blasphemy at its worst read this now!!

Weapon-X

Arachnodemon
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Jul 19, 2002
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I just went and was looking at arachnocenter.com paul becker is selling crossbreeds between v. suntigers and trinidad chevrons apparently 'bred by a customer'' has anyone else seen this? Go check it out its down the list http://www.arachnocenter.com/ someone needs to stop his lunacy.---Jeff
 
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Mister Internet

Big Meanie Doo Doo Head :)
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That is pretty awful... "customer" eh? I've never dealt with the guy personally, but I've heard things that make me think this is pretty par for the course... oh well... hopefully no one supports the effort and people will know to quit selling them..
 

TypeO-

Arachnopeon
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Nov 2, 2002
Messages
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what a waste, some good captive breeding could've been done rather that have a batch of cross breeds that "might" make it. Very sad.
 

The_Phantom

Scarlet O' Hairy
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Aug 20, 2002
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Do cross breeds usually not make it ? Thats sad. Can cross breeding occur naturally among wild Ts ?
 

Chris

Arachnoknight
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Aug 9, 2002
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As long as they are clearly identified as hybrids and not a misleading new name it is tolerable.

Basically it is buy at your own risk as far as I think.
 

LaRiz

Arachnodemon
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Everybody knows what they need to do, or better yet, what NOT to do. Right ;)
There are plenty of other dealers to order your spiders from, that will not offer hybrids, that could possibly pollute pure blood.
 
T

Tarantula

Guest
The spiderlings sure are nice though. I would look into buying one but I would never breed it.
 

Kugellager

ArachnoJester
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The cross between P.irminia and P.cambridgei are supposed to be infertile and not look all that impressive.

John
];')
 

Arachnopuppy

Arachnodemon
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The offsprings of such hybrid attempts are infertile. Just think of them as a mule- cross bred between a horse and a donkey.
 

Immortal_sin

Arachnotemptress
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Jul 17, 2002
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I don't think this is the first time this has happened with this particular person :eek:
Since I don't buy anything from there anyway, I know I'm not supporting that site, or ANYTHING to do with it.
 

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor
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Jul 22, 2002
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Gah!

Now that takes the mf'n cake in my book. He did this once before that I know of and took a ton of crap so you'd think just maybe he'd be bright enough not to do it again, but no. Don't think I'll ever recommend him again, he's just too damn stupid of a dealer for his or anyone else's good.
 

Weapon-X

Arachnodemon
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Jul 19, 2002
Messages
774
re

the way i look at is : not only does he mislabel a lot of his stuff, and i've heard stories of people getting undersized t's as advetised and injured ones, and ones that die soon after, but now hes condoning hybridization! i truly beleave he cares nothing for the hobby except to make a quick buck, i just thought this was something that really needed to be brought to everyones attention for those who did'nt see it, i will never support his efforts , and i bet that they were'nt from a ''customer'' as it states below the pic of them--Jeff
 

LaRiz

Arachnodemon
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Hey people, please remember that not all hybrids are sterile. The male mule X female horse is always used as an example, I know. And yes, a jackass is sterile. My understanding is, you take two species of the same genera (maybe even separate genera), that reproduce. If the offspring of that coupling go on to reproduce, then a sub-species status is given. Thus, polluting a bloodline if the offspring is carelessly discarded, distributed to the hands of the irresponsible. I don't know a great deal about genetics, but maybe I'm wrong.
Honey bees brought to Brazil from Africa (yes, the killer ones) hybridized with the european bees down there, well, you know the rest. They seem to reproduce. Maybe that's a bad example.
I've heard of this creature called a Liger. A crazy cross of a Lion and a Tiger. Most have troubles reproducing, but it is heard of. Occasionally young is born.
Like I said, I don't know much about the genetics of hybrids, etc., but I'm a purist when it comes to tarantulas. There's always that, "if" (they reproduce).
 

Martin H.

Arachnoangel
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Sep 1, 2002
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Hi,

Originally posted by Kugellager

The cross between P.irminia and P.cambridgei are supposed to be infertile and not look all that impressive.
BTW, they ARE fertile. I think it was the UK where they have been bred in the fourth or fifth generation. That would be a sign that they are only two different colour morphs of one species, but since nothing is published about these fertile crossbreedings they remain still two valid species till someone proofs it wrong.

all the best,
Martin
 

invertepet

Arachnolord
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Oct 4, 2002
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Originally posted by Martin H.
Hi,

BTW, they ARE fertile. I think it was the UK where they have been bred in the fourth or fifth generation.
That's fascinating, Martin. Do you have any references or other info on this? These two being one species would be quite big news. Fertile 'cross'breeds are definitely indicative, although perhaps irminia or cambridgei is a subspecies of the other...

bill
 

Pyrdacor

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
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Dec 23, 2002
Messages
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I try to post some biological aspects from what I know.
There are different barriers that prevent animals of different species from producing offspring. The first one is the so called precygotic barrier. This means that they can not produce offspring even if they wanted because of different kinds of isolation such as an isolation in habitat (one lives on a tree for his whole life, an the other on the surface, they possibly never meet), isolation in behaviour (a species might practice a special kind of mating dance or something which others might not do), isolation in activity (the one is active during day, the other during night), mechanic isolation (the copulation organs don't match). They second kind of barrier is the postcygote barrier which means that even if offspring results it often can not reproduce. This is due to the so called mortality of bastards (if they should make it to become adults they are often very weak), reduced fertility (they do not produce fertile sperm- or eggcells), collapse of hybrids. The last point possibly fits in the case Martin H. mentioned. But I don't really believe that that there is a fourth or fifth generation because the collaps means that the hybrids produced are fertile in the first generation but if they start mating and produce their own offspring this second generation is not fertile. So, even if it happens that an hybrid survives, there are too many barriers that it can not break through to hinder it from reproducing. Even in the worst last case mentioned they could not survive more than one generation. Hope that helps...
If they can produce fertile offspring the only solution could be what has been mentioned, that they belong to the same species. There is nothing else left...
 
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