Was the mentioning of those dealers an example? Or did they literally sold those before illegally?? Never seen them on Undergroundreptiles before. They're not the best when it comes to quality inverts, but I have talked to their staff before. UGR (Undergroundreptiles) do have import licenses as far as I am aware and they do import legally in mass numbers. Which is why I back from them most of the time because I seek CB specimens more. But do they really illegally have those?? I can't say I know their staff personally, but I email and communicate them once in a long time. They don't seem like the type of shady "brown boxing". I can agree their not the best when it comes to care or quality for inverts (which is why I never buy inverts from them). But I can say that some of their WC imports are for the better in terms of helping with CB specimens (reptiles/amphibians). Because some experienced herps collectors are breeding more rare reptiles in captivity thanks to their contribution for importing them. While it's not their best intentions for WC specimens to be sold as "pets". They actually respect the WC numbers and obey the limit of how many can be imported legally, unlike other importers. If UGR have been have been selling those, I will literally ask them about it.
Check their website under inverts, I just looked at it and they have some extatoma tiaratum aka giant prickly stick insects. I don’t know about reptiles but to be honest I’m a bit unsure if they have a proper facility to keep exotic stick insects and whatnot but this is based off of my opinion and knowledge. Other than the two websites I mentioned I’ve seen leaf insects and exotic stag/rhino beetles offered for sale on eBay frequently.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I know Australia banned exports/imports of anything. But whatever was last exported from Australia a long time ago is now CB outside their country. So technically it should be legal to own/sell them as long as their not imported from Australia. I don't believe these are illegal to own right??? Since the ones being for sale are CB specimens on their site. I know that they their facility is large, but I can't say if they even have enough room for all their animals. I know their larger reptiles and tropical animals are kept outside their facility in outdoor enclosures since they're located in Florida where it's warm. I don't know about ebay and exotic beetles being sold on there but that's very shady for sure.
Any exotic stick insect is illegal to own whether or not they’re captive bred or not. They are all listed as plant peats and some are parthenogenetic and can reproduce without a male. It’s sort of a recurring element that I’ve seen among the forums and internet, I’ve seem them being offered more and more frequently like exotic mantids. To keep exotic stick insects you need the proper facility which is generally reserved for zoos and museums. Even so, and someone correct me if I’m wrong, there are specific ways to get rid of their waste to prevent any eggs from slipping through. Captive bred individuals as mentioned before are still illegal no matter what unless you have the proper permits for it. Also if you need some proof of how destructice they can be I beliece that a population of indian stick insects established themselves in California when they were accidentally released.
Can we stop encouraging people to buy illegal pets please.
It does not matter if they are CB, all phasmids are illegal. I know this even though I'm Dutch
You are correct about the Indian stick insect invasion. I have been told by the USDA that they are not even granting permits to the average containment facility since that species became so prolific. The typical method for preventing accidental dissemination of eggs involves either autoclaving or freezing at -20F for a minimum of 3 days.
If you look hard enough, then you can find many other illegal items for sale. Just because it is for sale is no indication of legality. Also, I make a point of alerting people to the illegality of owning most exotic insects whenever I see a thread like this come up. I think it is worse to keep phasmids than mantids, but I try to make sure mantid owners are aware of the regulations. I would not call my warnings about phasmids hostile as I do not plan to report any phasmid owners to the USDA, but I try to give the same warnings about mantids, beetles, and other exotics.
I like how two people who agreed with this post have "mantis" in their username
There are quite a lot of mantis species native to the US so people can easily keep mantids without breaking the law.
Ok, and one of those users has an exotic flower mantis as their profile pic.
And yet, despite your snark, all non-native walking sticks remain illegal in the US, in addition to a plethora of other inverts.
What are you implying when you said that? The onyl reason why I have the word mantis in my username is because the first pet insect that i had a was a baby chinese mantis. I’ve been abstaining from all exotic mantids for 3 years now; I literally destroyed my entire collection of exotic mantids by crushing each individual mantis and I soaked all of the ootheca I had in alcohol for days before disposing of it. It was disturbing for me and I’m trying my best to stay away from keeping exotic mantids but there’s not that many interesting or easily accessable native species. Please just don’t assume anything and as for @The Mantis Menagerie just because you have a profiel photo of an exotic pseudocreobotra doesn’t necessarily mean that you support them.
That Pseudocreobotra ocellata nymph was the last exotic mantis I kept. It took me over a year to get a straight answer as to whether or not they were illegal, and I kept a few exotics in that time. Also, as I recall, we have had this discussion before, and I mentioned that I do not keep them for the legal restrictions. I am trying to obtain the approval on a containment facility, so I cannot break any regulations.
I posted two images in the "insects" category of the gallery on this site. One was me holding a comet moth. The other one was a L3 Megasoma elephas grub. Both of these photos were taken in that containment facility.
I could not have done that to my little mantids. I just froze the ones that died from mismolt or similar issues, and I think I still have some nymphs in the freezer (it has been over a year). I was lucky enough to have the aforementioned containment facility nearby to donate the others to.