Fast True Spiders as Experience for OW Tarantulas?

[Stugy]

Are Tarantulas easier to manage in terms of speed and movement compared with true spiders because of size differences? Assuming the T is larger than the true spider that is being kept? I have never kept true spiders

Well I guess it's the way they are built. Like some Heteropoda species can reach a pretty nice size but they are lightning fast. But at the same time Heteropoda tend to be rather "not so bulky" compared to tarantulas. Doesn't exactly answer the question but just wanted to throw that in

 

[spotropaicsav]

Well I guess it's the way they are built. Like some Heteropoda species can reach a pretty nice size but they are lightning fast. But at the same time Heteropoda tend to be rather "not so bulky" compared to tarantulas. Doesn't exactly answer the question but just wanted to throw that in

Makes sense

 

[Nightstalker47]

Are Tarantulas easier to manage in terms of speed and movement compared with true spiders because of size differences? Assuming the T is larger than the true spider that is being kept? I have never kept true spiders

I have found that true spiders are much more unpredictable in their movements and are more likely to spazz out when being prodded.

 

[CEC]

DISCLAIMER: Before I even elaborate further, I need to stress that this is just a THEORY I have and would like to hear opinions on from more experienced keepers. I am by all means not telling anybody that if you have experience with the standard everyday spider, you can handle the average Old World tarantula hellbent on destruction. This topic is meant purely to trigger discussion from all levels of expertise, and hopefully provide an educational experience for all.

So anyway. I was going through various threads on here the other day, and of course, I came across thread after thread of how to make the switch from NW to OW. Often, I notice people say to start with Avics to get some understanding of a fast-ish tarantula without the inherent danger of an OW species. But for me, that always brings one thought to mind: my boyfriend's fishing spider (Dolomedes tenebrosus) is consistently faster than my A. avic and C. versicolor have ever been. Maybe my two are just lazy, maybe I've never bothered them to the point where they felt it necessary to go top speed, but I've just never seen them go that fast. Have they bolted on me before? Absolutely! Have they moved faster than I can blink? Definitely. But only in very short bursts, and not to the point where I'm screaming expletives while in full panic mode because it's moving faster than I can even process what's going on. The fishing spider is on a WHOLE DIFFERENT LEVEL. That thing will bolt at even the slightest disturbances, and it will run like there's no tomorrow. It needs a catch cup on hand and it's enclosure needs to be in a bigger container just going to feed it. As far as I'm concerned, that spider has prepared me for an OW more than my Avics ever will (I don't have any OW and I assure you I won't be getting one any time soon). And most fishing spiders I've seen in the wild behave the same way. So to me, that beckons the question: is there something wrong with suggesting some of the faster true spiders (fishing spiders, nursery web spiders, wolf spiders, etc) to people prior to an OW tarantula? Sure, it's not a tarantula, but there's some big and fast true spiders that I honestly think could do a fantastic job at preparing someone for their first Old World. They provide the speed and flightiness, but without the potent venom. Exactly what people want to prepare themselves for the switch. And since there are some fishing and wolf spiders that can certainly obtain impressive sizes, so you aren't necessarily sacrificing size completely. And while I still think it would be a good idea to have experience with fast New World tarantulas as well, I don't think the idea of getting some experience with a a fast true spider is something to just brush off completely. It just seems like something worth putting legitimate thought into.

I agree that the True spider species you mentioned will better prepare you for an OW than an Avicularia. Although, I have never heard of Avicularia being advised as a stepping stone to OWs. They are usually referenced as the best starter arboreal because they are the slowest and generally less defensive. Psalmopoeus is usually the best advised stepping stone genus before any OW. Not just because they are quicker, they also usually have similar defensive behaviour with strong venom for a NW. Probably because (like OWs) they lack urticating setae.
Or maybe even Ephebopus, as they are just as quick and IME, highly defensive.

Lots of True spiders (many already mentioned) are faster than any OW species. Dolomedes tenebrosus are very fast but are they as defensive or bitey as most OWs? I've never cared for one but IME of encountering them in the wild, I believe they aren't near as defensive.

P.S. Your right, Tarantulas lack endurance compared to True spiders. You learn that quickly when you take them all out for photo sessions. Lol

 

[PidderPeets]

I agree that the True spider species you mentioned will better prepare you for an OW than an Avicularia. Although, I have never heard of Avicularia being advised as a stepping stone to OWs. They are usually referenced as the best starter arboreal because they are the slowest and generally less defensive. Psalmopoeus is usually the best advised stepping stone genus before any OW. Not just because they are quicker, they also usually have similar defensive behaviour with strong venom for a NW. Probably because (like OWs) they lack urticating setae.
Or maybe even Ephebopus, as they are just as quick and IME, highly defensive.

Lots of True spiders (many already mentioned) are faster than any OW species. Dolomedes tenebrosus are very fast but are they as defensive or bitey as most OWs? I've never cared for one but IME of encountering them in the wild, I believe they aren't near as defensive.

P.S. Your right, Tarantulas lack endurance compared to True spiders. You learn that quickly when you take them all out for photo sessions. Lol

There's always the possibility that information got jumbled up in my head, but I could have sworn I've seen people recommend Avics, then Psalmopeus, and then finally switching to calmer OWs. As for the defensive behavior, I'm glad you brought that up because I honestly admit that was something that never even crossed my mind. I was thinking solely about the speed and getting something with less potent venom, not actually about behavior. That's another very important thing to be considered. Generally, I've notice most Dolomedes I've encountered to be more flighty than anything, but they can be fairly defensive when startled, and I've seen quite a good deal of defensiveness from females when I've gotten too close to their nursery web. I think a little bit of it comes down to just the personality of individuals of a species. But maybe a different species might be a better bet overall. I've gotten threat postures from even tiny slings of the Sparassidae family, so maybe that's a better bet. I just haven't seen them go as fast as some of the others previously mentioned true spiders. Or, I suppose people could just stick with the already frequently recommended tarantulas. Lol. I guess if it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[awiec]

I agree that the True spider species you mentioned will better prepare you for an OW than an Avicularia. Although, I have never heard of Avicularia being advised as a stepping stone to OWs. They are usually referenced as the best starter arboreal because they are the slowest and generally less defensive. Psalmopoeus is usually the best advised stepping stone genus before any OW. Not just because they are quicker, they also usually have similar defensive behaviour with strong venom for a NW. Probably because (like OWs) they lack urticating setae.
Or maybe even Ephebopus, as they are just as quick and IME, highly defensive.

Lots of True spiders (many already mentioned) are faster than any OW species. Dolomedes tenebrosus are very fast but are they as defensive or bitey as most OWs? I've never cared for one but IME of encountering them in the wild, I believe they aren't near as defensive.

P.S. Your right, Tarantulas lack endurance compared to True spiders. You learn that quickly when you take them all out for photo sessions. Lol

We actually did an experiment in a class I was in to see who had more endurance between a few different genus of spiders and male G.rosea. The dolomedes certainly were faster but tired out in about 10 minutes, we tried to get our tarantula to tire out bit 40 minutes later he was still cruising, no hairs or threat poses during the session...the poor pholsid died of exhaustion.

Now I kept true spiders way before I had tarantulas and I suppose they did help me for faster species but I find tarantulas to be far more predictable, which is good since they are more fragile due to their bulk. I find Taps to be a nice stepping stone as they are the fastest genus but aren't going to hurt that bad when they bite. If you want something that'll prepare you for sass then psalmos or Iridopelma are good candiates. Though the bright side if you use true spiders instead is that they mature fast so you won't have to wait long to get experience with speed.

 

[Olan]

In my opinion, part of the challenge of old worlds is that humans have a startle response to seeing such a large and bulky invertebrate move so fast. So I think only quite large true spiders could get one used to this and be a good stepping stone.

 

[Ellenantula]

When I rehoused my Psalmi into adult enclosure, he teleported and even after putting enclosure lid on, I was still scanning the floors and walls -- I was unsure if actually he went into new enclosure or not. I even reasoned he may have ran inside new enclosure but then ran right back out again without me seeing it. lol Thankfully, he had gone inside new housing as prodded, so rehouse was successful (yeah, this was a side-by-side rehouse -- I stink at the bag method and had little catch-cup room in his juvie enclosure). And I knew ahead of time to expect his speed burst, because he did the same maneuver as a 'largish' sling when I first unboxed him. To me, it seemed psalmi speed was faster than my eye could track. Like teleporting. For this reason, I see no Tapi in my future.

My avic hasn't shown me any speed -- even rehousings were sort of a lazy prod with paintbrush to get her to move. Even her hunting seems sort of lazy, laying in wait for prey to walk by. In fact, any disturbance and she tends to get still and sort of pull into herself, making herself look long, skinny - smaller somehow. And I had thought an avic would run and jump. Oh well.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

US poster -- I was assuming normal house spiders, wolfies, grass spiders and such was all OP intended. Just spiders OP might find around house and yard.

Yeah -- please OP -- don't order a Brazilian wandering spider. rofl

keep in mind, even here in the states we have some HOT true spiders.

Recluse and Widows come to mind. not exactly wondering spider HOT but still not a Spider you want to be bit by, and this is coming from experience of having my arm operated on after a pretty nasty recluse bite when i was 15.

ill take any OBT/S Cal/Hmac bite over the nasty necrosis that can happen from a true Recluse lol.

 

[PidderPeets]

keep in mind, even here in the states we have some HOT true spiders.

Recluse and Widows come to mind. not exactly wondering spider HOT but still not a Spider you want to be bit by, and this is coming from experience of having my arm operated on after a pretty nasty recluse bite when i was 15.

ill take any OBT/S Cal/Hmac bite over the nasty necrosis that can happen from a true Recluse lol.

I agree I wouldn't want to be bit by either species. Lol. But I wouldn't consider a widow as a candidate because I was mainly thinking of non-webbing species. I don't know how fast recluses are, but I trust myself enough to differentiate them from a harmless species that I'd be interested in. I'm not one of those people that assumes every brown spider in existence is a brown recluse

 

[Tanner Dzula]

I agree I wouldn't want to be bit by either species. Lol. But I wouldn't consider a widow as a candidate because I was mainly thinking of non-webbing species. I don't know how fast recluses are, but I trust myself enough to differentiate them from a harmless species that I'd be interested in. I'm not one of those people that assumes every brown spider in existence is a brown recluse

to be honest, if you want a good decently fast spider i WOULD recommend a widow, only because its VERY easy to tell the difference between a Male and Female (Red hour glass on the abdomen and much larger then males) and the males are not very hot at all, but still retain a lot of the speed of widows. and whole widows DO web, they are good practice in general for speed because they are still VERY fast.

in fact if i hadn't had to deal with collecting black widows from my back yard, i probably would not have been as capable with my current species( H. macs and such)

but as far as non-webbers, wolf spiders and grass spiders are definitely the right candidates. I've had more *gasp* moments from my grass spider bolting then i have from my Pokies or Baboons, and thats with me knowing that i dont have to worry about a Loose grass spider in the house over the alternative.

 

[Ellenantula]

I don't think the idea of getting some experience with a a fast true spider is something to just brush off completely. It just seems like something worth putting legitimate thought into.

US poster -- I was assuming normal house spiders, wolfies, grass spiders and such was all OP intended. Just spiders OP might find around house and yard.

keep in mind, even here in the states we have some HOT true spiders.
Recluse and Widows come to mind. not exactly wondering spider HOT but still not a Spider you want to be bit by

Right. "Normal house spiders, wolfies, grass spiders and such."

@PidderPeets -- don't practice with recluses and widows.

Better?

 

[Ellenantula]

Cross-posting.

Stay safe @PidderPeets

 

[PidderPeets]

to be honest, if you want a good decently fast spider i WOULD recommend a widow, only because its VERY easy to tell the difference between a Male and Female (Red hour glass on the abdomen and much larger then males) and the males are not very hot at all, but still retain a lot of the speed of widows. and whole widows DO web, they are good practice in general for speed because they are still VERY fast.

in fact if i hadn't had to deal with collecting black widows from my back yard, i probably would not have been as capable with my current species( H. macs and such)

but as far as non-webbers, wolf spiders and grass spiders are definitely the right candidates. I've had more *gasp* moments from my grass spider bolting then i have from my Pokies or Baboons, and thats with me knowing that i dont have to worry about a Loose grass spider in the house over the alternative.

Hmm, I actually forgot that male black widows aren't quite as bad as females. I'm still not thinking I'm up for the challenge of them, but that is some definite food for thought. I appreciate the suggestion.

But I do wanna clarify with any potential readers of this thread that black widows and brown recluse have MEDICALLY SIGNIFICANT venom (unless I'm wrong) and are not your everyday, harmless spider.

 

[PidderPeets]

Right. "Normal house spiders, wolfies, grass spiders and such."

@PidderPeets -- don't practice with recluses and widows.

Better?

Noted! No potentially dangerous species for me just yet

And maybe I'm just being really oblivious right now, but what do you mean by "cross-posting"? My mind is drawing a blank

 

[Ellenantula]

Noted! No potentially dangerous species for me just yet

And maybe I'm just being really oblivious right now, but what do you mean by "cross-posting"? My mind is drawing a blank

Cross-posting -- I was replying but you guys posted before I got mine posted, in this case -- making my post irrelevant. lol

And correction: apparently you CAN practice with male widows.

Sorry, I am easily amused. I'm like "what did I post that encouraged anyone to practice with 'hot' species in the first place?" So, I relayed this "urgent message" without knowing (cross-posting) you were already discussing these dangers with the 'alerter.'
lol

[Not sure why he didn't just reply to you, alone, in the first place!]

 

[PidderPeets]

Cross-posting -- I was replying but you guys posted before I got mine posted, in this case -- making my post irrelevant. lol

And correction: apparently you CAN practice with male widows.

Sorry, I am easily amused. I'm like "what did I post that encouraged anyone to practice with 'hot' species in the first place?" So, I relayed this "urgent message" without knowing (cross-posting) you were already discussing these dangers with the 'alerter.'
lol

[Not sure why he didn't just reply to you, alone, in the first place!]

Okay, I gotcha! My mind is all over the place today, so I wouldn't have figured that one out on my own

But it's all good. Honestly I think it's probably in the best interest of everyone if there's more than one post clarifying the dangers of these venomous species. The more warnings, the better!

 

[spotropaicsav]

Okay, I gotcha! My mind is all over the place today, so I wouldn't have figured that one out on my own

But it's all good. Honestly I think it's probably in the best interest of everyone if there's more than one post clarifying the dangers of these venomous species. The more warnings, the better!

So maybe wolf spiders or grass spiders could be something you could try?

 

[mconnachan]

Don't get me wrong, just because I've never seen any of my Ts go any remarkable speeds, doesn't mean I'm not equipped with a catch cup and prepared for any unexpected bursts.

I've always got a catch cup at the ready for any feeding, maintenance, no matter which spider it may be!

I wasn't suggesting you get a Brazilian wandering spider as a bridge to OWs. I was merely pointing out that many true spiders are far more venomous and could be considered even more difficult to keep then your average OW species.

Without question, the speed that true spiders move is unbelievable, "teleport - understatement".

I'd much rather deal with a Poecilotheria species than a Ctenid, if I was worried about it being too fast.

My Poecilotheria would always rather hide than bolt, I can't comment on Cnetid, having never seen them, but I'll take your word on that.

I'm also the type of person who doesn't necessarily believe OW Ts are that incredibly challenging, as long as you do your homework and use your head. Not everyone has the room to end up with 30 different "intermediate" species just to graduate to the almighty OWs

Agreed 100% - I've only got 2 NW terrestrials, my other species are OW's - arboreal and fossorial, I feel fossorial sp. are a great way to begin your OW venture.

But at the same time Heteropoda tend to be rather "not so bulky" compared to tarantulas. Doesn't exactly answer the question but just wanted to throw that in

Ha - Heteropoda are bulky - and they're bloody fast, not as fast as true spiders but still, I wouldn't want one escaping and that's a fact.

Psalmopoeus is usually the best advised stepping stone genus before any OW

Yes Psalmo's are considered to be one of the fastest NW arboreal sp. I don't know where Avics come into the equation, but IME they've never been anywhere nearly as fast as a Psalmopoeus.

True spiders would be a good way to learn regarding speed, but OW's to me just aren't that difficult or dangerous, as long as you tread carefully and always expect the unexpected.

 

[basin79]

I've always got a catch cup at the ready for any feeding, maintenance, no matter which spider it may be!

Without question, the speed that true spiders move is unbelievable, "teleport - understatement".

My Poecilotheria would always rather hide than bolt, I can't comment on Cnetid, having never seen them, but I'll take your word on that.

Agreed 100% - I've only got 2 NW terrestrials, my other species are OW's - arboreal and fossorial, I feel fossorial sp. are a great way to begin your OW venture.

Ha - Heteropoda are bulky - and they're bloody fast, not as fast as true spiders but still, I wouldn't want one escaping and that's a fact.

Yes Psalmo's are considered to be one of the fastest NW arboreal sp. I don't know where Avics come into the equation, but IME they've never been anywhere nearly as fast as a Psalmopoeus.

True spiders would be a good way to learn regarding speed, but OW's to me just aren't that difficult or dangerous, as long as you tread carefully and always expect the unexpected.

True spiders are way faster and unpredictable. Most of the times my tarantulas will always run "home". True spiders just go crazy in my experience.

That typed you should still own some trues. Stunners.

Heteropoda lunula.