Handling, how?!

[Hakuna]

I don’t think people will have any severe criticisms someone who decides to do whatever they want with orchids they grew/bought themselves though, unless it’s an extraordinarily rare orchid. I don’t think choosing to handle vs. not handle tarantulas has ever contributed to a shortage of specimens.

There are places where tarantulas are common as dirt and people kill them on sight without a second thought, the same attitude many people who keep tarantulas still have towards cockroaches and flies in their home. It’s all relative and no amount of value placed on certain organisms by members of a niche hobby makes anything sacred.

You clearly have no respect for your tarantula, as well as probably any creature and treat it as expendable....that’s the problem.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

I don't handle because I'm not a massive bellend who likes deliberately putting my animals at unnecessary risk of harm for my own entertainment.

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

Sorry, i couldnt disagree more.

Risks shouldnt be part of education....known risks especially.

Handling for education is the opposite of educational.

I compare it to teaching a new driver how to operate a car by teaching burnouts and doughnuts. Like those acts, handling both has NO redeeming qualities and in fact, serves only to misrepresent the animal to new people....its a big part of why we have to answer the question "do you handle them" to pretty much every single person we meet outside the hobby...its also why we see handling maintain its popularity despite having ZERO redeeming qualities.

Teach people by handling, and you dont teach them anything other than "handling is fun and ok". Venomous animals should be treated with respect, not fondled like hamsters.

If i want to educate someone about fish, raptors, venomous snakes, loins, gorillas, etc., i can do it just fine without a handling demo....so why on earth does it make sense or seem so necessary with regards to ts?? Its not.

Handling does NOT in any way shape or form help the educational process....hell, ive never once handled for fun or education, yet im still pretty well educated on ts.....ive never once educated by handling, yet that doesnt mean i havent been able to or even had a hard time educating others properly about them.

Handling demos breed the mindset handling is ok, something the hobby as a whole does NOT and will never benefit from...this thread and the hundreds like it are perfect examples.

New person educated by handling gets a t, and literally the first thing on their minds is learning how to handle, they reach out to find a community with completely different values contradicting the handling demos they had been part of. Many educated like this come to the hobby with the misconception that not only is handling ok, but that all, or most keepers are handling them, which just isnt true.

No disrespect to those doing education demos, but those demos are literally the bane of the hobby....and its the single biggest mindset that needs to change for most new keepers....handling demos IMO do nothing but set the hobby back and prevent it from moving forward to a more positive, educated place.

We shouldnt do handling demos with ts for the same reason we dont do it with fish....because it gives the wrong impression (mis-education) to the individuals watching about the animal, its care and responsible behavior with owning that animal.

People educated by methods other than handling, generally speaking, recieve the far superior education.

Thanks for expanding on your response to my post. I think in large part I agree with you, but I also see some value to limited handling in an educational setting as a fear-reducer. I certainly don't think it's necessary for education, but I also don't find it completely abhorrent. I certainly wouldn't be bringing my beloved pets into a classroom for this purpose, though

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

You clearly have no respect for your tarantula, as well as probably any creature and treat it as expendable....that’s the problem.

And if you have any tarantulas, you treat living creatures as expendable by necessity.

I don’t actually treat my tarantulas as expendable, because they have value to me... despite the argument I’m making in this thread, I don’t even handle my tarantulas beyond very occasionally removing them from their enclosure to take better photos of them. But I’m not kidding myself into thinking I have some kind of deep respect for them when keeping them requires me to show no respect for the things they prey on.

It’s all fine and dandy to warn about the dangers of and recommend against handling tarantulas, but I find making moral judgements about someone deciding what they want to do with their own bugs laughable. I get that tarantulas hobbyists don’t care about feeders, but if you’re entitled not to care about feeders I fail to see why everyone else has to meet the arbitrary standard of respect you show for your spiders.

Condemning handling defensive/highly venomous species because it could lead to incidents that harm the hobby overall is a whole other can of worms and a totally valid perspective imo, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

 

[Frogdaddy]

But I’m not kidding myself into thinking I have some kind of deep respect for them when keeping them requires me to show no respect for the things they prey on..

Since you're iffy about respect for your Ts and have such a moral dilemma feeding live foods to your T's to keep them alive and unnecessary handling which may harm them, feel free to get in touch with me regarding shipping me your hungry, manhandled specimens.
That's
@Frogdaddy
994 Jones St...

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

Since you're iffy about respect for your Ts and have such a moral dilemma feeding live foods to your T's to keep them alive and unnecessary handling which may harm them, feel free to get in touch with me regarding shipping me your hungry, manhandled specimens.
That's
@Frogdaddy
994 Jones St...

See, here’s the thing though. The T’s don’t care that I don’t have enough “respect” for them. I give them the same care as anyone else so they can live out their natural behaviors, I doubt they’re still aware of the few times they’ve been removed from their enclosure for photos, and they have no idea that other keepers are so much more benevolent for holding them in higher moral regard.

At this point we’re just going in circles. I don’t think casually handling tarantulas is necessarily wise if you want to ensure their safety. But don’t think it’s nearly as risky as it’s made out to be if you take basic precautions like keeping the spider at ground level, and I reject the notion that it’s inherently a moral failing on the part of the keeper when nothing else about keeping tarantulas shows any sign of adhering to similar ethics.

 

[cold blood]

no owner gives a rats backside to the feeders we keep.

But in fact t keepers do typically give feeder colonies the same level of top care that they do their ts right up till they are fed.

 

[Frogdaddy]

See, here’s the thing though. The T’s don’t care that I don’t have enough “respect” for them.

The T you don't respect is the T that gets harmed or harms you.

Just curious, if you have such an indifferent attitude, why do you keep them?

 

[mantisfan101]

They’re like fish, you don’t take fish out of the water or touch them- that could kill them. Likewise you don’t pick up and handle your ts, you could drop it and give it a slow, agonizing death. Once you get over the whole “i want to handle it” mentality they become much ore fascinating

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

I keep them because they look beautiful and their behaviors are interesting to watch. It’s possible simultaneously find things interesting and appreciate them and be indifferent to the stringent ethics you propose for tarantulas, I think my feeder roach colony is almost as interesting to watch as my T’s.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

they’ve been removed from their enclosure for photos

I have a doubt here, I'm quoting you but I'm asking everyone.

Do they really need to be removed of their enclosure to be photographed? And if so, do we really have to grab them with our hands?

Here's the reason I'm asking:
Some of you may noticed I like to take pictures of my tarantulas (and other animals too). Besides mature males, I rarely removed them from their enclosure to make a pic. The ones you've seen outside of their enclosures, were taken when I was rehousing them.

That all said, I also think they shouldn't be handled. Unless in extreme necessity and with proper care.

As for the ethics, I take good care about my roaches, as I take good care about their vegetables too.

 

[basin79]

I have a doubt here, I'm quoting you but I'm asking everyone.

Do they really need to be removed of their enclosure to be photographed? And if so, do we really have to grab them with our hands?

Here's the reason I'm asking:
Some of you may noticed I like to take pictures of my tarantulas (and other animals too). Besides mature males, I rarely removed them from their enclosure to make a pic. The ones you've seen outside of their enclosures, were taken when I was rehousing them.

That all said, I also think they shouldn't be handled. Unless in extreme necessity and with proper care.

As for the ethics, I take good care about my roaches, as I take good care about their vegetables too.

Same here. I don't get the angles I'd like with them being in their enclosures but would sooner get pics like I do than stress the tarantulas taking them out of their enclosures just for the "perfect" shot.

 

[Kitara]

Guess there's not much more to say lol

I guess there must be because you are only post #21 of 72.

 

[Olan]

I have a doubt here, I'm quoting you but I'm asking everyone.

Do they really need to be removed of their enclosure to be photographed? And if so, do we really have to grab them with our hands?

Here's the reason I'm asking:
Some of you may noticed I like to take pictures of my tarantulas (and other animals too). Besides mature males, I rarely removed them from their enclosure to make a pic. The ones you've seen outside of their enclosures, were taken when I was rehousing them.

That all said, I also think they shouldn't be handled. Unless in extreme necessity and with proper care.

As for the ethics, I take good care about my roaches, as I take good care about their vegetables too.

I never take them out of their enclosures for pics.
There’s plenty of opportunity for good pics without disturbing them:

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

some of mine are in enclosures that have somewhat opaque sides, so it’s not always possible to get pics from different angles inside the enclosure.

I’m not remotely convinced that prodding a slow moving NW tarantula onto my hand at ground level carries much more risk than prodding it into a cup and onto the ground. If anything, I bet people who rely on catch cups and are too afraid to actually touch the spider are more likely to <edit> up if it unexpectedly crawls out of the cup and up their arm or something.

 

[Matt Man]

I treat my feeders well.....until I manually crush their heads before giving them to my Ts.

 

[basin79]

some of mine are in enclosures that have somewhat opaque sides, so it’s not always possible to get pics from different angles inside the enclosure.

The majority of my tarantulas are housed like that. Still, I'd sooner be limited in the shots I can get rather than remove the tarantula from familiar surroundings just for a pic.

I will type though, being a massive hypocrite as every human is, if it was my job and put food on the table I would.


*****EDIT*****

I still WOULDN'T handle though. I'd use a catch cup.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

If anything, I bet people who rely on catch cups and are too afraid to actually touch the spider are more likely to <edit> up if it unexpectedly crawls out of the cup and up their arm or something.

Lol, people who refuse to handle aren't scared of touching their tarantulas, handling a tarantula doesn't make you Billy Big Balls.

On the contrary, it's people who handle regularly that tend to screw up as they get complacent because they think they "know their tarantula", said tarantula does something unexpected, and the next thing they know they've got a tarantula bleeding out from a ruptured abdomen.

 

[Braden]

Lol, people who refuse to handle aren't scared of touching their tarantulas, handling a tarantula doesn't make you Billy Big Balls.

On the contrary, it's people who handle regularly that tend to screw up as they get complacent because they think they "know their tarantula", said tarantula does something unexpected, and the next thing they know they've got a tarantula bleeding out from a ruptured abdomen.

I agree and almost never handle my T's. But if I am rehousing a more "docile" species(taking that with a grain of salt), I may handle it on the way into the new enclosure because I feel this is a pretty good opportunity and the T is already out(no need to stress it another time).

I think this is one of those topics that are opinion based. If you want to handle your T's than nobody is going to stop you, but make sure you are informed of the risks you are taking and be careful. If you will never handle them, than so be it.

 

[Salmonsaladsandwich]

Lol, people who refuse to handle aren't scared of touching their tarantulas, handling a tarantula doesn't make you Billy Big Balls.

On the contrary, it's people who handle regularly that tend to screw up as they get complacent because they think they "know their tarantula", said tarantula does something unexpected, and the next thing they know they've got a tarantula bleeding out from a ruptured abdomen.

One of the arguments I've seen against handling in this thread and elsewhere is that people panic when the tarantula moves unexpectedly. Many keepers are former arachnophobes, i'm pretty sure that the anti-handling sentiment wouldn't be nearly as widespread in the tarantula hobby (where are all the anti-handling mantis and gecko keepers? Those animals are delicate and gain nothing from handling too) if it weren't for residual fear. I'm not saying everyone who's against handling is secretly terrified of their spiders, but I would be surprised if that hasn't contributed to the popularity of being against handling. Some people are wired to have an instinctive response to spiders, some aren't. A small rodent can do more damage to you with its teeth than a typical NW tarantula can do with its fangs, so I don't see a non-arachnophobic handling a T as any braver than a kid with a cranky hamster.

In any case, I still agree that handling is a risky activity, I just disagree that making high and mighty claims about the ethics of it has any merit.