G.rosea import ban?

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

So the rumor is true after all?

Yes it's true, I found this out at a reptile show earlier today.

Jose

 

[MrsHaas]

I heard it happened like 4 days ago



--J.Haas

---------- Post added 05-17-2015 at 12:18 AM ----------

Yes it's true, I found this out at a reptile show earlier today.

Jose

Did this happen to be the Pleasanton convention? I missed it *shucks*



--J.Haas

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

I heard it happened like 4 days ago



--J.Haas

---------- Post added 05-17-2015 at 12:18 AM ----------



Did this happen to be the Pleasanton convention? I missed it *shucks*



--J.Haas

No this was in Salt Lake City, and it is the first time I hear about it. It does make me wonder if any other species besides rose hair will not be imported as well.


Jose

 

[MrsHaas]

No this was in Salt Lake City, and it is the first time I hear about it. It does make me wonder if any other species besides rose hair will not be imported as well.


Jose

Ditto! How much did rose hairs to up in price? Do you know?

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Ditto! How much did rose hairs to up in price? Do you know?

I saw it as high as $49.99. The pet store owner that informed me did not seem happy about the banned at all. I take it that the store owner may be taking a loss since now he has to raise the price and maybe have to keep feeding some of those spiders for a while.

Jose

 

[MrsHaas]

I saw it as high as $49.99

Jose

Seriously? For a MF?

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Seriously? For a MF?

That's if you are lucky to get a female most pet stores aren't going to tell you what sex the tarantulas are. Unless you are dealing with an individual that knows a lot about spiders.



Jose

 

[MrsHaas]

That's if you are lucky to get a female most pet stores aren't going to tell you what sex the tarantulas are. Unless you are dealing with an individual that knows a lot about spiders.



Jose

Wowza! That's quite a bit to gamble on subadult... I'm surprised it went up so fast! I figured it would be gradual



--J.Haas

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Wowza! That's quite a bit to gamble on subadult... I'm surprised it went up so fast! I figured it would be gradual



--J.Haas

We'll probably cause now pet store owners are not seeing the rose hairs on their price list.


Jose

 

[DVirginiana]

In response to the comments earlier that the main threat to the population is not the main threat to this species "taking them out of the world in general is": This is completely illogical. It takes numbers far lower than the current wild population of G. rosea to throw a species into the sort of 'death spiral' of inbreeding and predation that will lead to extinction. The point of the ban is to prevent the numbers from getting that low that it comes to that. From a conservationalist standpoint it makes perfect sense. This is also my perspective as an ecologist.

As annoying as it may be, I'm glad there will finally be incentive to breed captive populations of this species and reduce strain on the natural ecosystems.

 

[cold blood]

However, not all humans are actively threatening this spider. If the spider were to be left alone, as you advocate, you imply it will surely progress into a death spiral. So. Breed the animal in captivity. Release the progeny into the wild. Rinse and repeat. Factor for inbreeding. What part of this is illogical?

No, not at all what I'm saying. The #1 threat to them in the wild IS collection. If they would be left alone, it would be for the BEST for the t. I never even came close to implying that they would go into a death spiral if left alone....I suggested nearly the opposite.

 

[Hellemose]

So we are saving G. rosea/porteri by taking them out of the wild.

I am pretty sure we have a different way of thinking.

i will suggest people to read the book : The Invisible Ark by David and Tracy Barker - http://vpi.com/store/products/invisible-ark-defense-captivity-david-and-tracy-barker-2014

i know it doesnt specifically focus on T's but its focus is to make clear how conservation through captivation can be good and important, alot of species survival are ensured because of the hobbyists keeping and breeding them.

 

[Blueandbluer]

i will suggest people to read the book : The Invisible Ark by David and Tracy Barker - http://vpi.com/store/products/invisible-ark-defense-captivity-david-and-tracy-barker-2014

i know it doesnt specifically focus on T's but its focus is to make clear how conservation through captivation can be good and important, alot of species survival are ensured because of the hobbyists keeping and breeding them.

I do t think anyone here disagrees with that, Hellemose. We absolutely should keep breeding them. However, we have already imported more than enough stock to be able to do that. There is 0 benefit to continuing to pull them out of their native habitat and plenty harm.

Here's the difference, folks. If we have an animal like pokies who are endangered because of loss of habitat or or suchlike, yeah, it may make sense to keep exporting while we attempt conservation through husbandry. They'll die if left there, so maybe we can give them a chance. But when their main threat is that very exportation? Then continuing to export is just irresponsible greed.

I am generally leery of legislation in the pet trade, but I am all for this importation ban. As I see it, it can only have good effects:

1) Wild population has an opportunity to rebound (and there's no reason to assume it won't when export was causing the problem to begin with)
2) We hobbyists get rewarded for breeding with higher value on the juves we've bred
3) The petstores stop hawking G roseas/porteris as the best beginner T (they're NOT)

Win-win-win.

 

[awiec]

Suddenly relevant again with a new "twin" thread.:wondering:

Search engine anyone?

Probably should get merged, exact same points are being made and same people are responding

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

I agree with putting a stop to wild caught specimens specially on rose hairs, for a limited time only. Rose hairs have been collected for many years and by the hundreds. I am always able to purchase wholesale wild caught rose hairs by the hundreds. That is just a bit much, specially considering for how many years they have being imported.
Though I absolutely agree as a collector or pet keeper I would like to have wild caught specimen of any species available. Where do you draw the line and put a stop of wild caught specimens being collected from the wild? Grammostola rosea has being pissed on sort of speak do to the fact that they are nothing value to collectors. I like rose hairs, they are indeed slow growers but no different than some other different species in collectors homes.


-J

 

[ratluvr76]

Are rosea like B. Smith? Let me clarify. B smithi were being by the thousands by the people in mexico because they were considered a pest species and the people would hunt them out specifically to kill them for that reason. When they found that there was an opportunity to sell them into the pet trade, the people there, being impoverished would then sell them and ship them off onstead. When they became cites listed, effectively banned from export from mexico, they just went back to killing them instead.

 

[awiec]

Are rosea like B. Smith? Let me clarify. B smithi were being by the thousands by the people in mexico because they were considered a pest species and the people would hunt them out specifically to kill them for that reason. When they found that there was an opportunity to sell them into the pet trade, the people there, being impoverished would then sell them and ship them off onstead. When they became cites listed, effectively banned from export from mexico, they just went back to killing them instead.

Not sure if people bothered them really, I do recall an article that they are a valuable cash animal because of the pet trade. Though I think Chile has a better track record of keeping their natives safe compared to Mexico. I can't seem to recall any data saying the people were killing them, I imagine they would just be left alone. Though even if people went back to killing them, that is an issue with education not the pet trade. We need to breed what we have (which is a lot of diverse blood lines) so we can't be targeted by pet groups saying we decimate wild populations. I'm all for bringing some WC specimens here and there to keep things fresh but there are thousands of rosea in captivity that should be bred.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Not sure if people bothered them really, I do recall an article that they are a valuable cash animal because of the pet trade. Though I think Chile has a better track record of keeping their natives safe compared to Mexico. I can't seem to recall any data saying the people were killing them, I imagine they would just be left alone. Though even if people went back to killing them, that is an issue with education not the pet trade. We need to breed what we have (which is a lot of diverse blood lines) so we can't be targeted by pet groups saying we decimate wild populations. I'm all for bringing some WC specimens here and there to keep things fresh but there are thousands of rosea in captivity that should be bred.

This is exactly one of my points there are thousands of them.
And yes we need to breed them. Not ignore them. Well said!


-J

 

[awiec]

This is exactly one of my points there are thousands of them.
And yes we need to breed them. Not ignore them. Well said!


-J

It's also one of the reasons why I never really wanted one as there would just be another in the pet store or if I were to get CB slings then I wouldn't have anyone interested in them if I had a male or needed to find homes for them. Even though I generally pick what I like, I also keep in the back in my mind whether or not I'd be able to re-home them or breed them if I needed to, G.rosea/porteri just don't fit that criteria very well.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

It's also one of the reasons why I never really wanted one as there would just be another in the pet store or if I were to get CB slings then I wouldn't have anyone interested in them if I had a male or needed to find homes for them. Even though I generally pick what I like, I also keep in the back in my mind whether or not I'd be able to re-home them or breed them if I needed to, G.rosea/porteri just don't fit that criteria very well.

There was one point in time that rosea was not being imported, and people were dying to get their hands on them again just like the Grammostola sp. "Conception". Now it's happening again and maybe for good including porteri and maybe others like Eauthlus species. This is a wake up call for us hobbiest.
Now there is a reason for us hobbiest to begin and continue the process of CB breeding of this fine species.


-J