Genus Grammostola

[CandyFana]

Helo.. im also a very big fan of grammostola here in Europe.

but they are very difficult to find.
Only rosea, conception, pulchra, grossa and aureotibialis (pulchripes) are to find.

I have : and would like specialist to try to answer me Vachoni/chalcothrix

- rosea Red Female + male + Slings (I mated and got slings)
- Rosea brown afemale of 22 years
- Grossa (3)
- pulchra (4)
- Formosa (2)
- Alticeps (3)
- Aureotibialis (pulchripes) (5)
- Iheringi 1
- Acteon (snif snif a sub male and i dont find any female)1


and i have One that i got st1 unknow.. from Argentina
now she (he) gets juvenile and i kan not find if it is Vachoni or Chalcothrix.
You find everything on internet and no one seems to know.
Are vachoni and Chalcothrix the same ? im not sure; because sometime you find spiders called chalcothrix and they are definitevely not the same.
In the shop i sometime buy, they have 2 unknown grammostola from Argentina, DIFFERENT and for me one is vachoni and one is chalcothrix.

One is grey with samon hair... like this. The other one has also salmon hairs but more 2 yelow lines on the knies like aureotibialis.
What do you think ?

What is this ? A male vachoni or Chalcothrix ?






Acteon :


Iheringi :



Female Rosea red :





:drunken:

Rosea brown : she was 19



Formosa :



Alticeps :





Pulchra :





Auréostriata (for me not the same as pulchripes with orange knies and dark body



next time other ones..

One more : what is the difference between :

grammostola auréostriata who became pulchripes

yellow knies, brown body and the pulchripes orange knew and darker body : grey and brow abdomen ?
I really definitively dont understand why they change name to give name from another spider (pulchripes was grossa before) and they give the same name for different spiders.

they are several in Argentina who looks a little bit the same but are different and when they get them here, they dont know the name and put a name they think and sell them...

What a mixed up ! ! SAD

 

[Spider1986]

first of all i think your 1.st spider is a vachoni male,but anyway after Marbach börse i will have my own adult male, i will post pics from him and from the mating.
i think what you have as actaeon also an iheringi too, after molts compare they spermathec im sure will be the same. actaeon after reach 10-11.molt hasnt red hairy abdomen like iheringi, at actaeon its going to almost black even after freshly molt, and as i see your animal is more then 13-14 molted. so i think thats iheringi.
check mines,young and old adult females:

freshly molted adult female:

adult male:

pairing:

At Rick:
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php?id=741
----------------

about aureostriata/pulchripes:
it didnt renamed, just scientists found out that this species have been described earlier as name: pulchripes, so it got the original name. There were 2 species in hobby: aureostriata and aureostriata big form, the 1.st name is changed back to pulchripes, i think aureostriata big form is a different species, in hobby its happening lot time,that similar animals got same names (even only if they color is similar,just check Aphonopelma topic:chalcodes mexico,arizona pics,big lol... even sp.New river what sold as different species but im almost sure they are old chalcodes...)

look that:
http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php?id=254

http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php?id=216

 

[CandyFana]

http://www.birdspiders.com/gallery/p.php?id=254

Is that no chalcothrix ?
They always told me that chalcothrix looked a little bit like pulchrimaklaasi.

That is really a pity.. All that fuss.

In europe, we had aureostriata brown, with yellow knies..
Now they sell pulchripes, saying it is aureostriata, but that is not true, they are darker with orange knie like your first link..

For Acteon, i would be VERY pleased if that was iheringi, so i would perhaps can mate them later.

But it is to soon to be sure because those animals are younger you think :

iheringi is only 10-11 mould and Acteon is only 9-10 mould, never more.
I looked at spermatheek with a magnifying glass but it is so small and acteon has none..:wall:
If it would be iheringi, i would be pleased

For Vachoni, i thaught so... also :barf: A male..

Please look at that link...

http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.spidy.goliathus.com/foto/g_vachonii.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.spidy.goliathus.com/english/grammostola-vachoni-id82.html&usg=__S8EXYswR51efpKyAddijLSlBc-c=&h=330&w=490&sz=70&hl=fr&start=2&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=u7pAgvbEtHK4jM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvachoni%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dfr%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1

This female, is it a real Vachoni ? Because i think i get buy one here and so i could mate.

There are none to find in Europe. When i post picture on my forum, no one know what is a acteon, what is a vachoni, what is a iheringi, they dont even know wat is a alticeps.

Worse, now they call it here mollicoma.:wall:

Again you never know what you buy because i think alticeps could be mollicoma north; but mollicoma south ?

I dont know where to find REAL informations about grammostolas...

Thanks for you informations

 

[pato_chacoana]

Hi,

This is a never ending debate, as no true positive IDs can be done for many Grammostola. Anyway, the vachoni-chalcothrix-gossei-schulzei-etc... group is a mess, with some very likely synonymy that has not been published yet. I can tell you where they come from and how they called here, but a true positive ID I would say it's almost impossible. I will post a larger answer later with pics when I have time.

Cheers,
Pato

 

[CandyFana]

Oh very Thank you...

Do you know how it would be possible for me in Europe to get some Grammostola ?
perhaps via Duitch sellers ?
When they buy a lot, perhaps you could put somme grammostolas with ?

Im looking so mush for

- Chalcothrix
- Vachoni
- Acteon
- Pulchripes (ORANGE knee with grey)
- Mollicoma North

I would like a few slings/juveniles/subs of each...

Is that a dream ?

 

[EvlMinion]

Not Grammostola pulchripes, but Eupalaestrus campestratus you have.

Thank you! How do you tell the difference? I image searched and as far as I can see, the carapace looks darker on the pulchripes but I'm not sure what else is different.

Err, sorry for the slow reply.

 

[EvlMinion]

...aaaannnd after more research, the personality appears to match my spider. Thanks again for the correction!

 

[sja69]

G. Pulchra - Sabbath

No matter how hard I look I still can't tell if it's male or female - wish I had a better camera!

 

[CandyFana]

The problem is not the camera but the view you take.
No one can sex of this angle.

Even with the best camera.

But now she should be moulded, so you have to look for spermatheques in the mould itself.

male of female ?

 

[CandyFana]

Pato, do you think of posting your pictures ?

thanks..:worship:

 

[pato_chacoana]

Thank you! How do you tell the difference? I image searched and as far as I can see, the carapace looks darker on the pulchripes but I'm not sure what else is different.

Err, sorry for the slow reply.

Eupalaestrus genus: ''Differs from other genera of Theraphosinae in the incrassate tibiae IV...'' Perez-Miles et al.-Theraphosinae 1996.
Not to mention that they have lots of different characters with Grammostola, spermathecae, stridulating setae, etc...

Pato-

 

[pato_chacoana]

Pato, do you think of posting your pictures ?

thanks..:worship:

I've haven't gotten around getting new pics...but here's what I dug from past years......

Grammostola pulchripes (big form) from Chaco Region, Argentina.

premolt

postmolt

Another really big female (note also the wider stripes)

male:

In this link, you can see the first picture is the other form...that can also be found in Argentina:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/the.tarantula.store/G.aureostriata.htm
The second picture, seems to be the big form

Also, a male:

Grammostola burzaquensis adult female

The etymology: Burzaco is a neighborhood 20km. south Argentina's capital city of Buenos Aires (Buenos Aires Province).

Grammostola sp. ''chalcothrix'' from San Luis province (also found in other provinces as well). Possibly the real chalcothrix described by Chamberlin 1917.

Grammostola sp. ''chalcothrix''/''gossei/''vachoni'' (possibly the real gossei). Found in Sierra de la Ventana, Tandil, (Buenos Aires province).

Grammostola sp. undescribed, from Santiago del Estero, Argentina.

Grammostola mendozae (Córdoba, San Luis, Mendoza, etc.) Big spider.

Grammostola pulchra (also referred as ''north mollicoma'')

Grammostola mollicoma (''alticeps''), BTW no one knows which is the true alticeps.

Grammostola iheringi

Note the vivid red abdomen, in contrast with actaeon.

And there are more undescribed or unID species...

About the Chilean Gramms, rosea group... I know nothing about them. lol. They are a worse mess. I can tell you G. rosea can be found in Argentina, as other Euathlus as well.

I hope this helps...any way I doubt it helps much, it's really difficult to compare these spiders with pics and know what you have.

Cheers,
Pato

 

[CandyFana]

Thanx !

For the informations we have here : The one you say Pulchra : mollicoma north would be wrong.

Your mollicoma south, is the one we say mollicoma north. Nearly black with red hairs below the legs. and sometimes purple

grammostola south is grammostola alticeps. nearly the same but lighter en red/brown far for moult; when mollicoma north is mush darker like yours.

But there are also discussion on pulchra because you can find her ons everal places also.

But that is all taken from old picture from begin 1900... so perhaps they were there also wrong ! ! :wall::wall::wall:


Now out of that : when i think of evolution, i have the idea that perhaps some of them described a long time ago : disapeard in their pure version.

I think, perhaps with changing of climat, of heat, of some nature problems, 2 different species mixed once, and only the "hybrid" stronger and more adapted to nature's changing survived !

Fot me, that is what happend with rosea; but perhaps also with some others only in certain places.

If you have a very very hard winter with - 20° perhaps you can think, for exemple, all males of rosea brown were dead.
And females had no choice that mating with males red color forum who matured later..

or something like that !

Some species are NET and easy to name and than you have some which have things and colors form different iother species.

And that is the same with avicularias and so on !

 

[pato_chacoana]

Anyone can call each spider whatever they want...I don't really care...as long as they mate the same species or variants. Anyway, not much Grammostola breeding in captivity is done. No one can be correct about IDs, me neither, I just try to give the most likely ID and place of origin (most important).

About your speciation theory...well, I don't think that can happen in such short period of time. Yes, SLIGHT changes in colour or other aspects can occur in 100 years, but NOT SPECIATION...which takes looooots of time.

The problem is, that we see animals at a given time and they have a very long evolutionary history. So we try to classify them and perhaps there are cases where is hard to draw a line as to what exactly are they...different sp.? different morphs? still reproduce with each other?? or are at the beginning of speciation?? etc.etc.......

Cheers,
Pato

 

[crawltech]

Pato, thanx for the awsome grammostola tech!...and the nice pix.....cant beleive there is so much goin on wit these guys....and people think the avic genus is messed:wall:

 

[CandyFana]

I, agree with you Pato, and i find your way to put the found area, very top !

i breed spiders now for 24 years and it is very difficult to see all those changing in name; most of the time without real explanation.
And after those years, i would like to go deeper in genius grammostola, my favorite ones.

And it is mush more difficult when the "theory" does not match with what you see in nature or in your terrarium.

that is also because i think the same as you : breeding same species together, that i do have so mush problems.

You live there and you can go yourself and find some; but here in europe, we only have a few species.
I have some or i can get some, not usual in hobby and there begin de problems.

i would like to mate them, so they spread in hobby, because for me : grammostolas have mush more to learn, and too mush poeple take them for a stone in a box. And that is totaly wrong !

And there begin problems : what is the name of what i have. Without exact name, very difficult to search for a male or a female. Than you find one, you buy : it comes home and oh : that is not exactely the same.
And you begin to doubt : shall i mate this ? is this the same or not ?
is this the same with color variant or long without mould or different species.

I THINK, i have a male vachoni, but he is still young.
I'm looking for a female.
I find one in a shop; it seems to be the same; but not sure.

We dont have any goed picture of vachoni on the net and, male and female can be a little bit different !

If i buy and mate : BIG fuss if they are not the same

If i buy and mate : :worship: if they are the same.. but with wich name do i have to give them ?


YOU get the chance to capture male and female; but here in Europe.. we are stuck...

 

[After3Days]

My Adult Grammostola Pulchra

Meet Nikkita.

 

[Alireza]

Here are my 2 Chilean Rose Tarantulas.I love them very much .They are my first "actual" tarantulas (I have kept wolf spiders 3-4 years before ).They are both about 4 inches long. I have posted some pics of them in the Epiandrous fusillae sexing gallery, please help me in sexing them

Epiandrous fusillae picture : http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=18979&catid=newimages

rosie :

Epiandrous fusillae picture : http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=18978&catid=newimages

 

[Spider1986]

Hello again guys,
i think you know this links:

http://www.iibce.edu.uy/tarantulas/ingles/

http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v37_n1/arac-37-01-92.pdf

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0073-47212006000100013&script=sci_arttext

the important part is G.mollicoma soulth (in hobby: G.alticeps) and North form, they are different colour forms only in my opinion, G.pulchra's color and body is similar, and still different, even we looking them by eyes.
i have got the both forms, adult females, exactly what i red from them on the 1.st link about south form: reddish hairs under femurs, south form: whitish hairs under femur. here are my pics from them:
G.mollicoma North and G.mollicoma South:

North form without reddish and with whitish hairs:

South form with reddish hairs:

pulchra with the different body proportions (more robust body and much more shorter and thicker legs,also different hairs)

 

[pato_chacoana]

''G. mollicoma north'' IS G. pulchra to me. In fact, most (if not all) the G. pulchra you guys get in Europe and US are WC from North Uruguay.

Don't you think it's funny that site doesn't mention G. pulchra for Uruguay??? I know for sure, they are found in BIG numbers in North Uruguay. But instead, that site says ''G. mollicoma north''. And also, they say G. iheringi is from Uruguay, while it's described for Brazil only... In fact my guess is that they have is G. grossa... just a guess.

Everyone with their own opinions about Grammostola... nothing is certain and no one keyed out the genus properly ever yet.

Cheers,
Pato