Circulation vs Ventilation

bryverine

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Ok so I've been looking into designing an enclosed display case that can have a front door/sides that have foam insulation so it's dark and maintains heat more efficiently. It would be opened daily.

Here's my question, what do tarantulas really need, ventilation (fresh air) or circulation (reduced stagnant air).

Before jumping in to say ventilation right away, humor me and read the following:
1. When people soak substrate, humidity creates a gradient because it rises in air. With nowhere to go (not enough ventilation), you'll have a highly humid, stagnant area in the highest reaches of an enclosure.
2. We all know that for avics, stagnant, humid air is devastating.
3. Brazil humidity changes regularly even within a day e.g. Rio de Janeiro is forcasted to have humidity that goes from 60% to 80% over the span of today. 60% is still quite high.​

Now consider the following:
Assume there is not something stupid like soaked substrate.
What if there was a fan attached to the bottom of a 'sealed' enclosure to create enough flow to cycle the air inside the container so there was no longer a stagnant humidity concentration?​

What do you think?
 
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14pokies

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I keep the overflow from my T room in my bedroom.. If not allowed in my room to sleep with me, My little son of perdition a.k.a The destroyer of all things cherished ( my cat) will howl all night at my door.

So with little Satan as a room mate I have to keep something like 15 Ts in a shelving unit with glass doors.. I have everything from teeny avic slings in comparatively dry enclosures to haplos in very moist enclosures and what not in there and I have no mold in any enclosures.

What I do to prevent stagnant air is open the doors for about five minutes each night and run a box fan on medium pointing directly at it.. I can see the web moving in some enclosures like my avics and my chilos etc.

As long as fresh air is being forced in there daily or even every other day you shouldn't have any problems.
 

cold blood

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Being passive breathers, their individual needs for air aren't really too high. I think circulation and air movement is most important.
 

Chris LXXIX

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I keep the overflow from my T room in my bedroom.. If not allowed in my room to sleep with me, My little son of perdition a.k.a The destroyer of all things cherished ( my cat) will howl all night at my door.
Sometimes I think if I'm the only one with cats that are not interested in T's (and other venomous) at all :-s

I let my males sleep on my bed for hours when I'm not home (after all they can easily open/close the door) have yet to see an enclosure stomped/smashed or T's chased all over the floor u_u
 

The Snark

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Speaking as someone who was in charge of the HVAC system and air quality in a hospital.
There is a statute, in Calif Title 22, that requires a certain amount of air to be exhausted and replaced with make up air.
Why? Simple. Entirely recirculated air concentrates airborne contaminants and organisms.
 
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Sana

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Sometimes I think if I'm the only one with cats that are not interested in T's (and other venomous) at all :-s

I let my males sleep on my bed for hours when I'm not home (after all they can easily open/close the door) have yet to see an enclosure stomped/smashed or T's chased all over the floor u_u
Just so you know, you aren't the only one. My cats take absolutely no notice of my tarantulas. As far as they are concerned those enclosures are fish tanks without the excitement of fishing. If something is made of glass on the other hand, it won't survive an hour.
 

14pokies

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Sometimes I think if I'm the only one with cats that are not interested in T's (and other venomous) at all :-s

I let my males sleep on my bed for hours when I'm not home (after all they can easily open/close the door) have yet to see an enclosure stomped/smashed or T's chased all over the floor u_u
Mine is a monster.. He drinks my coffee and then trys to knock it over as soon as he's finished.. He is that kind of cat but he is Het. Lykoi so I knew he would be a handfull..
 

Crone Returns

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Ok so I've been looking into designing an enclosed display case that can have a front door/sides that have foam insulation so it's dark and maintains heat more efficiently. It would be opened daily.

Here's my question, what do tarantulas really need, ventilation (fresh air) or circulation (reduced stagnant air).

Before jumping in to say ventilation right away, humor me and read the following:
1. When peyote soak substrate, humidity creates a gradient because it rises in air. With nowhere to go (not enough ventilation), you'll have a highly humid, stagnant area in the highest reaches of an enclosure.
2. We all know that for avics, stagnant, humid air is devastating.
3. Brazil humidity changes regularly even within a day e.g. Rio de Janeiro is forcasted to have humidity that goes from 60% to 80% over the span of today. 60% is still quite high.​

Now consider the following:
Assume there is not something stupid like soaked substrate.
What if there was a fan attached to the bottom of a 'sealed' enclosure to create enough flow to cycle the air inside the container so there was no longer a stagnant humidity concentration?​

What do you think?
"When peyote soaked substrate"?
 

Grenn

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Excellent to see this post + responses, as I was going to ask a very similar question! I am setting up a space on a bookshelf with an acrylic door as protection from the cat. Will ensure it gets adequate circulation each day.
 

Bugmom

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I don't see how you can have one without the other. Stagnant air doesn't become less stagnant if you blow it around. It has to be refreshed with fresh air.
 

cold blood

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I don't see how you can have one without the other. Stagnant air doesn't become less stagnant if you blow it around. It has to be refreshed with fresh air.
No, but moving air is less likely to become stagnant without copious amounts of moisture.
 

Bugmom

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No, but moving air is less likely to become stagnant without copious amounts of moisture.
I feel like we're talking about two different things.
1. Don't flood enclosures.
2. Ventilation + circulation makes for the *least* stagnant air.
 

cold blood

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I feel like we're talking about two different things.
1. Don't flood enclosures.
2. Ventilation + circulation makes for the *least* stagnant air.
Obviously...but he wasn't asking about one in favor of the other. Of course some degree of fresh air is required...lol. :playful:

My point was simply that with better circulation, you can get away with less ventilation (not none)......at the same time you could over ventilate, but if you don't have any circulation, it can be a problem...which is when you see mold growing in places it shouldn't be growing in, like when we see people with mold in relatively dry enclosures.
 

Bugmom

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Obviously...but he wasn't asking about one in favor of the other. Of course some degree of fresh air is required...lol. :playful:

My point was simply that with better circulation, you can get away with less ventilation (not none)......at the same time you could over ventilate, but if you don't have any circulation, it can be a problem...which is when you see mold growing in places it shouldn't be growing in, like when we see people with mold in relatively dry enclosures.
Hmm. I read it as asking in favor of one or the other by asking what they "really need":

Here's my question, what do tarantulas really need, ventilation (fresh air) or circulation (reduced stagnant air).
If the question isn't which is more important... then I guess I'm just not understanding what the point of the thread was. Totally possible, cause this has not been a good week for me and I'm surprised I can form complete sentences.
 

cold blood

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Hmm. I read it as asking in favor of one or the other by asking what they "really need":



If the question isn't which is more important... then I guess I'm just not understanding what the point of the thread was. Totally possible, cause this has not been a good week for me and I'm surprised I can form complete sentences.
you may be right:cyclops:
 

bryverine

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If the question isn't which is more important... then I guess I'm just not understanding what the point of the thread was.
Myself:
I've been looking into designing an enclosed display case that can have a front door/sides that have foam insulation so it's dark and maintains heat more efficiently.
The point of the foam is to create a sealed, insulated system to maintain heat. A consequence of this is that air exchange will be non-existent until the system is opened.

My question was not correctly worded it seems. Of course they need both. If I just blow around the same air in an airtight container, eventually the tarantula would suffocate.

I guess I always see the "not enough ventilation argument" and I was just curious if perhaps ventilation plays as big of a role as its made out to.

Example:
If I have an Avic enclosure with 80% humidity inside ( :eek: ) and put it in a room with 80% humidity ( :drowning: ), will adding more holes in the enclosure really help? Unless there's a difference in humidity am I doing more than just effectively circulating the air?

I don't see how you can have one without the other. Stagnant air doesn't become less stagnant if you blow it around. It has to be refreshed with fresh air.
I'm not sure I completly agree. Humidity rises and without creating turbulence in the enclosure (i.e. stagnant air), you will have a gradient of humidity. If you disturb this gradient, you push that humid top air around and mix it with the bottom, less humid air.
What is fresh air really?
 
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