Common Names vs Scientific Names

[Formerphobe]

Get a fish

Ummm, do you not like fish?

 

[Croaton]

lol I do actually but my point is they are simple by comparison.

 

[NikiP]

lol I do actually but my point is they are simple by comparison.

IMO, tarantulas are way more simple if you don't factor in breeding.

If you think simple is slapping a goldfish or a betta in a bowl, then you don't know fish.

 

[Croaton]

Yeah let's start talking about fish now...

I would have used a rock for my example of a suitable pet for that guy if I knew there would be people picking apart the fish thing lol... jesus.

Forget it people, it's all over here

 

[Formerphobe]

lol I do actually but my point is they are simple by comparison.

What NikiP said... probably even more varied and many more difficult to keep, and more so to breed. And the scientific names involved... I shudder to think of it... (I used to keep "botias". I see many of them have undergone significant taxonomic name and description changes...)

 

[NikiP]

(I used to keep "botias". I see many of them have undergone significant taxonomic name and description changes...)

And see! Right here is a perfect example for TaraculasByte. The need for scientific names does exist outside the tarantula hobby

Other then my current mudskipper, I haven't seriously kept fish since '06 & knew exactly what botias were I never kept them, but did keep Pangio kuhlii for a short term. Hateful little things.

 

[Mojo Jojo]

Avicularia versicolor is Avicularia versicolor in all Romanized languages. As a hobbyist in the digital age, this is a good enough answer for me.

But here's another reason. There is a strong relationship between the scientific arachnid community and the hobby arachnid community. Because the science people already had a good naming scheme the hobbyists have adopted the same naming scheme through association. It has now become generally accepted as being part of the hobby.

If you don't want to use scientific names with non-hobbyists, more power to you. You could get away with skipping common names and just use the word tarantula when having a conversation with your friend about about the neat tarantula that you just got at Petco. Likely, they will picture a Brachypelma smithi because they seem to get the most roles on tv and in the movies. And even if you have something else, it probably won't make a difference with your friend.

But if you are going to come to a hobbyist/scientific forum because you want to know why your red knee tarantula isn't thriving you might not get any answers or you might get bad answers. Afterall one of my favorite tarantulas, Megaphobema mesomelas, has red knees, but their proper care would be detrimental to your Brachypelma smithi's health.

 

[jbm150]

The scientific names can be a little daunting in the beginning. I'm from a science background and was used to scientific names for fish so I had something of a headstart but it still took some work. Fortunately, I had an interest beyond "they're all just spiders" and knew that the more I was exposed to the names, the better they'd stick. Took a little work but you're never too old to learn something new.

TaraculasByte, its not about bringing our hobby to the mainstream. If you want to talk about your tarantulas to layfolk, gauge your audience. Use common names because most of the time, they aren't looking for a lecture on the biogeography of a species, keep it light and to the point. But also realize some people are receptive to scientific names and actually take you more seriously if you sound like you know what you're talking about (hopefully you do). I use both when I talk to people and if they push for it, will take the extra second to tell them the pitfalls of common names.

Anyways, as a complete aside, in the hobby, it's completely acceptable to use a few common names. Thought it'd be fun to list them because quite honestly, this thread has pretty much run its course:

GBB or greenbottle blue - we know exactly what you're talking about. These are probably the only iterations of the common name that are acceptable. Species name is a bit cumbersome for regular usage

KB or king baboon - species name Pelinobius muticus is easier to say than previous name, but lots of people still use KB

Rosie
PZB
Any I'm missing?

 

[Sam_Peanuts]

Any I'm missing?

Don't forget about the OBT. Also, I have no idea what PZB stands for.

And personally, I find the usage of shortened scientific names like P. cancerides for example to be easier to remember than the common names which can be sometimes very similar between species.

I've had one for 7 years now and I always confuse the country of the common name with another one.

You can also shorten them even more in some cases and people will still know exactly what your talking about like if you use A. avic.

 

[jbm150]

Don't forget about the OBT. Also, I have no idea what PZB stands for.

And personally, I find the usage of shortened scientific names like P. cancerides for example to be easier to remember than the common names which can be sometimes very similar between species.

I've had one for 7 years now and I always confuse the country of the common name with another one.

You can also shorten them even more in some cases and people will still know exactly what your talking about like if you use A. avic.

Ahh of course lol

PZB = pink zebra booty...i mean beauty

In most cases, for brevity's sake, you can get away with the species name only and get your point across (i.e. "my regalis just ate a cricket"; "that lividum is giving me dirty looks"; "my pulchra is on its back, is it dying?")

 

[High_Rolling_T]

Don't forget about the OBT.

Actually, I find that when you say OBT, some people do know what you're talking about, but you'd be surprised how many people would be confused. For one thing, you will never find a store labeling one an OBT(which in itself I've heard both mean Orange Bitey Thing and Orange Baboon Tarantula). Most likely your common person would know it as a Sunburst baboon, Usambara starburst baboon, Orange sunburst tarantula, and some other combination of the above labels, lol. Those are what I've always seen be used by both dealers and LPS and just people I know to have tarantulas but aren't really part of the online community. For example, if you check Ken the Bug Guy's website(as a well known dealer), you won't find OBT, but you will find Starburst Baboon

 

[Formerphobe]

In most cases, for brevity's sake, you can get away with the species name only and get your point across

Yup. My daughters and I went to a museum yesterday that had an 'insect' exhibit that included some tarantulas. Neither of my daughters supports or condones my T habit. They have zero to minimal interest. But, the museum had the Brachypelma smithi labeled as Euathlus smithii and my youngest daughter picked up on it. (Made mama so proud! )

"Hey mom, they have the smithi labeled wrong! Looks like a Brachy-ma-call-it smithi to me."

Technically, Euathlus is an obsolete genus placement...

As far as common names, I have seen the B. smithi labeled more than one way: Mexican Red Knee, the most common, and Mexican Red Leg which is more usually applied to Brachypelma emelia. When I think of all the tarantulas with red legs and red knees.... Yeah, best to use the scientific name, that way one knows exactly what species is at hand. And even non-T people will pick up the 'jargon'.

 

[esotericman]

Besides the obvious which has been stated, I'll throw in a couple of cents worth...

Firstly, the common or vulgar names are very singular in their usage. I suspect if in the US we were to poll normal people (non-hobbyists/biologists) that we'd find Aphonopelma hentzi probably has a dozen "common" names across it's range which is from Kansas to Texas. I also suspect if you went to state or community "X" and told them to use vulgar name "Y" because they do in community "Z", they would tell you no way in "H". This example is then taken a step farther when we cross country lines. There is no feasible way to use common names when talking about organisms. It is part of why the binomial system was created.

Now then, has anyone ever sat in a room with native Chinese or "any language other than your own native tongue" speakers when they're talking about biology? They speak quickly, in their own own language, but then insert the binomial into the conversation. The reason I use Chinese is because that language is not rooted in Greek or Latin like English, Spanish, French, Portuguese and German are. Those speakers must learn to use words which sound NOTHING like anything they've ever had to say. And some hobbyists, who do speak one of the derived languages have the self-centeredness to complain about learning the binomials! It is just shocking anyone is so egocentric to not know there is a world outside of community "X". This is particularly true on AB as it has an international membership. This is also why Europeans do not have this argument, as many Europeans speak more than one language. Assuming everyone speaks English... sheesh.

But to the aid of those who fret pronouncing the names, because that is often the only hurdle (learning two names for people is simple after all), there are pronunciation guides.

Here are two for example:

http://atshq.org/articles/beechwp1.html

http://atshq.org/articles/beechwp2.html

You'll see that the roots of the binomial names often have a real meaning, which helps us remember them. For example:

Avicularia versicolor literally means "pertaining to little bird" + "variegated"/"changing color". This has far more meaning to myself than whatever asinine common names has been saddled on the species for this week.


In any case, we could discuss how to use binomials correctly, including in text, but that's not the point of this thread. By learning the correct names, no one is proving they're better than anyone else, they're proving they know what species they're talking about in a mature community. I am proud to see so many in our hobby so ready to do so.

 

[TaraculasByte]

When I'm at fancy cocktail parties I like to swirl my glass and talk about handling my big hairy Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens.

lmao...exactly

trust me, i understand whats going on here. you people want to feel like youve accomplished this great task of knowing all the scientific names. but why try and throw out all the more colorful names, that most people would be more attracted to? it makes no sense. the main point i tried to make earlier, was that tarantulas have been very unknown to me for the last 20yrs. im sorta pissed that i just now, at age 33, stumbled upon them. why is that? its because nobody is running around the world saying "chromatopelma cyaneopubescens", and it cracks me up the way you people think that abbreviating, or initialing these long words helps matters. that just makes it more confusing to what is what, to the average joe's. common names are what gave me the best visuals to what was what. sure some got a little confusing at times, but thats when i would use the scientific names to confirm what i was looking at (thats what they are for, confirmatation, not regular usage). but that was only for ten or so. i know for a fact, trying to put a visual with all the scientific names would have turned me off to the hobby faster than the speed of light. and im sure its happened to millions.

dont fool yourselves into thinking you t-addicts are these big bad brave souls that play with spiders, and everybody else that isnt here, are just afraid. truth is, we/they hadnt heard about all of them yet. not many people know that a bee sting is worse than most tarantula bites. only people like you guys know that. (one of your secrets to help keep the T-club secluded)

just look at kenthebugguys site, does he ignore the common names? hell no, hes smarter than that. same goes with all the other t-dealer sites ive seen. they want normal people to start buying their T's, not just anal hobbyist's.

like i was trying to point out before, i blame all of you for the reason it took me 20yrs to notice the hobby. but what i gathered from some of your comments, you dont care about the rest of the world catching on to your joyful t-world. like i said, secret codes to help keep them out. well guess what geeks....you have to share...HAHA



lmao @ motorkar....now they are all wolf spiders, not tarantulas? get outta here. im sure that you may be technically right, but who gives a damn....why try and confuse the hobby even more? lets just try to keep it simple so more people will want to join. sound good?

the more people that join the "club", the more spiders in circulation, the more spiders, the cheaper theyll be, the cheaper theyll be, the more we can all have. make sense?

im sure many more people here are afraid to speak up against your little devoted mob of wanna be scientists, but dont worry normal people, i got your back.

here are some common names, lets see which ones DONT instantly bring an image to your brain when you read them.

orange baboon
mexican flame knee
cobalt blue
costa rican zebra
venezuelan sun tiger
goliath bird eater
green bottle blue
peruevian purple pinktoe
king baboon
gooty ornamental

.....should i keep going?

 

[MrEMojo]

@TaraculasByte

The words you write show ignorance.
Do yourself a favor and listen to more informed people

And regarding what you were saying about expanding the hobby.
I'm just speaking for myself when I say this, but I personally don't neccesarily want the hobby to expand. For example, a P. metallica while it is always going to be beautiful, will they be as prized when everyone and their mother has one?
Just a thought

 

[LV-426]

My 2 cents, if the common name is well established ( king baboon, venezuelan suntiger, Hatian brown) we as intellegent humans know what T is is being talked about and should be acceptable. The owner should be responsible for knowing what species he/she owns. If you can narrow down the genus then ID the T as an ex: Acanthoscurria sp. or Phormictopus sp.

 

[NikiP]

I feel it needs repeating...

Your arguement is invalid.
2) How many people start out googling tarantulas, seeing the scientific names, & get scared off? Probably no where near as many that buy a G. rosea at their LPS then go looking on the world wide web to find out why their G. rosea is on their back only to come across a board like this then proceed to buy a million tarantulas online that aren't found in the majority of pet stores.

3) Are you involved in very many hobbies?

What hobby doesn't evolve to have some language of it's own?

I'd love to own a grizzled marble half moon doubletail. Do you know what that is? Doubt it.

Do you know what EeAaCcrCcr DW would be? Doubt it.

Do you know what a dragging knee or bagger is? Maybe.

Do you know what a frag is? Maybe.
.

 

[skinheaddave]

Okay. I've trimmed some nonsense and handed out some infractions. You may proceed with the original discussion or drop it .. but continuing along the same path the thread was taking is not an acceptable option.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[fatich]

i am always against using common names even if i can not correctly pronounce them.
in written language i also prefer not to use abbreviations like P.murinus,G.rosea. i always try to write full scientific names like Pterinochilus murinus , Grammostola rosea.
Also some people write the scientific names wrong,i think when we see we should correct them,because if we do not correct them this person will continue to write it wrong.

That's my view point.

 

[Falk]

Since it's on topic...I just want to add...it's funny that we insist on using the correct scientific name (vs. the confusing common name/s), but then can't be bothered using the correct presentation...

Genus is capitalized, species is not, and they are italicised OR can also be underlined (although this is becoming obsolete, you still see it a lot in older material, and is handy when handwriting)...

Grammostola pulchra or G. pulchra NOT G. Pulchra

It's not a whole lot of extra effort these days...

I agree with you, the scientific name should be spelled correctly, not a B. Smithi or Avic Avic, B Albo etc etc

---------- Post added at 08:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

TaraculasByte let me ask you this: What is a Goliath bird eater? Is it a T. stirmi , T. apophysis or is it a T. blondi?

If you are not interested in learing about this hobby then leave it. To learn all the basics you need to know the scientific names.