Check out this jerk

[KingBowser]

Alright well for one thing, many tarantulas live in a hole in the ground while fish often swim great distances to migrate and spawn. I wholeheartedly think the guy was an idiot for making a statement like that. From someone who once kept all kinds of aquarium fish, everything from 2 inch cichlids to 3-4 ft catfish, I would say lumping fish in there was proving he knows not what he's talking about. The only fishes that I would venture to call domesticated (and a difficult time surviving in the wild) would be the fancier varieties of goldfish. There's also alot of gray area in the dog & cat statement as well. A breed like a basenji, which has traditionally been a "wild dog" of African villages, would thrive far better in a wild setting than a lhasa apso or pug. Perhaps he should've clarified his statement. I would consider tarantulas to be more aptly suited to captivity more so than nearly any other animal group. That's not to say they are better off in captivity, but that we would be more likely to meet a tarantulas needs than say an elephant(which travels great distances) or a big cat.

 

[fscorpion]

The only real ignorance I see is in some of the responses in this thread. The message that the OP received seems pretty reasonable to me except, as some have mentioned, the small fish part. (it's ok to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings?)

Basically you're delusional if you think that keeping T's makes you some kind of conservationist working towards saving a species. Unless you're involved in some serious research or actual conservation efforts then you are just a person with spiders and that means you've done more harm than good.

Also, what is it with this notion that everything must be saved? Are the dinosaurs still roaming around? Isn't the extinction and emergence of new species inevitable over time? This isn't to say I'm happy about everything I see happening around me, but humanities effect on the planet is also part of the natural order. Some day, probably quite far in the distant future, this planet will cease to exist and only those life forms that have managed to find another place to extend their time in this universe will live on. All life, in fact all things, are temporary.

That being said, I do believe we should strive toward a more harmonious relationship with our planet. But this notion of the static preservation of all life as it exists today, even human life, is just the individual projecting their own subjective valuation on the given species or life itself.

Nicely said and I completely agree with you except for the part where humans are part of the natural process of exctintion. I really can't agree with that, as humans escaped from natur's grip long ago and now are without any control, and keep destroying eveything. We are, like they said in that movie, like a virus, destroying everything we come in contact with and I think that has to change...
Filip

 

[fscorpion]

Speak for yourself.



Yeah, tell that to the undescribed species of Poecilotheria already gone, and those that will never be found before they're already extinct.

-Sean

Can you explain me how do you think you are helping tarantulas to survive in the wild by keeping them in terrariums? Do you really believe in that? Maybe you know that there are some Poecilotheria species that are now extinct and never been found? I think you haven't read accurately your species survival handbook.
Do you think that any creature has any good from being kept in captivity? You are saving species? To do what with them later? You can't send them back in their environment as, I suppose, it will be destroyed...so you just keep them and save the species from extinction? Is there any good in saving a species by keeping it in captivity? I really don't think so...
If you want to save tarantulas and their environment, start consuming less electricity, less paper, less wood, start producing less garbage and stuff like that, as it is the only think that matters (try a minor electricity saving a day and multiply it x 5billions! and see how many coal will be saved and how less CO2 emission in the atmosphere will result in that...simple math...)
Filip

 

[ShadowBlade]

Can you explain me how do you think you are helping tarantulas to survive in the wild by keeping them in terrariums?

Yes, I've been studying arachnid taxonomy my entire life. I plan on majoring in, and entering in a research field of invertebrates. I can't study what isn't there.

Many species of Poecilotheria have small distributions, lumber companies don't have to chop down much to eliminate a species. Let me ask you something why is it bad to raise them in captivity?? Do not take into account people buying up a bunch of wild-caughts, or people improperly caring for them, as there are bad people in every good operation.

Tarantulas have VERY simple brains, they don't care about being in a tank. Just keeping them alive in the terrarium does nothing. But me, and many other keepers breed them. Resulting in the species remaining alive.

-Sean

 

[ShadowBlade]

The only real ignorance I see is in some of the responses in this thread. The message that the OP received seems pretty reasonable to me except, as some have mentioned, the small fish part. (it's ok to eat fish cause they don't have any feelings?).

Why is it correct? Because tarantulas with their extremely basic brains, not understanding they are in captivity, kept under ideal conditions, bred, etc.. Where's the negative part for T's? (I'm talking about somewhat experienced keepers here.)

Basically you're delusional if you think that keeping T's makes you some kind of conservationist working towards saving a species. Unless you're involved in some serious research or actual conservation efforts then you are just a person with spiders and that means you've done more harm than good.

Haha! I'm getting a kick out of you guys! Pessimistics that think maybe because you guys are doing anything, no one is. By breeding them in captivity, we are increasing their numbers without importing WC's.

Also, what is it with this notion that everything must be saved? Are the dinosaurs still roaming around? Isn't the extinction and emergence of new species inevitable over time? This isn't to say I'm happy about everything I see happening around me, but humanities effect on the planet is also part of the natural order. Some day, probably quite far in the distant future, this planet will cease to exist and only those life forms that have managed to find another place to extend their time in this universe will live on. All life, in fact all things, are temporary.

As I said in my above post, can't study what isn't there.

That being said, I do believe we should strive toward a more harmonious relationship with our planet. But this notion of the static preservation of all life as it exists today, even human life, is just the individual projecting their own subjective valuation on the given species or life itself.

I will not even comment on this.

-Sean

 

[fscorpion]

Yes, I've been studying arachnid taxonomy my entire life. I plan on majoring in, and entering in a research field of invertebrates. I can't study what isn't there.

Many species of Poecilotheria have small distributions, lumber companies don't have to chop down much to eliminate a species. Let me ask you something why is it bad to raise them in captivity?? Do not take into account people buying up a bunch of wild-caughts, or people improperly caring for them, as there are bad people in every good operation.

Tarantulas have VERY simple brains, they don't care about being in a tank. Just keeping them alive in the terrarium does nothing. But me, and many other keepers breed them. Resulting in the species remaining alive.

-Sean

Sean, you still haven't explained me how do you think that keeping tarantulas in captivity will help the ones in the wild??? What is your profession? You don't sound like a biologist and it looks like you are overlooking some crucial facts here. Studying an animal in captivity, if it doesn't exist in the wild, has no sense unless you aren't planning to reintroduce this species in the wild. You can't reintroduce it since its habitat, we suppose, is lost, so your studying has no meaning! Animals are mainly studied in their natural environment, in a population, where we can watch their natural behavior.
I don't think that it is bad to raise them in captivity, I am just saying that the reasons for doing that are not altruistic or for the welfare of the tarantula, the reason is that people love it! Now, your argument that this way you are helping wild ones because you multiply the captive ones and the impact on the wild ones is much less doesn't stand for 2 reasons. The first reason is because there is absolutely no necessity to import tarantulas in the first place, people keep them as a hobby and that could easily be stopped by a fish and wildlife resolution. The second reason is that keeping them in captivity won't save them from their habitat loss.
Even though tarantulas has a simple nervous system (they don't have a brain, but ganglions), we can't say whether they would rather be in a fish tank or in the wild, therefore I (and this is just my opinion) suppose it is better for them to stay where they came from and where they have adapted to live.
I could name you many reasons why I think that tarantulas have no benefit from staying in captivity, but this would make the tread much longer and much more boring to read...
Think about what I have wrote, don't jump immediately into conclusions...
Filip

 

[bliss]

Sean, you still haven't explained me how do you think that keeping tarantulas in captivity will help the ones in the wild???

i don't have that many t's but i love the ones i have, i think one or two of mine may be WC, but hey, a lot of people buy WC's... just think of how many of us got hooked by going into a pet shop and buying a G rosea.

i believe that shawn is correct. fscoripion, It's true -- t's out in the wild have nothing to do with those being kept and bred in captivity -- unless the WC ones are caught and sold to hobbyists, which will then deliver new genes into the CB hobby.

OH yes, and fscorpion... sean is just posting his opinion like everyone else here -- 16 or not, you must remember one thing: Age is all in the mind. i've seen students outperform their teachers before in my college classes, so age has nothing to do with this subject.

We may not be helping t's by importing WC, but when we CB we reduce the # of WC that are needed. Just look at B smithi -- it's on the CITES list, but yet due to Captive breeding they have become more and more available without having to be collected from the Wild. That is a great prime example.

"speaker heal thyself" < can't remember where it's from, but i've always liked that saying.

oh yes and fscorpion, just remember this for yourself: "It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- mark twain

not being rude, im just trying to point out-- if someone doesn't believe in CB T's or just whatever -- they don't need to be in this hobby

 

[ShadowBlade]

Sean, you still haven't explained me how do you think that keeping tarantulas in captivity will help the ones in the wild???

Because it keeps the species alive. I've told you this atleast twice now, do you read my posts? Poecilotheria are going extinct in Sri Lanka, and so are many other species. By getting them into captivity, and breeding the species, the species remains alive.

The second reason is that keeping them in captivity won't save them from their habitat loss.

When did I say they would?

Even though tarantulas has a simple nervous system (they don't have a brain, but ganglions),

Are we getting technical now?

OH, Sean, you'r 16! Lol, pardon me and forget everything I said...
Filip

Does that invalidate me from this debate? You've proven nothing in your posts, nor made any better points then I.

-Sean

 

[bliss]

The first reason is because there is absolutely no necessity to import tarantulas in the first place

lol, really? remember the DoDo bird? look what happened to them. Would we really want T's to follow the same path, fscorpion? not just t's, but any kind of invert for that matter...

If and when the inverts' natural habitat becomes destroyed, would you rather them die along with it in the wild or at least have a chance of survival in captivity? < THIS is why we captive breed.. .. b/c we love these animals and don't wanna see them die out. that and they are just so aesthetically pleasing.

i know there's a big difference between birds and inverts, but the process of extinction excludes no species.

 

[fscorpion]

i don't have that many t's but i love the ones i have, i think one or two of mine may be WC, but hey, a lot of people buy WC's... just think of how many of us got hooked by going into a pet shop and buying a G rosea.

i believe that shawn is correct. fscoripion, It's true -- t's out in the wild have nothing to do with those being kept and bred in captivity -- unless the WC ones are caught and sold to hobbyists, which will then deliver new genes into the CB hobby.

OH yes, and fscorpion... sean is just posting his opinion like everyone else here -- 16 or not, you must remember one thing: Age is all in the mind. i've seen students outperform their teachers before in my college classes, so age has nothing to do with this subject.

We may not be helping t's by importing WC, but when we CB we reduce the # of WC that are needed. Just look at B smithi -- it's on the CITES list, but yet due to Captive breeding they have become more and more available without having to be collected from the Wild. That is a great prime example.

"speaker heal thyself" < can't remember where it's from, but i've always liked that saying.

oh yes and fscorpion, just remember this for yourself: "It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- mark twain

not being rude, im just trying to point out-- if someone doesn't believe in CB T's or just whatever -- they don't need to be in this hobby

Listen Bliss or whatever your name is. First of all my name is Filip and not Fscorpion (that is my username here), try to sign your letters the next time as it is impolite not to do that.
You are being very rude and insulting. I think you should get a few lessons of politeness before you talk next time. And by quoting something about ignorance you appear to be the subject of that quotation.
For me age counts, school counts education counts...that has nothing to do with someone being smart or stupid, you just have to know something about biology in general to be able to make some statements. I don't think that someone who is finishing high school has enough knowledge about habitat destruction, evolution, genetics and so on...that has nothing to do with being smart, it just takes time...
As for you, it seems like you didn't read anything of the things I have said.
I hope that you realize that having tarantulas is not a must! You won't die if you don't get them. This is like saying lets breed elephants and kill the bred ones so we can save the ones in the wild?! Does 't this sound insane to you? Well, that is what you are saying, I hope you are getting the point...
Filip

 

[fscorpion]

lol, really? remember the DoDo bird? look what happened to them. Would we really want T's to follow the same path, fscorpion? not just t's, but any kind of invert for that matter...

If and when the inverts' natural habitat becomes destroyed, would you rather them die along with it in the wild or at least have a chance of survival in captivity? < THIS is why we captive breed.. .. b/c we love these animals and don't wanna see them die out. that and they are just so aesthetically pleasing.

i know there's a big difference between birds and inverts, but the process of extinction excludes no species.

What happened to the Dodo bird? Please, enlighten me!
I would rather have them extinct than kept in a box, like I would rather be dead than be kept in a plastic cube all my life!
You are also nothing more than a child, and you don't understand that keeping species somewhere contained is absolutely useless and the possibility to keep a species from being extinct that way is extremely low.
Can you please name me 1 just 1 species that has been saved from extinction by being kept in captivity??? I won't be explaining you the reasons here, but every attempt of that kind is a certain failure.
Do you also have the idea of how many species have become extinct during the existence of Earth? The ones living now are not even a few % of the species that ever lived.
And if you really want to save the tarantulas and other animals, go and do something to save their habitat!
Filip

 

[bliss]

alright filip, i admit that i forgot to put your name, and im sorry about that, i was just using your username. ~big deal~ i wasn't being disrespectful or anything, i was just simply using your username.

if i choose not to sign my letters, that's MY choice, like it or not.. and no im not being insulting.
AND ALSO: i have had 6 Biology courses in the last 3 yrs, as well as 4 political science classes and A LOT of philosophy classes, so YES, im well educated.
education... HA HA... let me ask you something, which is more important, a letter grade -- Or what you ACTUALLY KNOW??? just because i cant slap "biologist" on my resume doesn't mean im not educated in it.

"you won't die if you don't get them"... VERY true... but let me tell you, there would be a LOT of extinct species if we all just said "don't worry, i won't DIE if i don't get them.." but the point is, they WOULD HAVE.

~ DANIEL (happy?)
~ PS: i wasn't being rude with the whole "ignorance" thing, but im just pointing out that when people collect stuff from the wild, it's usually for a purpose.
and im NOT a kid, i don't know if you know but over here in america you are legally an adult when you are 18, and i am 19. ~ and YES, age is all in the head, i've seen 80 year old men who were more athletic than my 16 year old cousin, and ONCE again, i've seen students outperform teachers, which goes to show you that experience can be obtained quick. True your body dies over time, but remember the phrase "mind over matter".

EDIT: look filip, biologist or not biologist, 16 yrs old, 19 yrs old or whatever, we each have our own opinions. The point of this thread was to point out that someone expressed their opinion when having little or no experience with the subject at hand. im not being rude, you are not being rude. it's just a battle of opinions, and regardless of what you say, it doesn't matter, just like what i say doesn't matter. people are going to do what they want to do. ~~ you and i both know that the pace of extinction runs A LOT faster than that of evolution -- if the poor little T's could evolve fast enough to live through habitat destruction, then they would, but they can't -- which is why we collect them from the Wild, so that we can breed them, and if they opportunity ever arose to introduce them back into the original habitat, im sure we would. i'm not going to waste my thoughts and work my fingers to prove my point, b/c like i said before, this is just a discussion and nothing more and it's definately not worth my time sitting and arguing about stuff that doesn't matter or can't be helped. "go and do something to save their habitat!" says you but you don't realize that it's easier said than done, if i could i would but one person can't do it alone, you must try to gather a group of people, and i HAVE talked to people about it, and sadly enough they don't care . so please, im asking you -- can we just end this right now? i was just agreeing with sean.
OH YEAH: ill give you an example, take the red wolves here in america. they were almost hunted and killed to extinction, but due to people COLLECTING THEM FROM THE WILD they managed to breed them and get their numbers back up. so don't tell me that i don't know what im talking about!
yes and here, i found you an article filip: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0131_030131_redwolf.html

 

[IdahoBiteyThing]

What happened to the Dodo bird? Please, enlighten me!
I would rather have them extinct than kept in a box, like I would rather be dead than be kept in a plastic cube all my life!
You are also nothing more than a child, and you don't understand that keeping species somewhere contained is absolutely useless and the possibility to keep a species from being extinct that way is extremely low.
Can you please name me 1 just 1 species that has been saved from extinction by being kept in captivity??? I won't be explaining you the reasons here, but every attempt of that kind is a certain failure.
Do you also have the idea of how many species have become extinct during the existence of Earth? The ones living now are not even a few % of the species that ever lived.
And if you really want to save the tarantulas and other animals, go and do something to save their habitat!
Filip

Peregrine falcon, California Condor, Aplomado falcon, Hawaiian Nene. All captive bred (right here in Boise, Idaho) and re-released into old/new habitats after corrections made to habitat destruction/pesticide usage/lead poisoning/human predation issues. There is value in keeping a reservoir of genes in captivity- we may learn at some point not to foul our nest and want to re-establish some species into wild situations. Or not. ps. Your dismissal of the opinion of 16 y/o's was harsh, they're no more or less valid than anyone's OPINION. Fact is different. Opinion posted as fact is even worse.

 

[fscorpion]

Hi Daniel, nice to meet you, so here are my answers:

if i choose not to sign my letters, that's MY choice, like it or not.. and no im not being insulting.

Ok, it's your choice, usually it's a bon-ton rule to sign letters, and I also like to call people by their name, blissful sounds strange to me, I don't know the meaning of that word so I prefer your name.

AND ALSO: i have had 6 Biology courses in the last 3 yrs, as well as 4 political science classes and A LOT of philosophy classes, so YES, im well educated.

If that is all it takes

education... HA HA... let me ask you something, which is more important, a letter grade -- Or what you ACTUALLY KNOW??? just because i cant slap "biologist" on my resume doesn't mean im not educated in it.

Can't we have both? The rule should be that a "letter grade" gives u actually an education, I know that there are exceptions, but that should be the rule. Also, I never said you are not educated, but I am sure that your biology knowledge is a little lower than the one of a graduated biologist. For example, I think I know math pretty well, but I don't pretend to know it better of someone who spent his whole life studying it...get my point?

~ DANIEL (happy?)

Yes, thanks

~ PS: i wasn't being rude with the whole "ignorance" thing, but im just pointing out that when people collect stuff from the wild, it's usually for a purpose.

No problem, its ok now. I don't think they always do it for a purpose.

and im NOT a kid, i don't know if you know but over here in america you are legally an adult when you are 18, and i am 19. ~ and YES, age is all in the head, i've seen 80 year old men who were more athletic than my 16 year old cousin, and ONCE again, i've seen students outperform teachers, which goes to show you that experience can be obtained quick. True your body dies over time, but remember the phrase "mind over matter".

No need to be ironic, you know what I meant. The idea that you have is noble, but it is also pretty unreal, that is where I found a childish behavior which is not bad, just a little Peter Pan like.
As for the examples that you are giving me, it is possible and I believe they are real, but you would have to agree that usually that is not the case.
Also, I have never seen a child knowing more history than a professor or kid playing poker better than a pro. I am trying to say that you need experience and time to learn some things, you can be a natural, but you still have to work out and learn.

EDIT: look filip, biologist or not biologist, 16 yrs old, 19 yrs old or whatever, we each have our own opinions. The point of this thread was to point out that someone expressed their opinion when having little or no experience with the subject at hand.

Yes, that was the point of this tread and I wanted to say that this man, even though it looks like he hasn't got a lot of knowledge on the subject, he expressed an opinion which people here didn't like and they immediately called him a jerk! You are also telling me that he has the right to an opinion and I don't think people should call him jerk. You can discuss it, argue with it, show some arguments, but no one here (neither can I) can also claim that he is not right.

im not being rude, you are not being rude. it's just a battle of opinions, and regardless of what you say, it doesn't matter, just like what i say doesn't matter. people are going to do what they want to do. ~~

Why are we writing this if it doesn't matter. It matters to me and I will change my opinion when someone shows me something to think about. You make me think about the red wolf...

you and i both know that the pace of extinction runs A LOT faster than that of evolution -- if the poor little T's could evolve fast enough to live through habitat destruction, then they would, but they can't -- which is why we collect them from the Wild, so that we can breed them, and if they opportunity ever arose to introduce them back into the original habitat, im sure we would.

Playing with nature is a dangerous thing. There are a lot of things to take in consideration when you make a reintroduction and usually there is always something that doesn't work as planned. There are also many successful reintroductions, but usually from other populations in the wild. With captive animals it is usually much more difficult and I never read something about it before…Aside all those thing, I really don't think that people keep tarantulas in order to have them ready for a reintroduction, lol, and they shouldn't be keeping them for that reason.

i'm not going to waste my thoughts and work my fingers to prove my point, b/c like i said before, this is just a discussion and nothing more and it's definately not worth my time sitting and arguing about stuff that doesn't matter or can't be helped. "go and do something to save their habitat!" says you but you don't realize that it's easier said than done, if i could i would but one person can't do it alone, you must try to gather a group of people, and i HAVE talked to people about it, and sadly enough they don't care . so please, im asking you -- can we just end this right now? i was just agreeing with sean.

I wasn't expecting you to take a gun and go waste all the people who are involved in habitat destruction. I meant that everyone can do some little things to help the nature or at least to slow down the destruction. I am talking about things like electricity saving. Imagine if you would save daily 100grams of coal, and if every person on earth would do the same, we would have 500.000.000KG less to burn for electricity and imagine how less CO2 emission!!! Can you get my point, we can do little things that act globally.

OH YEAH: ill give you an example, take the red wolves here in america. they were almost hunted and killed to extinction, but due to people COLLECTING THEM FROM THE WILD they managed to breed them and get their numbers back up. so don't tell me that i don't know what im talking about!
yes and here, i found you an article filip: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0131_030131_redwolf.html

This is a nice example, probably very difficult, but as they proved manageable. However, they didn't “collect” them from the wild, it was a saving project that took money, time and a lot of care and planning. It is also to see what will happen. Of course, it is something very positive...
Also, please, take in consideration that the wolf wasn't extinct and that the wolves used to restore the natural population were taken from the wild, taken to some desert islands, multiplied and taken back to their natural habitat. I am not sure what would have happened if they took some exemplars that were man raised in captivity and then taken back to the wild...maybe someone knows more examples which would be interesting to hear…
All the best
Filip

 

[fscorpion]

Peregrine falcon, California Condor, Aplomado falcon, Hawaiian Nene. All captive bred (right here in Boise, Idaho) and re-released into old/new habitats after corrections made to habitat destruction/pesticide usage/lead poisoning/human predation issues. There is value in keeping a reservoir of genes in captivity- we may learn at some point not to foul our nest and want to re-establish some species into wild situations. Or not. ps. Your dismissal of the opinion of 16 y/o's was harsh, they're no more or less valid than anyone's OPINION. Fact is different. Opinion posted as fact is even worse.

No disrespect for 16 year old people was meant but the view on the world when we are teens and later on is much different.
Nice and interesting exemples, didn't read everything, but it was quite an effort. Well, you surely prooved me wrong, this is a subject I will think about and I am interested to see how these projects will continue, especially for the hawaiian nene...
My point for the reintroduction is that species that disappear completely and are kept in a few places on earth, even if they multiply well, there are still some genetic problems that will show. If they will be kept for a long time and bred in captivity these problems will surely appear (like inbreeding) and this could endager the genetics of the species. Also, after a long time of breeding a species in a different environment, they are likely to become adapted to this different environmet. This is why I prefere the conservation of a species rather than its reintroduction when it is already gone. Eventually, when populations become too small they cannot recover their bad genes and in a more or less small amount of time they will become extinct...
Filip

 

[bliss]

yes filip, that is agreeable that not all WC speciments are going to be put to good use (AKA for pets stores) but a lot are. so from this we can agree that WC specimens have positive and negative effects on specie conservation. I've always thought that we should be able to import only a certain number, just enough to get them in the hobby, then to quit collecting the wild ones so often. Especially considering that many imported species may be keystone species to the habitat.

~daniel

 

[KingBowser]

I think it takes quite a bit of audacity to look down at a well educated 16 or 19 year old that you don't know and tell them that since they don't have a degree and a graduate thesis that they have alot to learn. Everyone has alot to learn. My opinion on this matter is that propagating animals in captivity is nothing short of great. The fact that people do it because they want to is a good thing. Even the "selfish" animal keepers that want the creature just because they want it play an important role in awareness and education.

 

[fscorpion]

yes filip, that is agreeable that not all WC speciments are going to be put to good use (AKA for pets stores) but a lot are. so from this we can agree that WC specimens have positive and negative effects on specie conservation. I've always thought that we should be able to import only a certain number, just enough to get them in the hobby, then to quit collecting the wild ones so often. Especially considering that many imported species may be keystone species to the habitat.

~daniel

I agree with you Daniel that a limited number of specimens can do no harm to a population (even bigger numbers when a habitat is well preserved) and since I also keep tarantulas and scorpions I love to see them offered. Buying bred specimens is also a very positive thing and I always buy slings. And who knows, maybe some day these specimens will serve to repopulate some places, though I still think its a hard task...but I surely started to think about it...
Filip

 

[fscorpion]

I think it takes quite a bit of audacity to look down at a well educated 16 or 19 year old that you don't know and tell them that since they don't have a degree and a graduate thesis that they have alot to learn. Everyone has alot to learn. .

Oh, please, stop it. You know what I meant! I have to learn things, you have too and surely they have to learn a lot more! There is no insult in saying that, and if you want to tell me that someone who is in high school knows equally well a subject someone graduated in, well, that is just an absurd statement!
Filip

 

[ShadowBlade]

I think it takes quite a bit of audacity to look down at a well educated 16 or 19 year old that you don't know and tell them that since they don't have a degree and a graduate thesis that they have alot to learn.

Actually, I don't have a problem with it. He hasn't proven or provided any better points then I. He doesn't think I'm worthy of debating, thats his perogative. Others I have debated with on here have atleast a bit more respect. I can hold my own quite well.

I think he may want to read up a bit on his invertebrate genetics.

See, I may have this wrong Filip, but this should be a debate of statistics, data, articles, and just general evidence to support one side or the other. Not a "I have a degree, you don't, my opinion is more valid".

-Sean