blasphemy at its worst read this now!!

[Vys]

Gah, yes, i'm gonna howl with the pack here, he SHOULDN'T sell hybrids

 

[Ephesians]

Just my two cents. Anyone endorsing hybrids for a second time (first is bad enough), and who can't even spell pterinochilus shouldn't be allowed to even breed himself. (stupid people should remain sterile).

In Him
Marcus

PS. Sorry, I'm usually not one to judge, but absolute ignorance, neglegance and plain retardism (even a word? ) deserves it.

 

[Chris]

If this really is the 2nd time he has offered hybrids for sale then there is obviously a market for it whether purists agree with the ethics or not. Its the same as price-fixed spiders... if you want one spend the money... if you not then dont buy one.

I have mixed feelings on hybrid breeding, but I am not going to ostracize someone in public for doing it. There are much better battles for me to fight.

 

[Vys]

Hah, there might be a lone loon buying all hybrids he can get his claws on, waiting with drooling fangs for the day he can raise up above the earth and make everyone eat dirt and muck and hybridspiderlegs for fast-break..

 

[krucz36]

i met paul at the san diego reptile show, and picked up two animals from him...now i'm worried about what i got! the two pokeys look good, but who knows...sigh. poor little buggers. this is pretty disappointing stuff.

 

[kellygirl]

my question is why would you take 2 species that are magnificently beautiful and need no improvement and then cross-breed them?

kellygirl

 

[krucz36]

such a compellin' question it hadda be asked twice.

 

[Mister Internet]

You can delete your posts!

Hello all...

<MOD>

You are able to delete posts when you make an accidental double- or triple-post. Click the "Edit" button as you would if you were making changes to your post, and you will see the option to delete at the top of the edit page that comes up. Simply select the box, and press the delete button. Simple as that!

Thanks for making our job easier!

...tom

</MOD>

 

[Tarantula Lover]

hmm

i was thinking of getting one, cheap price $13! It looks cool, do ya guys think i should get one? I dont know anything on hybrids? Can you guys give me info on them? Thanks,

James

 

[Advocatus]

Um ... he has a whipscorpion beeing sold as a cave spider?
Now thats something you don't see every day ...

 

[kellygirl]

Re: hmm

Originally posted by Tarantula Lover
i was thinking of getting one, cheap price $13! It looks cool, do ya guys think i should get one? I dont know anything on hybrids? Can you guys give me info on them? Thanks,

James

you should look at his review in the 'online dealer reviews' forum. it doesnt look like this guy is the most reliable dealer out there. you would do better to order from someone who is consistent and honest. it appears that paul is neither.

kellygirl

 

[Valael]

Heh, my first online buy was from him -- Went pretty well, I suppose. Everything came with 8 legs and is alive months later.


(Although the giant white knee is growing slow as all hell)

 

[Code Monkey]

Re: hmm

Originally posted by Tarantula Lover
i was thinking of getting one, cheap price $13! It looks cool, do ya guys think i should get one? I dont know anything on hybrids? Can you guys give me info on them? Thanks,

James, a hybrid is the offspring between two closely related species. By definition they can't interbreed amongst themselves unless the different species are actually so closely related as to be considered subspecies. As an example you are probably familiar with, consider a chihuahua and a wolf, although they look very different, they are the same super species - Canis lupus - but are different subspecies and can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. Conversely, horses and donkeys are commonly crossed to produce mules of which the males are sterile, but the females can be backcrossed to a male horse - close, but no banana for subspecies.

In this case someone has crossed the two very closely related Psalmopoeus species to produce something that is a mix of both parents. If Martin's report is correct, then they actually are subspecies of one another in reality if not officially. Strangely enough, that report makes this into a more grey area because although I am very much against hybrids, where do you draw the line when they should be subspecies? As an aside, James, arachnology is very weird and incorrect in that it does not assign subspecies status but declares them to be separate species even though any non-arachnologist biologist would recognise them as subspecies - hopefully this will change as it's wrong and creates more confusion than it solves.

At any rate, if you were to get one it would look something like a mix between a suntiger and a chevron and would behave like a typical Psalmopoeus. However, even assuming they really are subspecies, I would not buy it. Paul is clearly too uninformed to know about the European evidence that they are subspecies, so he is selling them fully intending to sell a deliberately created hybrid. Buying them just tells him that there is a market for these unusual Ts and will only prompt him to do it again. Personally, I'd suggest you boycott him and let him suffer for being ignorant - there's plenty of other cool Ts out there and plenty of dealers who actually know what is what and how to spell and label things correctly without giving business to Arachnocenter.

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by monantony
Well here goes...
Try and think about hybrids in a postive light... Say for instance in the hands of the knowledgable and responsible...I myself have my male boehmi slated for my female smithi's because I would like to see what the cross looks like....That way in the future when someone introduces some rare new species we can have some insight what hybrids look like.

But I presume in this case you would be culling the majority of the slings and only raising enough to find out their appearance and not selling or otherwise distributing the mongrels. There's a difference between responsible hybridisation in the interest of learning and spreading information and hybridisation because "Shucks, ain't that cool, my zebra's banging my bloodleg!"

 

[Tarantula Lover]

Re: Re: hmm

Originally posted by Code Monkey
James, a hybrid is the offspring between two closely related species. By definition they can't interbreed amongst themselves unless the different species are actually so closely related as to be considered subspecies. As an example you are probably familiar with, consider a chihuahua and a wolf, although they look very different, they are the same super species - Canis lupus - but are different subspecies and can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. Conversely, horses and donkeys are commonly crossed to produce mules of which the males are sterile, but the females can be backcrossed to a male horse - close, but no banana for subspecies.

In this case someone has crossed the two very closely related Psalmopoeus species to produce something that is a mix of both parents. If Martin's report is correct, then they actually are subspecies of one another in reality if not officially. Strangely enough, that report makes this into a more grey area because although I am very much against hybrids, where do you draw the line when they should be subspecies? As an aside, James, arachnology is very weird and incorrect in that it does not assign subspecies status but declares them to be separate species even though any non-arachnologist biologist would recognise them as subspecies - hopefully this will change as it's wrong and creates more confusion than it solves.

At any rate, if you were to get one it would look something like a mix between a suntiger and a chevron and would behave like a typical Psalmopoeus. However, even assuming they really are subspecies, I would not buy it. Paul is clearly too uninformed to know about the European evidence that they are subspecies, so he is selling them fully intending to sell a deliberately created hybrid. Buying them just tells him that there is a market for these unusual Ts and will only prompt him to do it again. Personally, I'd suggest you boycott him and let him suffer for being ignorant - there's plenty of other cool Ts out there and plenty of dealers who actually know what is what and how to spell and label things correctly without giving business to Arachnocenter.

Thanks Code Monkey~! That answers all of my Questions! I have decided not to get one, i read the reviews and he has negatives! Thanks!

James

 

[Hamadryad]

Paul Becker and Arachnocenter

Well,
I have known Paul for about 2 years now and I even worked for him at the old PetCenterUSA for awhile as well.He IS a tad on the shifty side I am afraid but I think you have to know him personally to see that he is not ALL bad.I have never really known what possessed him to sell PetCenterUSA and wreak havoc on the store - all I know now is that he has a cool little store that is nothing but inverts now....Arachnocenter.....I think I am going to have to maybe sit down and have a chat with him about all this hybridization business and see if he will tell me what he is up to - I rather like the guy as he got me into the tarantula hobby and I have learned most of what I know from working for PetCenterUSA when I did...it is unfortunate that perhaps he is making a bad name for himself as I have been trying to help him get Arachnocenter up and running...it really IS a beautiful little store and I have picked up two really nice Black Chinese Earthtigers from there in the last month...I guess I will talk to Paul and see if I can suggest to him diplomatically that since I am out there trying to drum up business for him maybe he could stop getting everybody mad at him...we will see...

The Spider Hunter

 

[Phillip]

for the record...

I'm totally against hybrid Ts regardless of someones so calloed intentions being good. With as many fantastic species around and as many of them as we cant get here the focus should be on breeding and establishing what we have.

And on the suntiger chevron possible subspecies note... not to stir up any crap but color isn't the only difference. There is also the larger size of the chevron which makes me question the subspecies theory.

Phil

 

[JDS]

Originally posted by monantony
I for one would love to know if my 6" baumgarteni is reproducible in 'the lab'.....
In a hobby where people like to 'collect' every available member of a genus, there is great financial incentive to create one. My idea is to press on and try and get more breedable smithi females. I'll post you some pics in say 4 years.... :}
Tony
PS having said that, my B baum is among my most stunning brachy's even if it turns out to be a hybrid [/B]

I had a chance to ask R. West about Brachypelma hybrids and he indicated that "crossbreeding naturally occurs between B. smithi and B. boehmei to produce what was unfortunately called B. baumgarteni", so the question would be is there any difference between what naturally occurs and what a pet owner could breed. I for one would like to know if any one has ever successfully bred a baumgarteni WC or a known created cross between boehmei/smithi.

 

[Kenny]

No hybrids.

I'm a rookie , but from my point of view this is bad/sad.

Kenny

 

[Phillip]

Wasn't meant that way....

Tony
I wasn't directing that at you sorry if it read that way but what I meant to be more specific was that if someone produces hybrids and say gives a few to friends well regardless of how well said person may know them there is no way to know for a fact that they wont someday enter the hobby as something they are not. Not to mention that hybrids just seem to be a waste of time period when not nearly enough captive breeding takes place as is. I would much rather see people focus on stabilizing the captive bred part of the hobby before playing around with creating mutts. Perhaps if Ts were bred with the regularity of say corn snakes then like the jungle corns I could overlook it easier. Thats all.

And on the baumgarteni correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that when 2 species cross naturally in the wild and it proves to be fertile then it is a subspecies and not a hybrid. From what I understand the baumgarteni should be fertile but I guess only time will tell.

Phil