to reverse this senseless law
5) submit the letter online so that each of us (and there are a LOT of us) can print the letter, sign it, and either mail, fax or personally deliver the letter ourselves.
Legislators are not insensitive to an onslaught of voter concern, so if we feel strongly enough about this, we can make a difference.
Paul's right - don't violate the law, work to change it.
Here's what we do -
1) find out who created this law and who voted for it and why -
2) find out which legislator(s) are sympathetic to tarantula keeping (and better still, find out which legislator(s) ARE tarantula keepers) -
3) somebody with some legal smarts compose a well-reasoned letter to these legislators outlining why disciminating against spiders makes little sense, given what the law does allow to be shipped by mail or other ground transportation. And be sure to play the "economy card": tarantula-keeping is a lucrative business (just read all the "I'm a compulsive arachnoholic" threads!) and this is no time to be messing with the (angry) small-business owner and his/her customers.
4) send the letter, or deliver it personally, to the legislator(s) asking that they do what they can to reverse this senseless law
5) submit the letter online so that each of us (and there are a LOT of us) can print the letter, sign it, and either mail, fax or personally deliver the letter ourselves.
Legislators are not insensitive to an onslaught of voter concern, so if we feel strongly enough about this, we can make a difference.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2008
- Messages
- 63
HERE IS THE LETTER
LETTER TO USPS OFFICIALS OR REPRESENTATIVES & SENATORS TO ENCOURAGE REVISION OF USPS DOMESTIC “MAILABILITY” REGULATIONS REGARDING THE SHIPPING OF HARMLESS TARANTULAS
[Date]
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[Your City, State, Zip]
[Your Email]
[Your Phone]
The Honorable [NAME OF OFFICIAL]
[House of Representatives] [or United States Senate]
[Postal address of USPS Headquarter; Room Number and Office Building of Rep or Senator]
Washington, D.C. 20515 (for House) or 20510 (for Senate)
Your reps are found here
http://www.house.gov/
Or/both
Mailing Standards
United States Postal Service
475 L'Enfant Plaza SW
Washington, DC 20260-2200
Re: Proposal to redefine and allow the shipping of tarantulas, including theraphosid spiders and other harmless pet arthropods and similar animals used for research in general from section 8.5 (Harmful Matter—General), of the USPS Domestic Mail Manual currently categorized as “harmful” in section: 601 Mailability, part “b”.
Dear Sir(s):
I’d like to propose slight changes or at least some consideration thereof regarding the “mailability” of tarantulas in USPS regulations. In short (and upon request I can provide citations, references and scientific literature supportive that) tarantulas are not harmful, nor medically significant to people. In a general sense, tarantulas (as per USPS guidelines and biological definition) are initially covered as “mailable” under the category “small, harmless cold-blooded animal”.
However, current USPS guidelines section 8.5 item “b” further defines tarantulas as not safe to ship, or as they word it, harmful, quoted as follows:
“Harmful Matter—General
Except as provided in this document, any article, composition, or material is nonmailable if it can kill or injure another or injure the mail or other property. Harmful matter includes, but is not limited to:
a. All types and classes of poisons, including controlled substances.
b. All poisonous animals except scorpions mailed for medical research purposes or for the manufacture of antivenom; all poisonous insects; all poisonous reptiles; and all types of snakes, turtles, and spiders.
c. All disease germs or scabs.
d. All explosives, flammable material, infernal machines, and mechanical, chemical, or other devices or compositions that may ignite or explode.”
Item “b”, although not technically accurate excludes tarantulas from USPS shipping because they are “poisonous” in the same sense we refer to such animals that are “venomous”. Semantics aside, tarantula venom is not considered harmful to humans and thus any live tarantula should be considered a "harmless arthropod".
It should be noted here that the shipping of scorpions and bees are allowed under regulations for specific reasons. Despite any exceptions made by USPS to allow their shipping, bees and scorpions are certainly medically significant to humans, a fact no one can dispute. Scorpions and bees cause significant recorded numbers of human deaths annually. There are no recorded human deaths attributed to the bite of a tarantula.
It may be noted here that tarantula venom is currently the subject of a wide variety of scientific research. Live specimens are needed at research centers. Recent studies reveal that peptides in the venom may provide the key to discovering long-range cures or treatments for MS and heart disease in humans. Tarantula venom varies widely in chemical composition and their effects on people. Other than routine concerns over a small puncture wound, bite symptoms range from none to mild swelling and pain depending upon the individual. The most important distinction for tarantulas is they do not cause human deaths. Scorpion and bee stings are accountable for many deaths, thus are more worthy of special handling procedures and earning the label “hazardous”.
Another point to consider in these troubled economic times is the exotic pet trade. Although a small percentage of pet sales overall, the tarantula hobby as we know it depends on the ability of the pet trade and our favorite exotic animal dealers to ship animals to us safely and inexpensively on demand. Those of us participating in arthropod breeding projects, educational endeavors, and private research rely upon the postal system to ship male and female specimens of rare species. If there were no means to transport our animals safely and cheaply around the country the entire infrastructure of the hobby would collapse, bringing down small business owners as well. So, a part of this proposal to change existing regulations in favor of shipping tarantulas is meant to ensure that small businesses can continue to operate, educational/research projects can proceed, and captive breeding of livestock may continue unobstructed as well.
Most Sincerely,
[INSERT YOUR NAME BELOW SIGNATURE]
LETTER TO USPS OFFICIALS OR REPRESENTATIVES & SENATORS TO ENCOURAGE REVISION OF USPS DOMESTIC “MAILABILITY” REGULATIONS REGARDING THE SHIPPING OF HARMLESS TARANTULAS
[Date]
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[Your City, State, Zip]
[Your Email]
[Your Phone]
The Honorable [NAME OF OFFICIAL]
[House of Representatives] [or United States Senate]
[Postal address of USPS Headquarter; Room Number and Office Building of Rep or Senator]
Washington, D.C. 20515 (for House) or 20510 (for Senate)
Your reps are found here
http://www.house.gov/
Or/both
Mailing Standards
United States Postal Service
475 L'Enfant Plaza SW
Washington, DC 20260-2200
Re: Proposal to redefine and allow the shipping of tarantulas, including theraphosid spiders and other harmless pet arthropods and similar animals used for research in general from section 8.5 (Harmful Matter—General), of the USPS Domestic Mail Manual currently categorized as “harmful” in section: 601 Mailability, part “b”.
Dear Sir(s):
I’d like to propose slight changes or at least some consideration thereof regarding the “mailability” of tarantulas in USPS regulations. In short (and upon request I can provide citations, references and scientific literature supportive that) tarantulas are not harmful, nor medically significant to people. In a general sense, tarantulas (as per USPS guidelines and biological definition) are initially covered as “mailable” under the category “small, harmless cold-blooded animal”.
However, current USPS guidelines section 8.5 item “b” further defines tarantulas as not safe to ship, or as they word it, harmful, quoted as follows:
“Harmful Matter—General
Except as provided in this document, any article, composition, or material is nonmailable if it can kill or injure another or injure the mail or other property. Harmful matter includes, but is not limited to:
a. All types and classes of poisons, including controlled substances.
b. All poisonous animals except scorpions mailed for medical research purposes or for the manufacture of antivenom; all poisonous insects; all poisonous reptiles; and all types of snakes, turtles, and spiders.
c. All disease germs or scabs.
d. All explosives, flammable material, infernal machines, and mechanical, chemical, or other devices or compositions that may ignite or explode.”
Item “b”, although not technically accurate excludes tarantulas from USPS shipping because they are “poisonous” in the same sense we refer to such animals that are “venomous”. Semantics aside, tarantula venom is not considered harmful to humans and thus any live tarantula should be considered a "harmless arthropod".
It should be noted here that the shipping of scorpions and bees are allowed under regulations for specific reasons. Despite any exceptions made by USPS to allow their shipping, bees and scorpions are certainly medically significant to humans, a fact no one can dispute. Scorpions and bees cause significant recorded numbers of human deaths annually. There are no recorded human deaths attributed to the bite of a tarantula.
It may be noted here that tarantula venom is currently the subject of a wide variety of scientific research. Live specimens are needed at research centers. Recent studies reveal that peptides in the venom may provide the key to discovering long-range cures or treatments for MS and heart disease in humans. Tarantula venom varies widely in chemical composition and their effects on people. Other than routine concerns over a small puncture wound, bite symptoms range from none to mild swelling and pain depending upon the individual. The most important distinction for tarantulas is they do not cause human deaths. Scorpion and bee stings are accountable for many deaths, thus are more worthy of special handling procedures and earning the label “hazardous”.
Another point to consider in these troubled economic times is the exotic pet trade. Although a small percentage of pet sales overall, the tarantula hobby as we know it depends on the ability of the pet trade and our favorite exotic animal dealers to ship animals to us safely and inexpensively on demand. Those of us participating in arthropod breeding projects, educational endeavors, and private research rely upon the postal system to ship male and female specimens of rare species. If there were no means to transport our animals safely and cheaply around the country the entire infrastructure of the hobby would collapse, bringing down small business owners as well. So, a part of this proposal to change existing regulations in favor of shipping tarantulas is meant to ensure that small businesses can continue to operate, educational/research projects can proceed, and captive breeding of livestock may continue unobstructed as well.
Most Sincerely,
[INSERT YOUR NAME BELOW SIGNATURE]
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2008
- Messages
- 614
What I would like to know, is what do local pet stores use to acquire their tarantulas? Or if they get them from a local shipper, where do THEY get theirs from??
What about large-scale businesses online like Carolina biological supply (which carries T's) or LLL reptile? What do they use to ship legally?
What about large-scale businesses online like Carolina biological supply (which carries T's) or LLL reptile? What do they use to ship legally?