Complaint about the community

[Tanner Dzula]

Aside from the lolz in this thread for all the right reasons I just wanted to comment on this particular line of thought. That's all fine and good with YOU as the customer. Or myself (I have no interest in hybrids, to be clear). The problem quickly rears its ugly head when someone buys a hybrid, knowingly, but then sells it as something it is not for whatever reason (hard to sell hybrids afaik) or breeds it and sells specimens. Those people then perhaps thinks it's something else if they weren't told it's a hybrid (or maybe they aren't as disciplined as other people) and breed it. Then those hybrids are sold on to the market, maybe even as a color variation to explain any differences between known species, where they are purchased and possibly bred further by accident.

Unless you know exactly who you are selling to and know that they won't sell or breed it then it's simply not worth the risk imo. Short of some of the OT'rs, some of the professionals, and a small handful of newer members I can't think of anyone I'd feel 100% ok selling a hybrid to...and chances are they wouldn't be interested anyway and for good reason Even if I trusted them 99% that's not enough.

agreed. the only time i feel it would be okay to make a hybrid(and i use the word/term okay VERY VERY VERY loosely) is if the owner was willing(and able)_ to keep all the specimens and raise them, without giving away or selling them ever, IE a very dedicated hobbiest who already has a large number of T's, (IE: hundreds or thousands,) who has the stability to know that they would never be out of their hands.

i still don't think it should be done. but for the specific purposes of see the results, if it could be done without exposure to other people, then mehh. i know a few people who could manage it, but tbh. still not something that should be done.

 

[KezyGLA]

@viper69 incoming in 5....4....3..


EDIT: he's already here. This will be entertaining.

 

[viper69]

@viper69 incoming in 5....4....3..


EDIT: he's already here. This will be entertaining.

All I know is all your time on AB should result in your town being renamed Sac City de T. cyano.

 

[KezyGLA]

I saw the alerts with your name on other theeads. This thread was right up your street. My Viper senses were tingling.

 

[Blue Jaye]

So, I just have to get this off my chest, because it's really bothering me.

The vast majority of the hobby has been almost hostile to me based on my desire to breed my tarantulas.
And before you say more, let me just say.

I wasn't going to sell them. (Unless I was 100% sure I knew what they were) And I was only going to trade them with the understanding they could be hybrids.
Now that that's said, onwards.

I am a bit of a risk taker, yes. Do I know what I'm doing? Hell no.
But I'm in Costa Rica, I'm not going to be including any species into the hobby in the states anytime soon, let alone ever.

People play with the genetics of snakes to get emoji markings all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

But, here's the thing. If I didn't have my friend who got me into this hobby. I'd have let all my tarantulas go because of the absolute hostility about this.
Maybe I asked for it by mentioning. However Ihad hoped to impress people that I could do something that sometimes even pros have trouble with.

So, there. I just wanted to say that.

What you find hostile actually is not. It is an entire community in user over something so irresponsible. You are doing something that just shouldn't be done. Just because you think it is cool doesn't mean it is. I personally am appalled at your lack of respect for the animals themselves not to mention the hobby. Because you live in Costa Rica doesn't mean they won't end up in the US or Europe. Giving them or selling them is also a real problem as you can't guarantee that they won't breed or sell them. So you can't actually trade them or sell them. So what will you do with all those spiderlings. Keep them? Kill them? You don't really have other choices. So again it makes what you are doing irresponsible.

Then you say if it weren't for your friend you would have let all your tarantulas go. Let them go!!! Again extremely irresponsible! If you don't get your location right, you have a real potential of screwing up the genetics of wild populations. Theses are the reason people are being hostile to you about what you are doing. It's just plain irresponsible and wrong. You even stated you don't know what you are doing. Then why would you before you have the proper information. You didn't ask for it by mentioning it. You asked for it by doing it in the first place. We are lucky you mentioned it, we can watch out for the things you might sell or give away so we don't end up with your tarantulas.
You say that nobody blinks an eye to the color morphing of snakes. You are quite wrong about that. I used to be heavy into reptiles was in fact a breeder. But when the color morphs and attitudes of people thinking they were so awesome because they bred morphs and reptiles I am one of many that got out of reptiles all together. Again I find it irresponsible to change an animals make up just because we can and for the dollar amount. With the wild caught populations dwindling as fast as they are, it's just imo the wrong thing to do. I believe one should appreciate things the way they are.

 

[viper69]

I saw the alerts with your name on other theeads. This thread was right up your street. My Viper senses were tingling.

My man, you are too funny today! I'm glad you are on the board, and hope you stay a very long time.

 

[Timc]

Now, I am not defending the OP but the one important word I've missed in reading this entire thread is "culling". Some people touched on it before, but to think many of these spiders exist in the hobby as they exist in the wild is simply foolish. Inbreeding has produced some beautiful specimens but it is unnatural (I do not use the word 'wrong' deliberately). Even wild animals have natural instincts to prevent this (IE: humans with our sense of smell) which, actually, prevents more inbreeding than hybridization, in nature. Now, to think that because something sells in the hobby (certain or exaggerated color forms, for example) won't lead breeders to seek out those traits is, once again, foolish. This leads me to my ultimate point, which would be regulations (for breeders) and paperwork (for spiders). I'm not a fan of people who are "experienced members of forums" but have zero biological experience breeding. Now, we are in a niche hobby, and "reliable" people come at a premium, but that is no excuse to keep a "species" alive when it is not the actual species in question. I say let the species die off. Man is natural and is not nature. If we are foolhardy enough to extinguish our natural surroundings, that is on us and no "species" should survive because of it. If we, as a hobby, would rather keep some bastardized "species" going, then that is no worse than hybridizing. In a sense we will have created something just as bad (Brachypelma sp. homo) as the thing we all disdain in this hobby.

I'm short, hobby form specimens are just as bad as hybrid specimens, as our culling of spiders has created something less natural than possible hybrids, which, after all, is the basis of evolution.

 

[Moakmeister]

Please put the sac in the fridge.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

Please put the sac in the fridge.

literally this. easiest and simplest option in this situation.

 

[Thistles]

Please put the sac in the fridge.

No sac yet, and I don't think she's actually paired two different species. This just makes her doubling down and defense of hybridization all the more bizarre, imo. I bet she's actually disappointed they're the same thing now, lol. How did laziness get us to this crazy place?

 

[KezyGLA]

My man, you are too funny today! I'm glad you are on the board, and hope you stay a very long time.

Here to stay, compadre

Please put the sac in the fridge.

Not possible yet. I wouldnt advise it to be honest. MM A. burica are pretty distinctive as a native to Costa Rica. The only other species that looks kind of similar is D. pentaloris MM but has tiger rump. Burica are also extremely hard to come by in the hobby (Europe anyway). I believe she got lucky and paired him right Although she jumped in way too quick to breed. She just got a bit of a bashing, took it to heart and I believe learned a leason here.

To be honest I wish her success. Every day is a school day and she will only gain good experience having done this. I might not agree that it should have been done like that. Though if she gets a medium/small amount of fertile eggs and they make it to slings they could well be worth raising them.

No sac yet, and I don't think she's actually paired two different species. This just makes her doubling down and defense of hybridization all the more bizarre, imo. I bet she's actually disappointed they're the same thing now, lol. How did laziness get us to this crazy place?

Yeah, I think panic mode was initiated and the response wasnt really thought out. It can be overwhelming for new people here. But whats done is done, eh

 

[Arachnomaniac19]

Oh, ok. I'd call that a subspecies, but ok.

Subspecies and locales are two different things. Take dart frogs and chameleons for example.

 

[D Sherlod]

If you hybridized reptiles or mamals or birds .....you get a handful of off spring ...a speck in the grand scheme of things.

If you hybridized T's ,,,you end up with hundreds to thousands of off spring........ an ocean in a very small hobby

 

[Grimmdreadly]

Here to stay, compadre



Not possible yet. I wouldnt advise it to be honest. MM A. burica are pretty distinctive as a native to Costa Rica. The only other species that looks kind of similar is D. pentaloris MM but has tiger rump. Burica are also extremely hard to come by in the hobby (Europe anyway). I believe she got lucky and paired him right Although she jumped in way too quick to breed. She just got a bit of a bashing, took it to heart and I believe learned a leason here.

To be honest I wish her success. Every day is a school day and she will only gain good experience having done this. I might not agree that it should have been done like that. Though if she gets a medium/small amount of fertile eggs and they make it to slings they could well be worth raising them.



Yeah, I think panic mode was initiated and the response wasnt really thought out. It can be overwhelming for new people here. But whats done is done, eh

I hadn't even heard of A.Burica so if that's what both the male and female are, and the pairing is successful, then I wish her the best of luck

 

[gypsy cola]

I'm the type of guy who likes to fight for the underdog. No matter how wrong that guy is I'm going to support him because it is challenging.

This ain't a David v Goliath story, this is Don Quixote! There isn't anyone who will help you fight that windmill.


I'm sorry pal, I appreciate the effort but you have to understand...we already are having issues with hybrids. Look up b.vagans hybrid and you will see the mess. Offering hybrids is like offering termites to a home owner. Why? Just please do some research.

 

[Nephila Edulis]

You're more likely to end up with a dead tarantula than successful hybrid babies. Look at some other hybrid animals, (ligers especially) many have birth defects and most die young. I wouldn't be breeding hybrids, it's just not good for anybody in my mind

 

[Hobo]

Points have been made, closing the hybrid thread.