E. truculentus Pairing Log

[ThisMeansWAR]

Yeah, it's pretty well known that the hobby E. truculentus is certainly not a true E. truculentus. But we keep the moniker for the sake of breeding and avoiding a possible cross-breeding.

Yeah, I'm fully aware. The hobby one is most likely Bumba pulcherrimaklaasi, the "blue/green femur". But mine which I was told was the hobby form E. truculentus is actually an E. manicata judging from the appearance as well as the spermatecha (see attached).



Edit: @EulersK - the female you are breeding does look a lot like my manicata. Not to stick my nose in your business and with all due respect, maybe reconsider breeding since the whole genus is so uncertain?

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

I found this, pretty useful. Especially if you understand some German (bonus point to any German peeps willing to translate!)

Schmidt, G. (1993c). To distinguish the females of the Chilean Paraphysa species (Araneida: Theraphosidae: Theraphosinae) - p. 7-8

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

Please forgive me if I'm spamming here but it is a very interesting topic.

From Schmidt, G. (1997g). Bestimmungsschlüssel für die Gattungen der Unterfamilie Theraphosinae (Araneae: Theraphosidae). Arachnologisches Magazin 3(Sonderausgabe)

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

Euathlus makes my head hurt.

Now I see a detail in the taxonomy history:

Paraphysa scrofa Schmidt, 1997g: 16, f. 69-70, 72 (mf; N.B.: not f. 71, = Thrixopelma pruriens).

Meaning that Schmidt was wrong and what I posted earlier is erroneous. My head is about to explode.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I had an Euathlus truculentus up until a week ago when I was told that it was an Euathlus manicata dark form! I have been told here that I had an hobby E. truculentus but it turns out that it's not, according to enthusiasts from Chile. There's a great chilean guy on a FB-group that goes on lots of field expeditions and takes photographs of tarantulas in situ. I tried to get him on here to start a proper "Chilean tarantulas" thread, he said he would but I haven't seen him around.

View attachment 264616

Here's a native site with some nice intel. It is a few years old though > http://tarantulaschilenasfichas.blogspot.no/search/label/Euathlus

And this one which you probably have seen already > https://sites.google.com/site/chiletarantulas

That's interesting you got an ID of your hobby E. truculentus as a dark form of Euathlus manicata. Perafan & Perez-Miles 2014 distinguishes E. manicata from all other Euathlus species by possessing spiniform setae on the inside bottom of the coxae and outside bottom maxillae. The paper doesn't say which leg coxae the spiniform setae appear on though. Is it all leg coxae or just coxae 1 I wonder. Since you have a molt, it would be cool to check for that character on your pet trade Euathlus truculentus to confirm the ID given to you.

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

Since you have a molt, it would be cool to check for that character on your pet trade Euathlus truculentus to confirm the ID given to you.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "check for that character on my pet trade Euathlus".

EDIT: Ah! Now I understand what you mean. Check for the setae on that molt... I wasn't able to keep the exuviae but I can have a look at my specimen with a magnifying glass under good lighting... then again, I have found enough spermatheca references so the setae might not be necessary?

If you mean - cross check my photo with the sp. descriptions? I have found several spermatheca descriptions. Here, I went through all of the literature and dug up the confirmed correct ones on manicata

Schmidt, G. (1993)

Schmidt, G. (1993)

Legendre, R. & Calderón G., R. (1984)

Schiapelli, R. D. & Gerschman de P., B. S. (1963)


My specimen, sold to me as Eauthlus truculentus.

It would be awesome if someone else here with a supposed truculentus has a shot of the spermatheca!

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

But what I read now - the E. manicata supposedly has a unique defense mechanism - a couple of times I have observed this. She lowers her prosoma, stretches leg pair I forward and raises the opisthosoma by at least 60 degrees (personal observation). Now if the source is credible in that it is unique for the manicata then that is definitely what I have. Feels special to ID species on body language! Source: Rubén Montenegro Vargas - Tarantulas de Chile

On the manicata - Google translated from spanish:

It is a medium size tarantula, somewhat nervous but not aggressive temperament and acquires a very particular defensive posture, different from the rest of the Chilean species, which [sewed on] stretching the legs and lifting the abdomen, maintaining that tense posture until it moves away the risk. In the most cordilleran areas it is common to observe dark specimens, which usually lack the typical coloration of this species. For years this species has been commercialized and identified as Euatlus truculentus , but neither the geographic distribution, nor the morphology of the palpable bulbs of the males nor the spermatheca of the females agree with the description of E. truculentus (Roland Legendre and Raul Calderón, 1984).

 

[EulersK]

Edit: @EulersK - the female you are breeding does look a lot like my manicata. Not to stick my nose in your business and with all due respect, maybe reconsider breeding since the whole genus is so uncertain?

You may have gotten confused because of the date - I paired this spider on January 22nd... of last year. She's still gravid, hasn't molted. That ship has sailed. Even back then, I planned on literally labeling them as "E. truculentus*" with the asterisk pointing to basically this information.

 

[ThisMeansWAR]

Since you have a molt, it would be cool to check for that character on your pet trade Euathlus truculentus to confirm the ID given to you.

Ah! Now I understand what you mean. Check for the setae on that molt...

You may have gotten confused because of the date - I paired this spider on January 22nd... of last year. She's still gravid, hasn't molted. That ship has sailed. Even back then, I planned on literally labeling them as "E. truculentus*" with the asterisk pointing to basically this information.

Gravid for a year... crazy long wait! But yeah, I saw. I should have written something like "reconsider rearing them" as in they-might-be-frankensteins and actually two different Euathlus sp.
But I take it back. I think both of yours are E. manicata, a chilean source of mine with experience in the field can confirm.