E. truculentus Pairing Log

[EulersK]

Cool, I hope you get the Sacs

I'm very much considering pairing them again. They're tapping at each other nearly every night, and I've yet to find a taker for your male. I've reached out to everyone I trust, and I've come up with nothing.

 

[sdsnybny]

I'm very much considering pairing them again. They're tapping at each other nearly every night, and I've yet to find a taker for your male. I've reached out to everyone I trust, and I've come up with nothing.

You are the only person I could find with an adult female listed/posted on AB, good luck.

 

[EulersK]

Time for an update, I think.

Here's a recap. She was freshly molted, and paired on September 9/16. I'm absolutely certain of an insertion. He was quite forward, and she was more than receptive. She began eating like a horse, and she started refusing food about three weeks ago. She's also gotten quite lethargic yet defensive, very uncharacteristic. She's acting almost like premolt, but very doubtful given the timeframe. She was always a scurrier, never a fighter. Here she is today, again refusing food.


I've begun to raise the humidity a bit on her, but temperatures are largely staying the same. I can't seem to find a detailed breeding log, so if anyone has environmental tips on her, I'd be willing to hear them out.

 

[KezyGLA]

This was excellent to see. What a species and there should be more of them indeed.

Nice one @EulersK !!

 

[KezyGLA]

Time for an update, I think.

Here's a recap. She was freshly molted, and paired on September 9/16. I'm absolutely certain of an insertion. He was quite forward, and she was more than receptive. She began eating like a horse, and she started refusing food about three weeks ago. She's also gotten quite lethargic yet defensive, very uncharacteristic. She's acting almost like premolt, but very doubtful given the timeframe. She was always a scurrier, never a fighter. Here she is today, again refusing food.
View attachment 227054

I've begun to raise the humidity a bit on her, but temperatures are largely staying the same. I can't seem to find a detailed breeding log, so if anyone has environmental tips on her, I'd be willing to hear them out.

Yup! She is looking good. They have a slightly longer shape abdomen generally. Your gal looks the right shape

 

[sdsnybny]

Hows this girl doing @EulersK ?

 

[EulersK]

Hows this girl doing @EulersK ?

She has become very lethargic after going through an excavation period for a few weeks. She's refused food since the last update, and she's fat. I'm hoping for a sac soon, it's definitely been long enough.

 

[sdsnybny]

Cool, the extra digging is a good sign. My truculentus hardly ever do more than fill the water dish happily sitting out in the open.

 

[BobBarley]

She has become very lethargic after going through an excavation period for a few weeks. She's refused food since the last update, and she's fat. I'm hoping for a sac soon, it's definitely been long enough.

Hah, good luck! If she's anything like my rosea, you may be waiting a looooooong time... (I've sorta given up on my female by now lol, but who knows, she may still drop a sac)

On this note, it seems you have the "crystal variant" of truculentus? https://sites.google.com/site/chiletarantulas/euathlus-trucullentus-1
(However, it doesn't look like the "crystal variant" they have on the website nor does it look like the blue-violet one.)

 

[EulersK]

Cool, the extra digging is a good sign. My truculentus hardly ever do more than fill the water dish happily sitting out in the open.

The only part that's a tad worrying is that she's just sitting with her face in the corner at all hours. No stress curl, just face down in the corner. And like I said, very lethargic. She's always been a bit skittish.

 

[EulersK]

Hah, good luck! If she's anything like my rosea, you may be waiting a looooooong time... (I've sorta given up on my female by now lol, but who knows, she may still drop a sac)

On this note, it seems you have the "crystal variant" of truculentus? https://sites.google.com/site/chiletarantulas/euathlus-trucullentus-1

Those pictures don't really look like E. truculentus to me, but rather E. sp. "Green" or "Blue". Notice how mine completely lacks the stripes on the knees and has an emerald coloration on the carapace and femurs. On top of that, she has a red tuft at the base of her abdomen (much more noticable on the male).

 

[BobBarley]

Those pictures don't really look like E. truculentus to me, but rather E. sp. "Green" or "Blue". Notice how mine completely lacks the stripes on the knees and has an emerald coloration on the carapace and femurs. On top of that, she has a red tuft at the base of her abdomen (much more noticable on the male).

Hm, I dunno, you could be right. Could you link the paper that formally describes truculentus? I've been searching for the better part of 20 min and can't find anything.

 

[BobBarley]

I really don't know if the person on the website I linked is ID'ing wrong or something else, however, the closest species I could find to your specimens is Euathlus manicata...

https://sites.google.com/site/chiletarantulas/paraphysa-scrofa-molina-1788

Apparently, according to the site, it has a unique defensive posture...
(translated to English)
"It's a tarantula medium sized, somewhat nervous but not aggressive temperament and acquires, different from the rest of the Chilean species, you sewed on stretching the legs and lift the abdomen very particular defensive posture, keeping the tense posture until it moves away the risk."

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Regarding the IDs of all these Chilean Euathlus species in the pet trade...

What is bought and sold as Euathlus pulcherrimaklassi "Blue" or "Green" is also called Euathlus sp. "Blue" or "Green" and is most likely Euathlus truculentus.

What is bought and sold as Euathlus truculentus (as pictured here) is most likely an undescribed Euathlus sp. Although I still really need my hands on these to confirm if the spermatheca or palpal bulb morphology resembles that of E. truculentus.

What is bought and sold (although rarely) as Aphonopelma abberrans is actually an undescribed Euathlus sp. This one is interesting as you see on that Chilean tarantula site that it has basically the same papal bulb and spermatheca morphology as E. truculentus.

What is bought and sold as Euathlus sp. "Red" and "Yellow" are actually undescribed species of Homoeomma. Not Euathlus at all.

Instead of writing out every reason why this is, head over to the World Spider Catalog and start with these articles. Compare the descriptions and notes in these articles with the pictures over at the Chilean Tarantulas web site. I will say though I use the phrase "most likely" here because the Chilean Euathlus species really need a revision to make positive IDs more determinate.

Perafán, C. & Pérez-Miles, F. (2014b). The Andean tarantulas Euathlus Ausserer, 1875, Paraphysa Simon, 1892 and Phrixotrichus Simon, 1889 (Araneae: Theraphosidae): phylogenetic analysis, genera redefinition and new species descriptions. Journal of Natural History48(39-40): 2389-2418.

Legendre, R. & Calderón G., R. (1984). Liste systématique des araignées mygalomorphes du Chili. Bulletin du Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle de Paris (4) 6(A): 1021-1065.

Pérez-Miles, F., Lucas, S. M., Silva Jr., P. I. da & Bertani, R. (1996). Systematic revision and cladistic analysis of Theraphosinae (Araneae: Theraphosidae). Mygalomorph1: 33-68.

 

[BobBarley]

Regarding the IDs of all these Chilean Euathlus species in the pet trade...

What is bought and sold as Euathlus pulcherrimaklassi "Blue" or "Green" is also called Euathlus sp. "Blue" or "Green" and is most likely Euathlus truculentus.

What is bought and sold as Euathlus truculentus (as pictured here) is most likely an undescribed Euathlus sp. Although I still really need my hands on these to confirm if the spermatheca or palpal bulb morphology resembles that of E. truculentus.

What is bought and sold (although rarely) as Aphonopelma abberrans is actually an undescribed Euathlus sp. This one is interesting as you see on that Chilean tarantula site that it has basically the same papal bulb and spermatheca morphology as E. truculentus.

What is bought and sold as Euathlus sp. "Red" and "Yellow" are actually undescribed species of Homoeomma. Not Euathlus at all.

Instead of writing out every reason why this is, head over to the World Spider Catalog and start with these articles. Compare the descriptions and notes in these articles with the pictures over at the Chilean Tarantulas web site. I will say though I use the phrase "most likely" here because the Chilean Euathlus species really need a revision to make positive IDs more determinate.

Perafán, C. & Pérez-Miles, F. (2014b). The Andean tarantulas Euathlus Ausserer, 1875, Paraphysa Simon, 1892 and Phrixotrichus Simon, 1889 (Araneae: Theraphosidae): phylogenetic analysis, genera redefinition and new species descriptions. Journal of Natural History48(39-40): 2389-2418.

Legendre, R. & Calderón G., R. (1984). Liste systématique des araignées mygalomorphes du Chili. Bulletin du Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle de Paris (4) 6(A): 1021-1065.

Pérez-Miles, F., Lucas, S. M., Silva Jr., P. I. da & Bertani, R. (1996). Systematic revision and cladistic analysis of Theraphosinae (Araneae: Theraphosidae). Mygalomorph1: 33-68.

Thank you so much! Here's what I was able to gauge (specifically about Euathlus truculentus) based off of two of the three articles...

1) From "Perafán, C. & Pérez-Miles, F. (2014b). The Andean tarantulas Euathlus Ausserer, 1875, Paraphysa Simon, 1892 and Phrixotrichus Simon, 1889 (Araneae: Theraphosidae): phylogenetic analysis, genera redefinition and new species descriptions. Journal of Natural History48(39-40): 2389-2418." :

"Differs from other Euathlus species by the presence of few labial cuspules (< 20)."

2) From "Pérez-Miles, F., Lucas, S. M., Silva Jr., P. I. da & Bertani, R. (1996). Systematic revision and cladistic analysis of Theraphosinae (Araneae: Theraphosidae). Mygalomorph1: 33-68."

The article provided a sketch of the spermatheca of Euathlus truculentus in figure 19. Which differs greatly from what the Chilean Tarantulas website has posted as a Euathlus truculentus's spermacetha.


However, getting back to @EulersK 's specimens, what should we be naming these most likely undescribed species in the hobby? Should we just continue with "Euathlus truculentus"?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Thank you so much! Here's what I was able to gauge (specifically about Euathlus truculentus) based off of two of the three articles...

1) From "Perafán, C. & Pérez-Miles, F. (2014b). The Andean tarantulas Euathlus Ausserer, 1875, Paraphysa Simon, 1892 and Phrixotrichus Simon, 1889 (Araneae: Theraphosidae): phylogenetic analysis, genera redefinition and new species descriptions. Journal of Natural History48(39-40): 2389-2418." :

"Differs from other Euathlus species by the presence of few labial cuspules (< 20)."

2) From "Pérez-Miles, F., Lucas, S. M., Silva Jr., P. I. da & Bertani, R. (1996). Systematic revision and cladistic analysis of Theraphosinae (Araneae: Theraphosidae). Mygalomorph1: 33-68."

The article provided a sketch of the spermatheca of Euathlus truculentus in figure 19. Which differs greatly from what the Chilean Tarantulas website has posted as a Euathlus truculentus's spermacetha.


However, getting back to @EulersK 's specimens, what should we be naming these most likely undescribed species in the hobby? Should we just continue with "Euathlus truculentus"?

Now you see why I used "most likely" for the ID of what is supposedly the real E. truculentus. It is my opinion that the spermatheca drawing is based on an immature female. I dissected the spermatheca of an immature female "E. pulcherrimaklassi" and it resembles the drawing but it isn't an exact match. When these blue or green Euathlus species grow up, the spermatheca become fused and more sceloritized as you see in the Chile Tarantulas site. Also, the number of labial cuspules are greater than 20.

As far as what to call the hobby E. truculentus, I don't have a better suggestion. As far as I know, the name is pretty consistent with the spider being bought and sold so there isn't really a risk of hybridizing or a lot of confusion as to what is what. I say just leave the naming as-is.

 

[BobBarley]

Now you see why I used "most likely" for the ID of what is supposedly the real E. truculentus. It is my opinion that the spermatheca drawing is based on an immature female. I dissected the spermatheca of an immature female "E. pulcherrimaklassi" and it resembles the drawing but it isn't an exact match. When these blue or green Euathlus species grow up, the spermatheca become fused and more sceloritized as you see in the Chile Tarantulas site. Also, the number of labial cuspules are greater than 20.

Yeah, I understand now. *sigh* I guess more research is imperative with all these a Chilean localities and species.

As far as what to call the hobby E. truculentus, I don't have a better suggestion. As far as I know, the name is pretty consistent with the spider being bought and sold so there isn't really a risk of hybridizing or a lot of confusion as to what is what. I say just leave the naming as-is.

Perhaps something along the lines of Euathlus truculentus "Hobby Form"? It would just be annoying, say in the future, the real truculentus enters the hobby and gets muddled with the "truculentus" that is currently in the hobby.

 

[EulersK]

Now this is a conversation worth having. Nice change of pace from what we've seen on the boards lately.

What is bought and sold as Euathlus pulcherrimaklassi "Blue" or "Green" is also called Euathlus sp. "Blue" or "Green" and is most likely Euathlus truculentus.

Absolutely. I bought an "E. pulcherrimaklassi" a couple years ago, and it looks exactly like the E. truculentus that @BobBarley linked us to. I find it strange that this is a formally described species in the wild, but has adopted an entirely different name in the hobby. Quite irritating. I've got my spider labeled as both E. pulcherrimaklassi and E. sp. "Green" to help remind me of the circumstances.

What is bought and sold as Euathlus truculentus (as pictured here) is most likely an undescribed Euathlus sp. Although I still really need my hands on these to confirm if the spermatheca or palpal bulb morphology resembles that of E. truculentus.

Same as with my "E. pulcherrimaklassi", I'll be sure to send you an exuvia when she molts. Lets just hope that's after the sac. Could you use anything else from her? I'll of course have plenty of sling exuvia given the sac is viable. (Edit for clarity) I'll send you my E. truculentus exuvia, the girl that this thread is about.

As far as what to call the hobby E. truculentus, I don't have a better suggestion. As far as I know, the name is pretty consistent with the spider being bought and sold so there isn't really a risk of hybridizing or a lot of confusion as to what is what. I say just leave the naming as-is.

This does leave a lot to be desired, though. If someone manages to import a proper E. truculentus, there's a lot of careless breeding that could go on. Had we not had this conversation, I would have never known any of this. Granted, what we call E. truculentus and E. sp. "Green" look wildly different, but the point stands.

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

I had an Euathlus truculentus up until a week ago when I was told that it was an Euathlus manicata dark form! I have been told here that I had an hobby E. truculentus but it turns out that it's not, according to enthusiasts from Chile. There's a great chilean guy on a FB-group that goes on lots of field expeditions and takes photographs of tarantulas in situ. I tried to get him on here to start a proper "Chilean tarantulas" thread, he said he would but I haven't seen him around.



Here's a native site with some nice intel. It is a few years old though > http://tarantulaschilenasfichas.blogspot.no/search/label/Euathlus

And this one which you probably have seen already > https://sites.google.com/site/chiletarantulas

 

[EulersK]

I had an Euathlus truculentus up until a week ago when I was told that it was an Euathlus manicata dark form! I have been told here that I had an hobby E. truculentus but it turns out that it's not, according to enthusiasts from Chile. There's a great chilean guy on a FB-group that goes on lots of field expeditions and takes photographs of tarantulas in situ. I tried to get him on here to start a proper "Chilean tarantulas" thread, he said he would but I haven't seen him around.

View attachment 264616

Here's a native site with some nice intel. It is a few years old though > http://tarantulaschilenasfichas.blogspot.no/search/label/Euathlus

Yeah, it's pretty well known that the hobby E. truculentus is certainly not a true E. truculentus. But we keep the moniker for the sake of breeding and avoiding a possible cross-breeding.