Complaint about the community

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Kat Maehl

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
19
So, I just have to get this off my chest, because it's really bothering me.

The vast majority of the hobby has been almost hostile to me based on my desire to breed my tarantulas.
And before you say more, let me just say.

I wasn't going to sell them. (Unless I was 100% sure I knew what they were) And I was only going to trade them with the understanding they could be hybrids.
Now that that's said, onwards.

I am a bit of a risk taker, yes. Do I know what I'm doing? Hell no.
But I'm in Costa Rica, I'm not going to be including any species into the hobby in the states anytime soon, let alone ever.

People play with the genetics of snakes to get emoji markings all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

But, here's the thing. If I didn't have my friend who got me into this hobby. I'd have let all my tarantulas go because of the absolute hostility about this.
Maybe I asked for it by mentioning. However Ihad hoped to impress people that I could do something that sometimes even pros have trouble with.

So, there. I just wanted to say that.
 

grimmjowls

Arachnoknight
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
205
I didn't see what happened, but I will admit, there's a very serious pack mentality on this forum, and if you don't believe what everyone else does, they'll likely chase you down. Don't let that beat down on your hobbies though.

Again, I don't know what this is in reference to, but I know exactly what toxicity you're referencing to.
 

Hellblazer

Arachnosquire
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
134
Hybridization is something that you're not going to get much support for from most people in this hobby. It's not personal, it's just something people (myself included) feel strongly about.
 

basin79

ArachnoGod
Active Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
5,091
The very real problem with hybrid T's is that usually they don't look all that different from either/one of the parents. So there's massive risk that at some point down the line one of the hybrids could be seen sold/given/bred as a genuine pure specimen.

You could give/sell the slings to mates and they'd know. But what happens if they decide to sell. The buyer just nods along and gets a T.

They forget what they where told and post a pic on here asking what T it is. Well it looks just like a (spinning bird kick) and so it becomes one.

That gets bred or sold and suddenly you've got more hybrids.

Personally I don't think there's absolutely no need to hybridise any T or snake.
 

grimmjowls

Arachnoknight
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
205
Ah, yeah, I missed the hybridization part. You're not going to get support for that, and for good reason. It's very damaging to the hobby.
 

Thistles

Arachnobroad
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
623
First, yes, this forum can be extremely toxic. There are other forums that have sprung up just because people can't take the criticism here. I've gone to bat for newer members who were attacked on multiple occasions, but you get no sympathy from me. You received some very mild responses.

I have no problem with you catching a few tarantulas native to where you live.

I have no problem with you learning as you go.

I have no problem with you wanting to breed.

I have a HUGE problem with you trying to breed things you haven't identified, particularly since you're ignoring advice when you do so.

You think it takes a pro to get an insertion from a male tarantula? Where do wild tarantulas come from, then? The animals do all the work. I'm extremely unimpressed by your stubbornness and nonchalance regarding hybrids. This isn't the snake hobby. Tarantulas come in an extraordinary range of colors, sizes, temperaments, you name it. There's no need to dilute the ones we have by hybridizing them. Many people would say the same of snakes, but there is a market for hybrid snakes. There is absolutely NO market for hybrid tarantulas. Do you really think you'll be able to sell or even give away any slings to people in your area? LOL! Why would someone want a mutt when he could go to his backyard and catch a pure adult? There are no breeders where you are because there is no market.

Identify your spiders properly before you breed them. If you find you've crossed species inadvertently and your female produces a sac, freeze it.

Take risks with yourself. Skydive if you want. Don't take risks with animals and ecology.

And don't look for sympathy when your own stupidity elicits legitimate criticism.
 

Ghost56

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
443
Just something to add to @Thistles post.

To my knowledge (using ball pythons as an example) ball pythons are ALL the SAME species, the same as all cats/all dogs. T's on the other hand are not.
 

TarantulaArvind

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
32
So, I just have to get this off my chest, because it's really bothering me.

The vast majority of the hobby has been almost hostile to me based on my desire to breed my tarantulas.
And before you say more, let me just say.

I wasn't going to sell them. (Unless I was 100% sure I knew what they were) And I was only going to trade them with the understanding they could be hybrids.
Now that that's said, onwards.

I am a bit of a risk taker, yes. Do I know what I'm doing? Hell no.
But I'm in Costa Rica, I'm not going to be including any species into the hobby in the states anytime soon, let alone ever.

People play with the genetics of snakes to get emoji markings all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

But, here's the thing. If I didn't have my friend who got me into this hobby. I'd have let all my tarantulas go because of the absolute hostility about this.
Maybe I asked for it by mentioning. However Ihad hoped to impress people that I could do something that sometimes even pros have trouble with.

So, there. I just wanted to say that.
Tarantula (or any other animal) is not there because you want to play god.. This hobby is there so that - 1. Ppl appreciate Ts. 2. Want to learn more about them. 3.get more ppl involved in the hobby. 4. Indirectly help in conservation efforts wrt to Ts.

Whether Ppl on this forum appreciate or not, the Ts are not there for you to play god. They existed well before humans arrived and will exist even after humans become extinct..

By your own admission, you dunno what you are doing. Irrespective of whether your "future prospective hybrids" enter the hobby market or not, it doesn't give you right to hybridise tarantulas to satisfy your own curiosity and /or ego. There's a reason things in nature are as they are.

Also just because Ppl mate two different species in other animals (ur e.g. Of snakes), doesn't make you right to do the same with Ts. What they are doing is wrong(can't comment any further wrt that coz I'm not into snake hobby), and so are you.

If you say you're in love with Ts, you'd value them as they are, and not try something fancy to satiate your own drive..

Ts are not "things" to be fancied, they are creatures to be respected, cherished and protected..

Having said all these, I jus want to add one last thing.. If u already have hybrids(I don't remember reading the previous thread that you're referring to) , plz - 1) don't further hybridise them; 2) don't release them into the wild ; 3) don't release into the hobby in Costa Rica.

Keep them safe with you or give to someone trust worthy you know who'll do the right thing. I wouldn't suggest euthanising them as they are also living creatures and besides their current life is not their mistake..
 
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Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
So, I just have to get this off my chest, because it's really bothering me.

The vast majority of the hobby has been almost hostile to me based on my desire to breed my tarantulas.
And before you say more, let me just say.

I wasn't going to sell them. (Unless I was 100% sure I knew what they were) And I was only going to trade them with the understanding they could be hybrids.
Now that that's said, onwards.

I am a bit of a risk taker, yes. Do I know what I'm doing? Hell no.
But I'm in Costa Rica, I'm not going to be including any species into the hobby in the states anytime soon, let alone ever.

People play with the genetics of snakes to get emoji markings all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

But, here's the thing. If I didn't have my friend who got me into this hobby. I'd have let all my tarantulas go because of the absolute hostility about this.
Maybe I asked for it by mentioning. However Ihad hoped to impress people that I could do something that sometimes even pros have trouble with.

So, there. I just wanted to say that.
When it comes to me, I'm of two minds when it comes to hybridization. On the one hand I have seen two hybrids that I have liked. One of these species I've owned. However I don't support hybridization in the hobby. Mainly because we're dealing with various highly endangered and protected species. The hobby pretty soon may possibly be the only place to find p.metallica, p.ruffilata, B.Hamorri, etc. So muddying the gene pool will only dilute the pure genetics. (barnacles, I just made leap into a political system I hate and don't support)

However, I feel that if someone breeds hybrids, they should let everyone know that they're hybrids if they choose to sell. Mainly because hybrids look really close to either one of their parents. For instance Ive owned 2 P.cambridgi/irminia hybrids. I got them from a breeder who claimed they had so many male irminia that they tried to feed them to their female Cambridgi and boom a sac happened(yeah I don't believe that line of bovine fecal matter either). The offspring are beautiful, but, they're just P.Cambridgi with very vivid orange chevrons and swooshes. If I was unscrupulous I could sell them to someone as P.cambridgi and they wouldn't know. Then they may breed them, and then we would have that many fewer pure P.cams.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from
 

Kat Maehl

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
19
I didn't see what happened, but I will admit, there's a very serious pack mentality on this forum, and if you don't believe what everyone else does, they'll likely chase you down. Don't let that beat down on your hobbies though.

Again, I don't know what this is in reference to, but I know exactly what toxicity you're referencing to.
Mostly it was facebook groups, but I've just given up. To be honest, I don't care anymore.
 

grimmjowls

Arachnoknight
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
205
Mostly it was facebook groups, but I've just given up. To be honest, I don't care anymore.
It's because what you want to do is pretty selfish and damaging. :( People care about these animals and what happens to them in the future. You are one of the many who are threatening the continued existence of the pure species we love and enjoy.
 

Kat Maehl

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
19
It's because what you want to do is pretty selfish and damaging. :( People care about these animals and what happens to them in the future. You are one of the many who are threatening the continued existence of the pure species we love and enjoy.
You all can have your opinions. As everyone deserves. I don't agree, I think hybridization is the future. So, I'm just going to remove myself from this. I'm going to keep what I'm doing, and if anyone dislikes it they don't have to deal with me.

I'm sorry you all are so strongly opinion about it. But, I'll take my own hobby elsewhere.
 

Ghost56

Arachnobaron
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
443
You all can have your opinions. As everyone deserves. I don't agree, I think hybridization is the future. So, I'm just going to remove myself from this. I'm going to keep what I'm doing, and if anyone dislikes it they don't have to deal with me.

I'm sorry you all are so strongly opinion about it. But, I'll take my own hobby elsewhere.
You're being extremely ignorant. Doing this with T's is not anywhere close to the same as doing it with most animals.

Breeding a Tiger and a Lion (which has been done, but results in tons of problems) is essentially what you've possibly done/trying to do.
 

grimmjowls

Arachnoknight
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
205
I am sorry for the future of the Costa Rican species and hobbyists since you refuse to reason with more experienced and informed individuals.
You all can have your opinions. As everyone deserves. I don't agree, I think hybridization is the future. So, I'm just going to remove myself from this. I'm going to keep what I'm doing, and if anyone dislikes it they don't have to deal with me.

I'm sorry you all are so strongly opinion about it. But, I'll take my own hobby elsewhere.
 

Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
The very real problem with hybrid T's is that usually they don't look all that different from either/one of the parents. So there's massive risk that at some point down the line one of the hybrids could be seen sold/given/bred as a genuine pure specimen.

You could give/sell the slings to mates and they'd know. But what happens if they decide to sell. The buyer just nods along and gets a T.

They forget what they where told and post a pic on here asking what T it is. Well it looks just like a (spinning bird kick) and so it becomes one.

That gets bred or sold and suddenly you've got more hybrids.

Personally I don't think there's absolutely no need to hybridise any T or snake.
There is a market for snake hybrids though. Many people like red tailed boas for instance, but don't want to have to deal with a 10-12 foot snake, so they cross breed with Hog Islands and get dwarf red tails. There are people who cross breed the different green tree pythons for certain colourations. People are buying
 

grimmjowls

Arachnoknight
Joined
May 1, 2016
Messages
205
The problem is that his selfish actions will affect more than just him for years to come, and that's disheartening.
 

TarantulaArvind

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
32
I"m sorry you feel that way. But having two scientists as parents they encourage me to explore and experiment. Having spoken to them about this situation they think this idea of pure breeds is ridiculous.
Plz don't tell me either of your parents are biologist..
If they really are biologist they'd know the seriousness of what you intend to do..
 
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Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
I"m sorry you feel that way. But having two scientists as parents they encourage me to explore and experiment. Having spoken to them about this situation they think this idea of pure breeds is ridiculous.
If we were talking humans, dogs, cats, salmon, or the like I'd totally agree. But with tarantulas, too many species are highly endangered/protected. There is too much at stake
 

basin79

ArachnoGod
Active Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
5,091
There is a market for snake hybrids though. Many people like red tailed boas for instance, but don't want to have to deal with a 10-12 foot snake, so they cross breed with Hog Islands and get dwarf red tails. There are people who cross breed the different green tree pythons for certain colourations. People are buying
True red tails don't get anywhere near that size. And GTP's are all GTP's. It's completely different.
 
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