can you tame t's?

[speedreader]

there are many many studies like this, usually on mice though; the LSD ones were awesome. Mice choose LSD over sex/food/lack of pain.

 

[P. Novak]

Here simply put, no Ts cannot be tamed, trained, or anything like that. They just can't remember. All they go by is instinct and reaction, nothing more.

 

[ironmonkey78]

Hmm I thought the food seeking thing was ingrained in their instincts not a thought process, just like mating and such is instinct as well.
I have to find the article where they put some electrified string in a tank, and every time the fish neared the string the shocked the fish. The fish kept coming back to it over and over again, and getting shocked over and over again. To me that shows no capacity to learn or retain.
Someone on here I think it was maybe Codemonkey shared an experiment with roaches.... an electrified plate that would shock the roach if it had all 6 of its legs down on the plate but if it lifted one up the shocking would stop. It eventually learned to keep on leg up. There was something else about then they cut off the head and the body still lifted one leg. I might be wrong but I was amazed by that study.

lemme know if you find this article, that would be a great read. with regards to before. If a tarantula doesnt become used to being held then what is the change. maybe it is us that are subliminally gaining knowledge through our interactions with them and unconciously using that knowledge the next time we handle them.

has anyone done any tests to see how long the temporary memory lasts. I know with the fish ive had experience fly fishing and if you dont get him on the first or second bite they know not to take that fly anymore and you have to change your tactics.

 

[lychas]

i have seen tests done on fish for memory and they are really quite smart, older fish actually teach the younger fosh how to survive

 

[speedreader]

I doubt that many serious scientists care about spiders' memory span, unfortunately.

 

[Talkenlate04]

If a tarantula doesnt become used to being held then what is the change. maybe it is us that are subliminally gaining knowledge through our interactions with them and unconciously using that knowledge the next time we handle them.

I kinda agree with there being a change. I have a MM right now and when I got him he was a nutcase. But the only time I was handling him was right before introducing him into a female’s tank. Now when I touch him he barely moves and crawls right onto my hand stays there till he’s in the females tank then does his thing....... but you could easily disprove that by saying he's past his prime and getting older weaker. Same with female Ts that seem to become calmer with more handling, you could say they ran out of oxygen and are tired, and "acting" calmer. Even the calmest of Ts I have are prone to being startled into a defensive reaction so I don't really think they are learning anything.

 

[speedreader]

i am sure they have some extremely limited learning capacity; otherwise, survival of the fittest would have kicked in long ago, and all of us would be collecting scorpions instead .

 

[cacoseraph]

No offense but you could not be more wrong. They don't remember things like being handled. They are simpler then that, they react rather then remember.

i am going to have to disagree here... the first time i free handle some spiders they WILL NOT voluntarily walk on me... but by the ~10th time they make no never mind about it. typically arboreals are subject to this pattern. i think it is likely they have boosted chemoreceptors on their feet and i register as something not good to walk on.... but after i dump them on me a few times they accumulate enough experience on the substrate that is me to recategorize it as no threat.

it literally took me a half hour to get my big P. regalis onto me... the last time i did it it took about ~30 seconds. factor of 60 reduction in time.

i would say she changed behavior based on experience, which is pretty freakin close to a reasonable definition of learning.

i've seen the same with other poeci's, heteroscodra, avicularia.

terrestrials have never really hesitated to walk on me. apprently i am more like dirt than a tree. good to know, i suppose. hehehehe.

 

[cacoseraph]

I doubt that many serious scientists care about spiders' memory span, unfortunately.

why not? human memory is too complex for us to fully digest at this point in time. all kinds of studies use bugs. plus, you can take bugs apart and only suffer the worst fools whining about it.

 

[ironmonkey78]

I kinda agree with there being a change. I have a MM right now and when I got him he was a nutcase. But the only time I was handling him was right before introducing him into a female’s tank. Now when I touch him he barely moves and crawls right onto my hand stays there till he’s in the females tank then does his thing....... but you could easily disprove that by saying he's past his prime and getting older weaker. Same with female Ts that seem to become calmer with more handling, you could say they ran out of oxygen and are tired, and "acting" calmer. Even the calmest of Ts I have is prone to being startled into a defensive reaction so I don't really think they are learning anything.

what I really meant here was that maybe what we learn from handling that particular T stays with us when we handle it the next time and we are unconciously projecting that onto the T thereby making it seem like the tarantula has become accustom to whatever activity we are doing when really its us who are making little changes.
course its still nice to think that your T is getting used to you holding it and maybe, just maybe, your starting to make friends.

 

[Feathers]

Fishies

Each spring after winter thaw, I have to teach my goldfish all over again. They'll eventually come to my hand for food but lose it over winter.

 

[KaineSoulblade]

No offense but you could not be more wrong. They don't remember things like being handled. They are simpler then that, they react rather then remember.

And no offense to you sir. While I believe they aren't creatures of learning and memories, they are creatures of adaption and reacting to their environtments. Which inplies they can adapt to being handled without feeling threatened.

Take two T's from slings and raise one with handling and the other never touched. Try to get that never touched T out with your bare hands when matured. I sure as heck wouldn't. But as an owner who does handle my T's on a daily basis they all react in a docile fashion as they have adapted to the daily routine.
This is based on my tarantulas and friends that do as I and other friends that like 'display pets'. 9 out of 10 of the display pets are defensive or skittish. While the statistics are reverse for those who hold thier T's regularly (accounting one or two of them just having aggresive or defensive personalities.)

 

[Talkenlate04]

That proves nothing really. They still can't be tamed. You cannot teach a T how to not bite you, if it wants to it's going to. You can't teach it to stay, or sit. I will agree they may be able to adapt to what is happening (handling), but that is nowhere near taming or teaching.

 

[KaineSoulblade]

That proves nothing really. They still can't be tamed. You cannot teach a T how to not bite you, if it wants to it's going to. You can't teach it to stay, or sit. I will agree they may be able to adapt to what is happening (handling), but that is nowhere near taming or teaching.

Then you and I agree completely. You had told the guy that he couldn't be more wrong- pertaining to holding them on a regular basis might get them used to it. Not pertaining to teaching tricks, or not biting.
I don't believe they can be trained to do tricks or not bite either. Every single day I am prepared to be bitten. It may or may not ever happen but I'm at ease with the possibility.

 

[Drachenjager]

How can it be aggression? She would not have attacked if you had not stuck the chopsticks in the tank near her, so that’s a reaction thus defensiveness. Same with dropping something in the tank, she is reacting in defense.

Right , now if you were walking down the street in a nice town in Chile and it ran out of its burrow across the desert and jumped on your face like a face hugger in aliens , they it would be agressive . I have never seen an agressive T. I have seen some that were agressivly defensive tho ROTFLOL

 

[Drachenjager]

They are somewhat like fish, most fish like a goldfish have a memory span of less then 1 second. But the cool part is even with a tiny brain and no memory capacity they remember were food was dropped in the tank and at about what time each day.
So with that in mind. Maybe Ts could learn a thing or two. Nothing like roll over or don't bite me. But who knows.

hmmm im not so sure abou that , Mythbusters did that one a few days ago and trained some goldfish to go through some hoops to get to some food....

 

[Drachenjager]

i am sure they have some extremely limited learning capacity; otherwise, survival of the fittest would have kicked in long ago, and all of us would be collecting scorpions instead .

centipedes would eat the scorps lol

 

[Snipes]

People always like to say that "x" doesnt think or doesnt have memory or this and that. I am sure that tarantulas cannot write books but I think they are more than some people think. For example, goldfish do have longer memories, and i believe there may have been evidence that fish can feel pain. (In my last program it was mentioned but no article or such was at hand). Of course, there are different kinds of memory. Some people with brain injuries can improve at tasks without remembering it. Their bodies do remember it. With tarantulas I wonder why first time mothers are not as good as experienced mothers. Can I even say the word "experienced"? They are brainless bundles of instincts after all, just like goldfish...wait a minute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish
Why are wild caught almost always more nervous than their captive bred cousins and their captive bred offspring. Of course, then people have problems with different kinds of intelligence. Clever Hans is a great example. He was a stupid horse, he can't actually do arithmetic. But then, he could read the signals of everyone who asked him the questions who knew the answer that he could see. I would call that intelligent, but not human intelligence. Basically, I think that the notion that tarantulas are bundles or instincts is wrapped up in prejudice as well as science. Some people go way too far on both sides. As far as taming, I think that tarantulas can in a way be tamed if you are liberal with the label. I think they can learn to accept human "smell/touch/chemicals" as being not deadly threatening. However, we touch everything with our hands and the chemical signatures would not be the same every time. I find it difficult to believe that they can identify for sure "person" every time because of that. Also, when people hold a certain tarantula for a while with no incident, they tend to get calmer which does well for the tarantula. You cannot train a tarantula not to bite, but you could argue that you cannot FULLY train a dog not to bite either in any circumstance. Speedreader is right, most people don't care about them but I would love it if there were more tests done.

 

[P. Novak]

People always like to say that "x" doesnt think or doesnt have memory or this and that. I am sure that tarantulas cannot write books but I think they are more than some people think. For example, goldfish do have longer memories, and i believe there may have been evidence that fish can feel pain. (In my last program it was mentioned but no article or such was at hand). Of course, there are different kinds of memory. Some people with brain injuries can improve at tasks without remembering it. Their bodies do remember it. With tarantulas I wonder why first time mothers are not as good as experienced mothers. Can I even say the word "experienced"? They are brainless bundles of instincts after all, just like goldfish...wait a minute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish
Why are wild caught almost always more nervous than their captive bred cousins and their captive bred offspring. Of course, then people have problems with different kinds of intelligence. Clever Hans is a great example. He was a stupid horse, he can't actually do arithmetic. But then, he could read the signals of everyone who asked him the questions who knew the answer that he could see. I would call that intelligent, but not human intelligence. Basically, I think that the notion that tarantulas are bundles or instincts is wrapped up in prejudice as well as science. Some people go way too far on both sides. As far as taming, I think that tarantulas can in a way be tamed if you are liberal with the label. I think they can learn to accept human "smell/touch/chemicals" as being not deadly threatening. However, we touch everything with our hands and the chemical signatures would not be the same every time. I find it difficult to believe that they can identify for sure "person" every time because of that. Also, when people hold a certain tarantula for a while with no incident, they tend to get calmer which does well for the tarantula. You cannot train a tarantula not to bite, but you could argue that you cannot FULLY train a dog not to bite either in any circumstance. Speedreader is right, most people don't care about them but I would love it if there were more tests done.

wow, well put. :clap:

You got me really thinking about this now..

 

[speedreader]

why not? human memory is too complex for us to fully digest at this point in time. all kinds of studies use bugs. plus, you can take bugs apart and only suffer the worst fools whining about it.

1 word: mice

more words: mice are much simpler but resemble humans much more; I don't think there is too much useful info to be gleaned from spider memory given current tech level.