Breeding loan thoughts

lucanidae

Arachnoprince
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Ok, here's the deal. I have a male spider that someone is loaning to me. He is not tapping at all after several months worth of bi-weekly intros. The owner wants to send him along to another party.

In your opinion, if a male is to be sent to another party because he is not tapping for my female, who should be the one to pay the shipping? Me... because I currently have the male on loan, or the owner of the male... the person who actually has a chance of getting some slings out of sending it along?

Open to all thoughts, thanks everyone.
 

Varden

Arachnodemon
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May 22, 2005
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The owner of the male is responsible for all shipping costs of the male to however many parties that male gets sent to. Or you can pay for shipping on the understanding that he pays for shipping his portion of any resulting slings from your female back to himself. But, since you've already stated that no proper mating ever took place, I would tell him that you'll send the male to whomever he likes just as soon as you receive payment for shipping.
 

KaineSoulblade

Arachnoknight
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Yeah the owner of said Tarantula definately needs to pay all costs concearning his or her spider.
 

GoTerps

Arachnoking
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IMO, (unless otherwise agreed upon) you are responsible for either shipping the male back to the owner, or onto another person. This is the standard of every breeding loan I've ever been a part of.

Eric
 

Varden

Arachnodemon
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Sorry, but the only shipping charges that the owner of the female is responsible for would be the 50/50 split if successful. It's the owner of the male who decided the T should be shipped to someone else; that person is responsible for paying for that decision.
 

KaineSoulblade

Arachnoknight
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Sorry, but the only shipping charges that the owner of the female is responsible for would be the 50/50 split if successful. It's the owner of the male who decided the T should be shipped to someone else; that person is responsible for paying for that decision.
Exactly, the owner of the female, the one responsible for the mating process and the sack is doing the work. Not to mention owns the spider capable of producing offspring. To have to pay to ship someone else's male to another person for breeding is bunk, you won't be getting a cut of the sack. It's like paying for nothing.
 

GoTerps

Arachnoking
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Guess I'm not sending you any males {D JK Maren:)

But honestly, the standard loan that I've always been a part of (and I've been apart of A LOT of loans) has always required the owner of the female to do 2 things... ship the offspring back to the owner of the male (if there are offspring) and ship the male back to the owner or onto someone else (Unless the owner of the male instructs differently).

I wouldn't agree to anything else.

Eric
 

KaineSoulblade

Arachnoknight
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Shipping the male back is fine, if the breeding was successful. Because you can ship it back with the 50/50 cut at no additional shipping costs. That is the ideal of a 50/50 you both put in the same and both get back. Having the male produce no effects and not getting a sack is a different story. That's when the owner of the male needs to figure out what to do with him and pay for it. If that male goes off and makes a sack elsewhere then you just paid shipping to do all the work of trying to get them to mate, which does take time and effort out of your day. The owner of the male doesn't have to do anything but send the T out.
 

lucanidae

Arachnoprince
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I see what GoTerps is saying. But in the past I've always shipped surviving males back with the resulting slings, it's never been two separate shipments. I've passed males on before and the owner has always just offered to pay.

I actually already agreed to pay to ship the male, it isn't a huge deal but I couldn't find any 'standard' for this situation so I thought I'd bring it up. I see already we have two staunch stances.

To put in my own two cents, I think it's the owner of the male's responsibility.
 

GoTerps

Arachnoking
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I actually already agreed to pay to ship the male, it isn't a huge deal but I couldn't find any 'standard' for this situation so I thought I'd bring it up.
Personally, I've always thought Todd's writeup explains it well... CLICK HERE.

Eric
 

lucanidae

Arachnoprince
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Ahh, but I read that. Todd doesn't specify on this situation at all. He touches it here:

The most popular terms that most of the hobby as learned to accept is the keeper with the male pays for shipping the male to the owner of the female and that person in returns promises 50% of the "potential" hatchout or offspring
So the person who pays to ship the male gets a promise of 50% of the potential hatchout. But if you are passing a male along no such promise is agreed too, thus negating the paying for shipping of the male.
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
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i have always paid to move my males to each person... but when all the random females produce get that means i have 50% of each, free and clear
 

WyvernsLair

Arachnobaron
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The owner of the female should not have to be burdened with the cost of shipping someone else's spider. For each separate loan agreement that the owner of the male enters into - he/she is responsible for the shipping costs. If the male happens to already be on loan to one person and he/she wishes to send the male on to another person, then he needs to send money to the person currently housing the male. Once that person has money to cover the shipping of the male they would then send the male on to the next designated person. The owner of the female only pays shipping if there was a successful hatching of spiderlings and is sending the portion of spiderlings belonging to the owner of the male to him/her.
 

verry_sweet

Arachnobaron
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IMO, (unless otherwise agreed upon) you are responsible for either shipping the male back to the owner, or onto another person. This is the standard of every breeding loan I've ever been a part of.

Eric

Thats how I do it also.
 

GoTerps

Arachnoking
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This confirms that both parties need to be clear on the terms of the arrangement before the male is shipped.

I would not send someone a male if they weren't prepared to pay to ship it on, or back to me.

Eric
 

verry_sweet

Arachnobaron
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He is not tapping at all after several months worth of bi-weekly intros. The owner wants to send him along to another party.

the person who actually has a chance of getting some slings out of sending it along?


Wait…..He’s never hooked up with your female? Have you tried to let them hook up?
 

lucanidae

Arachnoprince
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I have tried every trick I know to get them to mate. I've bred over a dozen theraphosid species successfully in the past three years. This pair just isn't working out.
 

arrowhd

Arachnolord
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Dec 22, 2006
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Ok, let me get this straight. I spend say $25 to overnight ship my adult male to you. Lets say for what ever reason the mating doesn't work out. So then you expect me to send you $25 to ship the male back to me? Where would the 50/50 come into play?
 

padkison

Arachnoangel
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Dec 8, 2005
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This is very timely for me as I am involved in two breeding loans now.

The first one I paid for the male to come to me and the shipper is paying for the slings to go back to him.

The second one I am sending my male to an owner with a female and paying shipping and he will pay to ship my 50% (knock on wood) back to me. I was told this was the standard and it fits with Todd's explanation (thanks for the link).

I think that sending a male on to a second female should be at the expense of the owner of the male. Otherwise the owner of the female is paying a cost he normally would not have incurred and gets no additional benefit. In fact the owner of the female will lose money via "supply and demand" if multiple sacs of the same species become available at the same time.
 
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