Care sheets?

[cold blood]

I would describe the four basic care regimens and just link to one of the four for each common beginner species.

Accuracy aside, the main advantage of the care sheet format is that it presents the information in an organized and concise manner. As a novice keeper, it can be intimidating to try to sift through lengthy discussions -- and that's assuming you are even reading good discussions (as opposed to whatever you might encounter on Facebook or other Web sites).

I disagree, IMO care sheets offer only disadvantages.. it matters not how concise and organized they appear if theyre full of nonsense.

To me its like going in the yard and organizing the dog poop so it looks nice and maybe tells a story....in the end its still just piles of crap.

 

[clive 82]

I disagree, IMO care sheets offer only disadvantages.. it matters not how concise and organized they appear if theyre full of nonsense.

To me its like going in the yard and organizing the dog poop so it looks nice and maybe tells a story....in the end its still just piles of crap.

I agree with cold blood. I'm still a newbie, only been in the hobby for about six months. I have learnt so much just by reading threads on this forum, there really is no need to refer to care sheets. As mentioned before care sheets offer a lot of info that contradicts as do a lot of pet shops. I really don't see a need to look for info anywhere else but here. My knowledge of the hobby has grown tenfold since joining the forum & Ive not really found too much info here that contradicts.

 

[Vanessa]

There is plenty of correct information found in care sheets - exactly the same information found on this forum. Unfortunately, it is mixed in with a lot of bad information too.
The problem isn't that they are all incorrect all of the time - the problem is that they have good and bad information mixed in and new people are not going to have enough experience to differentiate between the two.
I have tried to find care information here and you face the same issue. Topics on care information often results in bickering and off topic comments - resulting in new people having to wade through pages upon pages of information that does not pertain to care at all.

 

[clive 82]

There is plenty of correct information found in care sheets - exactly the same information found on this forum. Unfortunately, it is mixed in with a lot of bad information too.
The problem isn't that they are all incorrect all of the time - the problem is that they have good and bad information mixed in and new people are not going to have enough experience to differentiate between the two.
I have tried to find care information here and you face the same issue. Topics on care information often results in bickering and off topic comments - resulting in new people having to wade through pages upon pages of information that does not pertain to care at all.

I just find care sheets to be a bit confusing to someone who has no idea of how to care for a T. I find a lot of them to be "generic" rather than specific to a particular species so a lot of people keep their G rosea as you would a T blondi which ends in trouble. Maybe this is more so in the UK? I mean my LPS keeps there Ts like they do a lot of their snakes which irritates me so much lol! So as a new keeper you go to said shop, buy the T & get given the wrong care info.
But as you said there is a lot of correct info found in care sheets, its just a case of sifting through it all & finding the pieces that fit.

 

[Vanessa]

I just googled Brachypelma smithi care sheet and this is the information that I found in four different care sheets...
1. Keep them in an enclosure approximately 3 times their legspan.
2. Keep them on dry substrate, coco fiber works well.
3. The substrate needs to be deep enough to allow them to burrow and to prevent them from injuring themselves in a fall.
4. Keep a hide, preferably cork bark, but a number of things can be used as long as they have a hide. Fake plants can also be added to the enclosure.
5. Keep a water dish with fresh water at all times and do not use a sponge as it is a breeding ground for bacteria.
6. Feed them a couple of appropriately sized prey items once a week or every couple of weeks.
There is nothing wrong with this information and it is exactly the same information that you will find on this forum. Yes, care sheets tend to specify specific temperature and humidity requirements that can cause issues, but other than that they are not all filled with wrong information. If someone followed the above - their Brachypelma smithi would do just fine.
Yes, the advanced species require more specific care, but for the vast majority of tarantula keepers, the information that they require for their beginner species is easy to find.

 

[clive 82]

I just googled Brachypelma smithi care sheet and this is the information that I found in four different care sheets...
1. Keep them in an enclosure approximately 3 times their legspan.
2. Keep them on dry substrate, coco fiber works well.
3. The substrate needs to be deep enough to allow them to burrow and to prevent them from injuring themselves in a fall.
4. Keep a hide, preferably cork bark, but a number of things can be used as long as they have a hide. Fake plants can also be added to the enclosure.
5. Keep a water dish with fresh water at all times and do not use a sponge as it is a breeding ground for bacteria.
6. Feed them a couple of appropriately sized prey items once a week or every couple of weeks.
There is nothing wrong with this information and it is exactly the same information that you will find on this forum. Yes, care sheets tend to specify specific temperature and humidity requirements that can cause issues, but other than that they are not all filled with wrong information. If someone followed the above - their Brachypelma smithi would do just fine.

Cant argue with that

 

[Andrea82]

I just googled Brachypelma smithi care sheet and this is the information that I found in four different care sheets...
1. Keep them in an enclosure approximately 3 times their legspan.
2. Keep them on dry substrate, coco fiber works well.
3. The substrate needs to be deep enough to allow them to burrow and to prevent them from injuring themselves in a fall.
4. Keep a hide, preferably cork bark, but a number of things can be used as long as they have a hide. Fake plants can also be added to the enclosure.
5. Keep a water dish with fresh water at all times and do not use a sponge as it is a breeding ground for bacteria.
6. Feed them a couple of appropriately sized prey items once a week or every couple of weeks.
There is nothing wrong with this information and it is exactly the same information that you will find on this forum. Yes, care sheets tend to specify specific temperature and humidity requirements that can cause issues, but other than that they are not all filled with wrong information. If someone followed the above - their Brachypelma smithi would do just fine.
Yes, the advanced species require more specific care, but for the vast majority of tarantula keepers, the information that they require for their beginner species is easy to find.

That pretty much sums it up,and should be enough info. It unfortunately doesn't say what is best to avoid, like enclosures being too tall, or having screen tops. But other than that, it can work.

 

[clive 82]

That pretty much sums it up,and should be enough info. It unfortunately doesn't say what is best to avoid, like enclosures being too tall, or having screen tops. But other than that, it can work.

That would definitely be enough to keep a B smithi happy, as you say though it doesn't mention type of enclosure & when heat & humidity figures start getting thrown into the equation I think that could be where it goes wrong. A lot of people use thermometers & hygrometers, to achieve these figures but how do they know they are even calibrated correctly?

 

[Vanessa]

That pretty much sums it up,and should be enough info. It unfortunately doesn't say what is best to avoid, like enclosures being too tall, or having screen tops. But other than that, it can work.

I agree that care sheets usually do not go into that amount of detail. However, what I don't understand is why so many new people end up with such horrendous enclosures when a ten minute google search comes up with the information that I found. I understand that some people will follow pet shop advice, which is where I feel the most misinformation is given, but I literally spent five minutes finding the information I posted above in four separate care sheet links.
There is no excuse for people to make it onto this forum with a beginner species with no substrate, soaking wet substrate, tall enclosure, or with a sponge in the water dish or no water dish at all.
Add into the mix the number of good videos out there, some of them produced by members here, and the basic set up for the vast majority of the beginner species is easy to find outside of this forum.
Statements like 'all care sheets are garbage' are not accurate at all. They aren't all garbage and if you spend a bit of time researching you will find the information that you need. People need to be resourceful and do some research. Then, they can come onto a forum like this one and fine tune the details that care sheets omit. I've seen plenty of new people who have done just that.

 

[Abyss]

Care sheets = dead T's

Discussion over lol

 

[Andrea82]

There are a few types of new keepers.
The ones that see a fuzzy spider and have to have it. They go home with petshop advice and material, and end up here not knowing why their spider is in bad shape.
Then there are the ones that want a spider, but think a quick caresheet-fix is enough. They also end up here with why the spider is in bad shape.
There are also people who take the time to research and make a good effort at providing the right care but are confused by different sources saying different things. They come here for the fine tuning like @VanessaS mentioned.

 

[cold blood]

Heres another reason they suck....care sheets imply a rigid manner of keeping, which is just not the case. Considering just the climate one lives in makes care of the same species differrent....on top of that you could easily have 3 people keeping the same t drastically differrent, yet all are essentially being kept properly.

For instance, poec54 basically keeps poecs like terrestrials, i only keep adults arboreally, most always keep them arboreally....yet all three merhods of keeping are proven to work equally well, despite being considerably differrent....and that doesnt even touch on the differrences in keeping with regards to our individual clumates.

Living in the north, where much of the year is cold and dry, i need to do things much much differrently than say, someone keeping the same thing in Florida. Also, if i kept my ts the same way in winter that i do in summer i would have all kinds of issues.

Climate plays a big role in keeping, and no one care sheet will ever cover all keepers in every climate....but no matter where the person is, the care sheet will say the exact same thing.

A care sheet for me in winter, would kill southern ts in a warm, humid climate.

 

[Vanessa]

I live in the north too and I keep my Brachypelma smithi exactly as those care sheets suggest I should. Although I find myself filling everyone's water dish far more often than I would in the summer, because the water evaporates more quickly in the winter, I am not doing anything vastly different for that species than I would in the summer. Same with a number of the others species I have.
Do you keep yours differently? Do you keep your G.pulchripes differently?
Again, more advanced species require more specific care as I stated. That is part of the reason why they are considered 'advanced'. The bulk of those people looking for care information are people who are new to the hobby and likely have one of the hardier, drier environment species. If you are beyond that stage, then you should very much be aware that intermediate and advanced species require more specific care and more research.
My point is that care sheet information is not always garbage, as my above post shows. The information found on this forum regarding that species is not going to be drastically different, although maybe a bit more detailed, than the online care sheets that I found for it.
Those people who are keeping their tarantulas in completely inadequate conditions have not done any research at all and have likely relied on pet shops for their care information. Even doing the minimum amount of online research is going to provide you with guidelines that are not always garbage.

 

[Ungoliant]

I disagree, IMO care sheets offer only disadvantages.. it matters not how concise and organized they appear if theyre full of nonsense.

I'm not saying that a care sheet is good if it's full of misinformation, only that a concise, organized format is more user-friendly (especially if the other option is piecing together information posted across multiple replies or even multiple threads -- all while not necessarily knowing how to tell good advice from bad advice).

I understand why you might not want to use the term "care sheet" after years of trying to discourage people from relying on all the bad care sheets out there, but a concise guide on the basic care regimens would be helpful to novice keepers. (Yes, this information is in The Tarantula Keeper's Guide, but new keepers may not have a copy, and some experienced keepers take issue with some of the recommendations.)

Plus, it would give the regulars a handy link to use when people ask common care questions.

Heres another reason they suck....care sheets imply a rigid manner of keeping, which is just not the case. Considering just the climate one lives in makes care of the same species differrent....on top of that you could easily have 3 people keeping the same t drastically differrent, yet all are essentially being kept properly.

As I mentioned earlier, experienced keepers understand that there isn't just one right way to keep a tarantula. But surely there are some foolproof setups for the common beginner species? Things we can all agree won't harm the tarantula?

 

[Andrea82]

I'm not saying that a care sheet is good if it's full of misinformation, only that a concise, organized format is more user-friendly (especially if the other option is piecing together information posted across multiple replies or even multiple threads -- all while not necessarily knowing how to tell good advice from bad advice).

I understand why you might not want to use the term "care sheet" after years of trying to discourage people from relying on all the bad care sheets out there, but a concise guide on the basic care regimens would be helpful to novice keepers. (Yes, this information is in The Tarantula Keeper's Guide, but new keepers may not have a copy, and some experienced keepers take issue with some of the recommendations.)

Plus, it would give the regulars a handy link to use when people ask common care questions.

As I mentioned earlier, experienced keepers understand that there isn't just one right way to keep a tarantula. But surely there are some foolproof setups for the common beginner species? Things we can all agree won't harm the tarantula?

A link to common questions and beginner info ready exists in the stickies in Tarantula Questions and Discussions as well as in Tarantula Chat. In all caps, some of them. But new people don't seem to bother and just post the question without having read any of the info.

 

[Ungoliant]

A link to common questions and beginner info ready exists in the stickies in Tarantula Questions and Discussions as well as in Tarantula Chat. In all caps, some of them. But new people don't seem to bother and just post the question without having read any of the info.

That's true, but the Beginner Info sticky doesn't conspicuously link to the threads that answer basic questions like "how do I take care of my [starter tarantula]?" For that sort of question, the closest-looking match is the thread labeled "Beginner care advice." Yet that thread, while it answers some common questions, isn't exactly Tarantula Keeping 101. And even when you do see a thread that is on topic, there is still a fair amount of sifting through replies that may or may not be on topic.

I'm not saying that the "Beginner Info" sticky does not contain useful information. (I have found information I wanted in that sticky.) All I am saying is that I don't fully understand the general resistance to providing basic care information in a concise format (especially with some caveats like "there isn't necessarily one right approach" or "this is merely intended as an introduction to the care of commonly kept beginner species").

I get the sense that this is not a new debate, and I don't expect to change anyone's mind. (Besides, it's unlikely that I'm saying anything that hasn't been said before in the 14+ years this site has been running.) So I'll stop beating the dead horse.

 

[Python]

I would be willing to bet the farm that if anyone on this site ever created a list of care sheets for beginners, they would immediately follow it up with a rant about how their own information that they just presented would kill your T's simply because the term "Care sheet" is at the top of the page. It's a habit here, always has been. There is such a stigma on this board about care sheets that I find it humorous. I've been a member here for over a decade and no, this is nothing new. In fact, things used to be much worse on the "Use the search function" front. No matter what question someone asked, that was the inevitable reply. That said, I think it would be awesome for some of the nay sayers to do a little digging. I've googled lots of things relating to tarantulas and scorpions over the years and one thing I've noticed is that about 99% of the search results brought me here. Sometimes virtually all of the search results sent me here. Think about this for a moment. The biggest recurring theme I've seen here is that care sheets kill. When looking for care sheets, more often than not I wind up here. Does that mean that this site kills? Of course not. Has anyone ever thought about what a beginner sees when they look for stuff on the internet? Since my first day on here I've noticed that there are always the cranky ones that simply want to argue no matter what and I've always asked the question, how does that help? People are here for many reasons. Some are here for camaraderie, some for answers, some just to troll. There are new people coming here all the time. What should their first impression be? People arguing over whether we should offer newbies a section that they can peruse without jumping right into the fray? I've seen people say that tarantulas are so easy to keep and people should ignore temps and humidity levels yet turn right around and say that care sheets can't cover the complex nuances that tarantulas require. Which is it? Keep em on dirt with water and that's about it or it's just too complicated to go into in a care sheet? I think my first assertion is closer to home. If someone were to write a care sheet, they would immediately have to attack their self in an attempt to save people from the evil care sheet.

 

[Vanessa]

I've seen people say that tarantulas are so easy to keep and people should ignore temps and humidity levels yet turn right around and say that care sheets can't cover the complex nuances that tarantulas require. Which is it? Keep em on dirt with water and that's about it or it's just too complicated to go into in a care sheet? I think my first assertion is closer to home.

I get the impression that it is not so much what you read, or hear, but who it comes from. There is definitely personal agenda business going on that some members deem more important than the welfare of tarantulas.
For instance, a member reaches out to someone who has the experience and knowledge to help their tarantula, who had a bad moult prior to purchase, and instead of being given information to help the tarantula, the member instead decides to stick it to them because of their personal feelings. Once a person allows their personal feelings about someone to trump whether they provide information to help the animal, then they are only kidding themselves that they are an asset to the animals anymore. I think that vilifying care sheets is often used to ensure that people maintain their status in the hobby when the truth is that there are plenty of resources for good information if you take the time to look.
Where this forum excels is in the fact that there are a lot of people here, at all times throughout the day, to help with emergency situations. But, if people are going to be selective in the information that they provide in emergencies, or only provide it to those they deem worthy of their vast knowledge, then it doesn't really excel in that aspect either.
There are countless people who are keeping tarantulas, around the world, who are thriving and they are doing it without being a member of this forum.

 

[Python]

Like I said earlier, when googling care sheets, the vast majority of hits directs you to this very site. People that are down on care sheets need to realize that and try to understand that the very care sheets they are putting down are right here in their own backyard.

 

[Andrea82]

It would make answering beginner questions easier if we had a sort of basic list, although i use EulersK's AraneAid to help out, and Viper69's thread about Avicularia a lot.
I don't know if we can all agree to the same basics though.
A special section for beginners would be nice, i only hope that new keepers will use it, instead of posting right away. Even when i've referred to links, there are only a few who actually read the info in the link.