Have you peacefully protested yet?

[GartenSpinnen]

Do people honestly think protesting or signing petitions will do anything? I mean, yea, *supposedly* according to what this country is based on it "should" but when exactly does that happen? If its in the
"""good nature""""
of politicians or governments then it will be passed either way. Just do it anyways. As long as enough people do not comply they will get tired of enforcing it.
Cheers

 

[Elytra and Antenna]

In 1996 a lot of good people put effort into fighting a new bill that would allow the Ag department to outlaw exotic mantids, tarantulas and various inverts that have no effect on agriculture by creating a new classification called "secondary plant pests" -anything that could eat a pollinator or pest predators which is anything. They just waited and snuck it in a few years later in 2000 with some other crap when nobody was looking and Clinton signed it.

 

[barabootom]

If this passes the government would have no problem enforcing it. They would attach huge financial penalties and start picking on obvious targets to scare everyone else away form taking the risk. What would happen if you were afraid to make a trade by email? Or couldn't go to swaps? Or couldn't tell anyone you were keeping invertebrates? This bill is the first step in...you can only have the pet the government picks for you. We had a bad storm a month ago and there was lots of flooding and road damage. A friend drove past a road closed sign to visit and was stopped by the police. They gave him a $160 fine for not obeying the road closed sign. I didn't even know they could do that, but it turns out they can in Wisconsin. They usually don't but they can. There are lots of laws on the books that aren't enforced, but watch out. They'll pass a bill like this and slowly enforce it and expand it until they can shrink the hobby to the point of eliminating it with only a whimper. And the majority of people will think its great. You can fight these kinds of bills now or roll-over later.

 

[barabootom]

Here's the email I sent. Did you send your's yet?

You recently co-sponsored HR 6311. This bill is very poorly written and opens the door to flawed governmental regulation. It is far too broad in it's scope. I'm ashamed that someone from Wisconsin would think this bill has merit in it's current form. All the greatest foreign invasive threats (mostly insects and plant diseases) were introduced in shipping containers and large scale imports that were already supposedly inspected by US officials. Please get on with something more important than to co-sponsor bills like this that cause regulation nightmares and ultimately waste money. My opinion, take your name off as co-sponsor. Thank you.

 

[Mister Internet]

Everyone here has had at least a high school level civics course, right?

This bill is IN COMMITTEE... your input, unless your senator/reps happen to be on the committee reviewing the bill, means dinkus at this point. This bill is MILES away from even seeing the light of day on the floor of the House. The vast majority of bills that are "introduced" die in committee, and aren't really worth our time or effort to fight, as they are moot. Your congressmen are certainly not going to waste time considering their opinion on a bill that isn't out of committee yet.

Legislators get bored, or they have interns or assistants who come up with funny ideas for new laws, so they have to fill their free time with something. Committees are there to kill the stupid ones before they waste the House's time voting... this one will die in committee, as it should.

 

[ThomasH]

Everyone here has had at least a high school level civics course, right?

This bill is IN COMMITTEE... your input, unless your senator/reps happen to be on the committee reviewing the bill, means dinkus at this point. This bill is MILES away from even seeing the light of day on the floor of the House. The vast majority of bills that are "introduced" die in committee, and aren't really worth our time or effort to fight, as they are moot. Your congressmen are certainly not going to waste time considering their opinion on a bill that isn't out of committee yet.

Legislators get bored, or they have interns or assistants who come up with funny ideas for new laws, so they have to fill their free time with something. Committees are there to kill the stupid ones before they waste the House's time voting... this one will die in committee, as it should.

I hope you're right but this bill is just too scary for me not to take seriously. With all the fear mongering of exotics there is a huge chance that they'll see the opportunity to regulate.
TBH

 

[crpy]

Everyone here has had at least a high school level civics course, right?

This bill is IN COMMITTEE... your input, unless your senator/reps happen to be on the committee reviewing the bill, means dinkus at this point. This bill is MILES away from even seeing the light of day on the floor of the House. The vast majority of bills that are "introduced" die in committee, and aren't really worth our time or effort to fight, as they are moot. Your congressmen are certainly not going to waste time considering their opinion on a bill that isn't out of committee yet.

Legislators get bored, or they have interns or assistants who come up with funny ideas for new laws, so they have to fill their free time with something. Committees are there to kill the stupid ones before they waste the House's time voting... this one will die in committee, as it should.

This is true, However, it is good to stay observant of these things and have conversations about them, no matter how stupid these bills are, that may be a good thing. If we stay in sleepy time mode things come in under the radar. Especially the way politics is today, imo

 

[Scott C.]

....It needs to shrink but when is the last time the gov decided to do that in a way that made a big difference....

There's the problem right there.

 

[ThomasH]

I don't see America being a free country without a serious civil war in the next century or two. We lose a right everyday, most of which we don't even realize we've lost because the government chose not to inform us.

 

[GartenSpinnen]

I don't see America being a free country without a serious civil war in the next century or two. We lose a right everyday, most of which we don't even realize we've lost because the government chose not to inform us.

Agreed to some point. Civil war? No. Drastic actions to put the government in its place? Yes. I doubt that will ever happen though. And our country is so screwed up anymore that the grand majority believe everything is gravy and worry little until they cant afford there Gucci bag, or latte at Starbucks.... mmm.... latte...

Ignorance is bliss, thankfully im full of it...

Cheers

 

[Mister Internet]

I hope you're right but this bill is just too scary for me not to take seriously. With all the fear mongering of exotics there is a huge chance that they'll see the opportunity to regulate.
TBH

This is true, However, it is good to stay observant of these things and have conversations about them, no matter how stupid these bills are, that may be a good thing. If we stay in sleepy time mode things come in under the radar. Especially the way politics is today, imo

I know I know... I'm certinaly a fan of being aware of what's going on. I just hate it that every 19 and younger thinks that "social action" involves starting a stupid online petition that has the teeth of an amoeba and the legal traction of eugenics. There once was a time when people had to actually DO and THINK... the Internet has made this new generation really stupid and lazy when it comes to "making a difference". To make matters worse, people my age are starting to adopt this mindset as well, rather than eradication through education of our younger protoges.

Simply put, I was merely tring to help people to see that not everything that sound bad, looks bad, or has an online petition associated with it is necessarily worth two squirts. It helps to think critically about where best to apply our time and energies... signing an online petition or sending a congressman an email he's never going to read about a bill that's still in committee are two things that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to Worthless.

Now, if this thing manages to make it to the floor of the House, or the language gets absorbed into another, more urgent bill, then we've got something to worry about.

Sorry, I will let people go back to having their delusions of "making a difference" if it makes everyone feel better. By the way, it's "revolution", not "civil war".

 

[Tleilaxu]

Wow is this even worth fighting? Can we even do anything? Anyways I hope this fails. utterly.

 

[ThomasH]

I know I know... I'm certinaly a fan of being aware of what's going on. I just hate it that every 19 and younger thinks that "social action" involves starting a stupid online petition that has the teeth of an amoeba and the legal traction of eugenics. There once was a time when people had to actually DO and THINK... the Internet has made this new generation really stupid and lazy when it comes to "making a difference". To make matters worse, people my age are starting to adopt this mindset as well, rather than eradication through education of our younger protoges.

Simply put, I was merely tring to help people to see that not everything that sound bad, looks bad, or has an online petition associated with it is necessarily worth two squirts. It helps to think critically about where best to apply our time and energies... signing an online petition or sending a congressman an email he's never going to read about a bill that's still in committee are two things that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to Worthless.

Now, if this thing manages to make it to the floor of the House, or the language gets absorbed into another, more urgent bill, then we've got something to worry about.

Sorry, I will let people go back to having their delusions of "making a difference" if it makes everyone feel better. By the way, it's "revolution", not "civil war".

What? E-mailing someone is wrothless? BS! They have assistants that spend all day reading their e-mails and letters. If someone opposed them they would challenge it. I agree the petitions are worthless though. It would only be effective if you got over half of America to sign it. That is "if" there was a way to prove who really signed it over the internet. Alright buddy, how are you making a difference? You are just going to sit and do nothing? When we have "something to worry about" what's going to be your plan of action? You know what? All you ever do is go around spreading the hate and telling everyone that they're wrong, never adding any input of what to do. Its all a lot easier to say over the internet, I seriously doubt you would say any of that to my face. Some adults on the internet treat kids like crap thinking you are so much better, like age gave you all "the magical knowledge power over every aspect faced today in the world" but every time somone under 18 takes the same attitude they are called arrogant.
TBH

 

[barabootom]

I know I know... I'm certinaly a fan of being aware of what's going on. I just hate it that every 19 and younger thinks that "social action" involves starting a stupid online petition that has the teeth of an amoeba and the legal traction of eugenics. There once was a time when people had to actually DO and THINK... the Internet has made this new generation really stupid and lazy when it comes to "making a difference". To make matters worse, people my age are starting to adopt this mindset as well, rather than eradication through education of our younger protoges.

Simply put, I was merely tring to help people to see that not everything that sound bad, looks bad, or has an online petition associated with it is necessarily worth two squirts. It helps to think critically about where best to apply our time and energies... signing an online petition or sending a congressman an email he's never going to read about a bill that's still in committee are two things that are a 12 on a scale of 1 to Worthless.

Now, if this thing manages to make it to the floor of the House, or the language gets absorbed into another, more urgent bill, then we've got something to worry about.

Sorry, I will let people go back to having their delusions of "making a difference" if it makes everyone feel better. By the way, it's "revolution", not "civil war".

I disagree with you completely. I personally don't see any value to an on-line petetion, but emailing your congressman does have an impact. I've done it at least a dozen times and have always received a response. At least from the Wisconsin reps. Senator Feingold even wrote a long personal letter on my behalf to the US Embassy in Mexico City when I was trying to get my rich brother-in-law attorney a visa to come and visit. I think, in the very least, the messages get tallied. 100 emails against, go ahead, nobody cares. 10,000 emails against, I'd better back off cause I'm pissing off my constituants. I can almost guarantee I'll get a response from the Wisconsin rep who co-sponsored the bill. I'll post it when I do. It may be a email form letter but my emailing will get a response. And it only took me 3 minutes. I'm not going to sit back and empower these crazy congresspeople by convincing myself there is nothing I can do. And even if it is only in commitee, who cares. Send a strong message now and it won't reappear next month with a new name.

 

[Scott C.]

....Sorry, I will let people go back to having their delusions of "making a difference" if it makes everyone feel better.

I'd bet you'd do better with the "educate" thing, than false apologies.... Not that it's your job, or anything.

..... Some adults on the internet treat kids like crap thinking you are so much better, like age gave you all "the magical knowledge power over every aspect faced today in the world" but every time somone under 18 takes the same attitude they are called arrogant.
TBH

Perhaps it is because so many *sound* arrogant due either arrogance, a lack of communication skills, or just outright lack of courtesy..... Just a thought.

 

[Mister Internet]

What? E-mailing someone is wrothless? BS! They have assistants that spend all day reading their e-mails and letters. If someone opposed them they would challenge it.

I said, SPECIFICALLY, an email "about a bill that's still in committee". Meaning NON-ACTIONABLE. I did not say, as a blanket statement, that emailing congressmen is worthless. Wait until there's something to vote on, that was my only point.

I agree the petitions are worthless though. It would only be effective if you got over half of America to sign it. That is "if" there was a way to prove who really signed it over the internet.

Well, most of them aren't national in scope... heck, I've done door to door petitioning for local issues that would have carried with as little as 150 votes either way back home growing up. Sometimes, it's not about the numbers. But yes, generally, online petitions are impossible validate for residence and constituency reasons, and as such aren't really worth much more than the paper they are printed on.

Alright buddy, how are you making a difference? You are just going to sit and do nothing? When we have "something to worry about" what's going to be your plan of action?

When we have something to worry about, I'll write, call, and email my congressmen like everyone else.

Of course, my idea of what really demands my effort in "making a difference" centers around people far more than animals anyway... I spend my energy and volunteer time helping people first, and animals secondarily. I won't bore you with the details of my trip to New Orleans last summer with a group of local high school kids for a week. I guess you don't need to hear about assisting in a $40,000 fundraising effort for said community youth organization. There was that little stint in downtown Chicago this past April with "Rebuild Chicago" where I helped remodel a bathroom for a wonderful old woman who couldn't afford it.

Of course, if you're talking about animals, specifically, I purchase a fishing license every year to contribute to IL conservation. We are heavy supporters of our local Arboretum to the tune of $250 a year which partly supports local wildlife. Not sure if that's the kind of thing you meant.

I could bore you with a lot of stories like this, but I absolutely hate talking about myself... I only give out specifics when impertinence demands it.

You know what? All you ever do is go around spreading the hate and telling everyone that they're wrong, never adding any input of what to do. Its all a lot easier to say over the internet, I seriously doubt you would say any of that to my face.

You've been here for what, 5 months? Ask ANYONE who's been here a year or longer, and see if they share your opinion. Also, ask yourself if you might often times bring this reaction because of the brash, ill-informed way you seem to prefer to share your opinions. I don't "spread hate" ... heh, talk to the people on here who I have most strongly disagreed with over the years, and they will tell you that I have never once told them anything remotely close to "I hate you". I'm not about hate, I'm about rational, clear thinking, and HONESTY. And I would absolutely say it to your face... I work with borderline "at risk" high schoolers, and tell them the TRUTH to their face about their poor choices all the time. I'm absolutely unfazed by the prospect of telling someone the truth.

Some adults on the internet treat kids like crap thinking you are so much better, like age gave you all "the magical knowledge power over every aspect faced today in the world" but every time somone under 18 takes the same attitude they are called arrogant.
TBH

I have more life experience than you, absolutely. I'm not saying I'm SMARTER than you... you could have an IQ of 180 for all I know and might beat me in chess blindfolded. But, I do know far, FAR more about how the world works than you. I know it sucks when someone has to tell you have an incorrect perspective on the world, but sometimes its necessary. I'm not always right... you can find dozens of instances on AB where I've gracefully apologized or retracted statements made in error.

You know what, I just took the liberty as an Admin of checking your age... I need to apologize to you and the AB readers by saying that I've been engaging you over your head. I didn't realize how tender your years are. I am sorry if I've given you the impression that I don't want you here, or that your input isn't welcomed. Just be gracious when someone is trying to show you correct information about how the world works... it's hard to see at your age, but it isn't incomprehensible by any stretch.

 

[ThomasH]

I said, SPECIFICALLY, an email "about a bill that's still in committee". Meaning NON-ACTIONABLE. I did not say, as a blanket statement, that emailing congressmen is worthless. Wait until there's something to vote on, that was my only point.

Does it matter if its in committee? Not much to me, not as high urgency but we still can e-mail to get them to cut off their sponsorship of the bill. I don't see where that's a bad or worthless thing.

 

[ThomasH]

You've been here for what, 5 months? Ask ANYONE who's been here a year or longer, and see if they share your opinion. Also, ask yourself if you might often times bring this reaction because of the brash, ill-informed way you seem to prefer to share your opinions. I don't "spread hate" ... heh, talk to the people on here who I have most strongly disagreed with over the years, and they will tell you that I have never once told them anything remotely close to "I hate you". I'm not about hate, I'm about rational, clear thinking, and HONESTY. And I would absolutely say it to your face... I work with borderline "at risk" high schoolers, and tell them the TRUTH to their face about their poor choices all the time. I'm absolutely unfazed by the prospect of telling someone the truth.

I'm not talking about flat out saying "I hate you." I'm talking about all the negativity you've spread over the years. I don't recall you ever being positive about anything.

 

[ThomasH]

I have more life experience than you, absolutely. I'm not saying I'm SMARTER than you... you could have an IQ of 180 for all I know and might beat me in chess blindfolded. But, I do know far, FAR more about how the world works than you. I know it sucks when someone has to tell you have an incorrect perspective on the world, but sometimes its necessary. I'm not always right... you can find dozens of instances on AB where I've gracefully apologized or retracted statements made in error.

You know what, I just took the liberty as an Admin of checking your age... I need to apologize to you and the AB readers by saying that I've been engaging you over your head. I didn't realize how tender your years are. I am sorry if I've given you the impression that I don't want you here, or that your input isn't welcomed. Just be gracious when someone is trying to show you correct information about how the world works... it's hard to see at your age, but it isn't incomprehensible by any stretch.

Whatever. That's just another cheap shot some adults use over minors. I know how the world works just fine, thank you.
TBH

 

[Mister Internet]

I disagree with you completely.

<snip>

And even if it is only in commitee, who cares. Send a strong message now and it won't reappear next month with a new name.

Look man, I'm on your side here... The problem inherent in trying to put this stuff on congresspersons' radar before it's on the floor is that the bill name, number, or sponsors may have changed by the time the language actually makes it to the floor. If H.R. 6311 dies in committee, then my congressman's note to "vote against H.R. 6311" will be useless... the sponsors could sneak it as a referendum into another bill that he might have been planning on supporting. That's all I'm saying... yes, keep our ears perked. But until there's actually a bill to vote on, it would be a shame if we all got riled and contacted them referencing what is quite likely not the final form of the legislation. Because then, when it does come up in a different form, with different sponsors, or in a different bill altogether, no one will care.

Anyhoo, I'm doing more harm than good trying to make an inconsequential point...