Bioactive hamster enclosure

[Egon]

There's no benefits to having a snake with a plant and random isopods in with it. You've been tricked and you're mad about it.

LOL. You’re right — my snakes would do so much better in a bare tank than one planted with live plants that they use for cover, hide in and bask on.

There's no benefits to having a snake with a plant and random isopods in with it. You've been tricked and you're mad about it.

Keep feeding your tarantulas crickets and dubias and then laugh at people who keep their reptiles with plants that originated from a different country. Like your logic there.

 

[mickiem]

I never knew there were people who wouldn't see benefits in bioactive enclosures. I never really thought about a down side or negative side to this. I can see people doing things incorrectly but even that (except for wasting money) there's really no harm. I also can see other ways to create a healthy environment; such as a heavily planted tank to maintain humidity versus using a misting system. Or a variety of decorations to create enrichment versus an enclosure with rocks, ledges, caves, etc. I think for most animals, and rodents and mammals at the top of this list, creating a bioactive enclosure would be a challenge. For instance I mentioned my friends using an entire (large) spare bedroom for a few hedgehogs. But trying new things is what makes a hobby fun. Something may not work out, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I am excited to try new things and to see others here talk of their successes and failures. That's how we advance the hobby.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I have actually wondered if it would be possible to setup a pet hamster with soil, and enough of it, to allow them to live as they do in the wild.

First I started by learning a little about the natural history of the Syrian hamster which led to looking into the European common hamster. Apparently both the Syrian and European hamsters dig many feet into dry ground in soil types respective to the terrain of their country of origin that provide for structural integrity and drainage. Hamsters don't like being wet and won't choose a burrow location prone to high amounts of rainfall or flooding. Hamster burrows are multi-chambered with many entrances and exits. Of note in particular is their bathroom chamber. In the academic literature it is referred to as a "dead end chamber", which has only one way in and out, and is connected to the primary living chamber by a tunnel of varying distance. They also make several chambers for food storage.

After learning a little bit about their burrows in nature, it became obvious how trying to replicate and maintain it in captivity would be a daunting task. The primary factor being how one is supposed to clean the bathroom chamber and food chambers if it got too messy. One would probably need to build removable panels in a terrarium housing the hamster and hope the whole burrow structure wouldn't collapse when a panel is removed. Even then, how the heck would you clean a chamber build right smack in the middle of a terrarium? More problems came to mind when considering the type of soil to use. It would have to be a clay loam which when dry, would be like concrete. Using that type of soil in proper quantity would be so heavy the hamster cage would have to be a permanent fixture in your house, like a huge fish tank. Also, if a hamster is allowed to build a deep multi-chambered burrow in captivity, complete with food storage chambers, I could totally see a problem with pest insects like flies or even mites becoming a problem if a way to clean the depths of a burrow can't be done regularly.

I'm not at all knowledgable on hamsters- as pets or their natural history- so maybe someone can figure out how to build a hamster cage that can mimic their natural habitat. From my point of view though, I can not fathom how trying to replicate nature for a hamster could be more beneficial to their health or care than the traditional way.

 

[Edan bandoot]

I have actually wondered if it would be possible to setup a pet hamster with soil, and enough of it, to allow them to live as they do in the wild.

First I started by learning a little about the natural history of the Syrian hamster which led to looking into the European common hamster. Apparently both the Syrian and European hamsters dig many feet into dry ground in soil types respective to the terrain of their country of origin that provide for structural integrity and drainage. Hamsters don't like being wet and won't choose a burrow location prone to high amounts of rainfall or flooding. Hamster burrows are multi-chambered with many entrances and exits. Of note in particular is their bathroom chamber. In the academic literature it is referred to as a "dead end chamber", which has only one way in and out, and is connected to the primary living chamber by a tunnel of varying distance. They also make several chambers for food storage.

After learning a little bit about their burrows in nature, it became obvious how trying to replicate and maintain it in captivity would be a daunting task. The primary factor being how one is supposed to clean the bathroom chamber and food chambers if it got too messy. One would probably need to build removable panels in a terrarium housing the hamster and hope the whole burrow structure wouldn't collapse when a panel is removed. Even then, how the heck would you clean a chamber build right smack in the middle of a terrarium? More problems came to mind when considering the type of soil to use. It would have to be a clay loam which when dry, would be like concrete. Using that type of soil in proper quantity would be so heavy the hamster cage would have to be a permanent fixture in your house, like a huge fish tank. Also, if a hamster is allowed to build a deep multi-chambered burrow in captivity, complete with food storage chambers, I could totally see a problem with pest insects like flies or even mites becoming a problem if a way to clean the depths of a burrow can't be done regularly.

I'm not at all knowledgable on hamsters- as pets or their natural history- so maybe someone can figure out how to build a hamster cage that can mimic their natural habitat. From my point of view though, I can not fathom how trying to replicate nature for a hamster could be more beneficial to their health or care than the traditional way.

My thoughts on that would be making something like a giant ant setup if you get what I'm saying. (Tubes into cubes)

But the amount of space would be absurd for such a small creature

 

[Edan bandoot]

LOL. You’re right — my snakes would do so much better in a bare tank than one planted with live plants that they use for cover, hide in and bask on.



Keep feeding your tarantulas crickets and dubias and then laugh at people who keep their reptiles with plants that originated from a different country. Like your logic there.

The response i want to make would be very detailed, and would belong in a seperate thread.
Im working on 2 large threads at the moment, so it'll come when it comes.

 

[cold blood]

Bioactive is in essence an attempt at keeping the animal as close to natural as possible...but no one ever seems to consider that animals in captivity, you know the animals that avoid most of those things in their natural world, live 4-15 times longer (depending on species) than their wild counterparts...even when kept in seemingly sub-par conditions like many zoos.

Consider that and the "benefits" of bioactive are really just for the keeper being able to look at a "prettier" enclosure and not at all for any real benefit to the animal.

Every fall in cold climates we see all kinds of animals trying to get in our homes to live...why? I will tell you, because escaping nature is a HUGE benefit for survival....anything discarded by humans, be it cars, sheds, homes or boards or rock walls, etc, are all attractive to wild animals because these things provide a safer home then they could ever achieve on their own in the woods.

I love the people that make the claim that I keep my whatever animal bioactive and they love it....oh really, how are you quantifying the animal's love, are you Dr. Doolittle with the ability to communicate with these animals? I doubt it. These claims seem so real, but they are merely assumptions with no baseline for real world fact.

 

[Introvertebrate]

So an abandoned vehicle would probably be the most naturalistic habitat for most small critters.

 

[MarkJ]

Animals live 4-15 times longer (not sure there what number comes from but assuming it is accurate) in captivity because of four pretty simple points;

1) Their natural predators are eliminated
2) Their environment is stable as in no typhoons, earthquakes, hurricanes, droughts or other natural disasters
3) Their food source is stable and always available
4) Medical attention is provided or available by trained/licensed professionals

Applying these four points to any wild animal will almost assuredly increase their lifespan.

What becomes much more difficult to measure is the effectiveness of a 'bio-like' environment. For example what is the difference in lifespan for a gazelle in a zoo or one that lives in a safari with the same four points applied to both places of captivity? One could argue that a safari type environment is much more natural and 'bio-like' while a corral in a zoo is much less so. This creates a lot of questions with very difficult to find answers.

• Which one will the animal be more comfortable in?
• Does a creature's comfort increase lifespan?
• Does a creature's comfort reduce the need for medical care?
• Should quality of life be considered at all?
• Does needing less medical care correlate directly with longer lifespan?
• Is lifespan the single most important metric to use in relation to measuring a 'bio-like' environment?

Without definitive data available to answer these and a host of additional questions it becomes a herculean task to quantify how important a 'bio-like' environment is to an animal in captivity...

Just my own thoughts...

 

[mickiem]

Bioactive is in essence an attempt at keeping the animal as close to natural as possible...but no one ever seems to consider that animals in captivity, you know the animals that avoid most of those things in their natural world, live 4-15 times longer (depending on species) than their wild counterparts...even when kept in seemingly sub-par conditions like many zoos.

Consider that and the "benefits" of bioactive are really just for the keeper being able to look at a "prettier" enclosure and not at all for any real benefit to the animal.

Every fall in cold climates we see all kinds of animals trying to get in our homes to live...why? I will tell you, because escaping nature is a HUGE benefit for survival....anything discarded by humans, be it cars, sheds, homes or boards or rock walls, etc, are all attractive to wild animals because these things provide a safer home then they could ever achieve on their own in the woods.

I love the people that make the claim that I keep my whatever animal bioactive and they love it....oh really, how are you quantifying the animal's love, are you Dr. Doolittle with the ability to communicate with these animals? I doubt it. These claims seem so real, but they are merely assumptions with no baseline for real world fact.

Why yes, yes! I am Mrs. Dr. Doolittle! Thank you for noticing.

 

[aSpider]

Bioactive enclosures provide some degree of automation if they are done well. Springtails clean bits of waste that may not otherwise be picked out. Live plants provide evapotranspiration, regulating humidity instead of misting. Regular upkeep isn't eliminated but is reduced.

Obviously as stated it wouldn't be feasible for a hamster but I don't understand the kneejerk anti-bioactive sentiment that is regularly parroted here. It has it's pros and cons like any other method.

 

[Edan bandoot]

Bioactive enclosures provide some degree of automation if they are done well. Springtails clean bits of waste that may not otherwise be picked out. Live plants provide evapotranspiration, regulating humidity instead of misting. Regular upkeep isn't eliminated but is reduced.

Obviously as stated it wouldn't be feasible for a hamster but I don't understand the kneejerk anti-bioactive sentiment that is regularly parroted here. It has it's pros and cons like any other method.

the issue isn't with bioactives, it's how people do them, and the general experience/knowledge of the people doing them.

 

[justcurious22]

Hello,

I have a hamster and am thinking about going part bioactive (removable aquarium with grass and stuff inside the enclosure), that‘s how I found you guys.

Regarding cleanliness in hamsters: hamster are very clean animals. They only pee in one corner, and if the substrate allows it they will dig the soiled bedding up to the top to dry. In nature they would also do this or seal the dirty chamber, since a stron smell of pee can attract preditors and they have adapted to not do that if possible (messy hamsters simply get eaten and don‘t produce much offspring).

As for the quality of life: I can absolutely see if the hamster has a good quality of life. When they do they are curious, inquisitive, very active and display many natural behaviours like foraging, digging tunnels, making food chambers and filling them, running in their wheel (but not for hours on end).
An unhappy hamster will become either apathetic and not show much interest in anything at all, or try to escape its enclosure, or display stereotypic, repetitive behaviour like excessive chewing, jumping up and down on the glass, pacing, monkeybarring or running on the wheel for hours on end.
Bored hamsters might destroy everything by chewing a lot, but a hamster that has lots of enrichment won‘t do that. It simply has better things to do than just repeat one thing over and over.

I also think some species of hamsters are much more suited for a bioactive cage than others. i.e. hybrid dwarf hamsters (and campbell and dsungarian hamsters) like to use burrows they find in the wild, so they don‚t feel the need to dig tunnels as much. One could easily provide them with chambers that are prepared before hand, and most of them will use a toilet if one s offered (just put a small bowl with sand in and they will use it).
A chinese hamster loves to dig and makes its own tunnels, and also changes the tunnels constantly. Much harder to do.
I don‘t know much about syrian hamsters, never had one.

Also, isn‘t the very idea of bioactive that the bugs eat the pee and poo? I don‘t know anyone who has done it for hamsters, but I do know someone who has a bioactive gerbil tank and that seems to work realls well (just dirt, isopods and springtails in there). They seem to love it, are very healthy and it doesn‘t smell at all. She does mist and spotclean though.

So, if anyone has any experience with bioactive for hamsters I would very much appreciate to hear it, especially what bugs, isopods etc to use? There is so much to learn, and information about arid bioactive setups are somewhat hard to find

Best regards!

 

[mickiem]

Hello,

I have a hamster and am thinking about going part bioactive (removable aquarium with grass and stuff inside the enclosure), that‘s how I found you guys.

Regarding cleanliness in hamsters: hamster are very clean animals. They only pee in one corner, and if the substrate allows it they will dig the soiled bedding up to the top to dry. In nature they would also do this or seal the dirty chamber, since a stron smell of pee can attract preditors and they have adapted to not do that if possible (messy hamsters simply get eaten and don‘t produce much offspring).

As for the quality of life: I can absolutely see if the hamster has a good quality of life. When they do they are curious, inquisitive, very active and display many natural behaviours like foraging, digging tunnels, making food chambers and filling them, running in their wheel (but not for hours on end).
An unhappy hamster will become either apathetic and not show much interest in anything at all, or try to escape its enclosure, or display stereotypic, repetitive behaviour like excessive chewing, jumping up and down on the glass, pacing, monkeybarring or running on the wheel for hours on end.
Bored hamsters might destroy everything by chewing a lot, but a hamster that has lots of enrichment won‘t do that. It simply has better things to do than just repeat one thing over and over.

I also think some species of hamsters are much more suited for a bioactive cage than others. i.e. hybrid dwarf hamsters (and campbell and dsungarian hamsters) like to use burrows they find in the wild, so they don‚t feel the need to dig tunnels as much. One could easily provide them with chambers that are prepared before hand, and most of them will use a toilet if one s offered (just put a small bowl with sand in and they will use it).
A chinese hamster loves to dig and makes its own tunnels, and also changes the tunnels constantly. Much harder to do.
I don‘t know much about syrian hamsters, never had one.

Also, isn‘t the very idea of bioactive that the bugs eat the pee and poo? I don‘t know anyone who has done it for hamsters, but I do know someone who has a bioactive gerbil tank and that seems to work realls well (just dirt, isopods and springtails in there). They seem to love it, are very healthy and it doesn‘t smell at all. She does mist and spotclean though.

So, if anyone has any experience with bioactive for hamsters I would very much appreciate to hear it, especially what bugs, isopods etc to use? There is so much to learn, and information about arid bioactive setups are somewhat hard to find

Best regards!

This is what I like about this group - so many experiences and such a broad base of knowledge. You definitely brought in some food for thought! I would think the toilet habits would be easier to clean in animals that pick a spot. I would never exclude springtails in a bioactive substrate. Dwarf white isopods stay buried so the hamsters wouldn't be as apt to eat them all. But I think a larger beetle (dermestid is one but there is another clean up beetle whose name has escaped me) would help a lot. But you would have to have a lot to satiate the hamster! I would be interested in hearing how this goes.

 

[DaveM]

One general argument in favor of bioactive enclosures could be that they afford more opportunities for the creatures to engage in, and for us to witness, animal behaviors as they might occur in the wild.
It could be a good idea to consider the temporal sequence in which you populate the enclosure with organisms present in the natural environment.
Now for a hamster, are you going to add some snakes and birds of prey? I recommend planting ground cover and giving the hamster adequate time to establish burrows in advance.

 

[The Snark]

Bio-Active. Way too braod a term. Consider: Bio-active = life cycle. It isn't static. Growth, sustained life and health, and death and decay are instrinsic. You can keep a plant alive for a long period of time in a sterile environment. But this isn't truly bio-active any more than a potted palm in a hotel lobby.
Some lines need to be drawn. A living decoration at one end, a thriving self sustaining Eco-system . at the other.

 

[Wayfarin]

FALSE

I raised hamsters decades ago before bioactive was a blown up bunch of crap. They never had issue with a clean cage provided by their human animal owners!!

Next thing we will see is bioactive for humans, just crap all over the carpet and piss all over it - have fun everyone! Let us know how you like feeling poops ooze between your toes in bed.

Are you opposed to bioactive enclosures, or just bioactive enclosures that are not appropriate?

 

[viper69]

Are you opposed to bioactive enclosures, or just bioactive enclosures that are not appropriate?

Define bioactive so we both understand first hah

 

[MarkJ]

Bioactive is in essence an attempt at keeping the animal as close to natural as possible...but no one ever seems to consider that animals in captivity, you know the animals that avoid most of those things in their natural world, live 4-15 times longer (depending on species) than their wild counterparts...even when kept in seemingly sub-par conditions like many zoos.

Consider that and the "benefits" of bioactive are really just for the keeper being able to look at a "prettier" enclosure and not at all for any real benefit to the animal.

Every fall in cold climates we see all kinds of animals trying to get in our homes to live...why? I will tell you, because escaping nature is a HUGE benefit for survival....anything discarded by humans, be it cars, sheds, homes or boards or rock walls, etc, are all attractive to wild animals because these things provide a safer home then they could ever achieve on their own in the woods.

I love the people that make the claim that I keep my whatever animal bioactive and they love it....oh really, how are you quantifying the animal's love, are you Dr. Doolittle with the ability to communicate with these animals? I doubt it. These claims seem so real, but they are merely assumptions with no baseline for real world fact.

I think that all animals love living and hate dying, they spend their lives in the wild trying to avoid dying. The claim that 'animals love their bioactive homes' IMO is supported by your own statement that animals in captivity "live 4-15 times longer in captivity". What animal doesn't love being alive?

When it comes to salt water aquariums bioactive tanks are essential, they are not just for me to look at something pretty although it is a huge benefit as well. Most of the marine life I keep would die very quickly if they were not living in my reef tanks.

 

[Dry Desert]

Define bioactive so we both understand first hah

The problem with defining Bio - Active is the Oxford dictionary definition and most people's interpretation are miles apart.

All this bio active can be blamed on the Dart Frog fraternity.

People long ago saw dart frog enclosures and thought " I want to keep my " whatever " like that, and away we go.

Enter the money making department.

Most captive kept exotics are Nocturnal that live in deep burrows, given the chance, and obviously only appear at night to hunt - they don't give a hoot about different thicknesses branches or pretty plants, some of which close at night anyway. They just come out to hunt, feed and find a mate.

I think most people's idea of bio active is to chuck a load of different species, including plants, that seem to get on reasonably well together, into the same enclosure, have loads of CUC, ( that'll cut down on maintenance ideal ) Have it reasonably well established, and hey presto - bio active.

As someone mentioned earlier, it's far more important to establish the correct substrate conditions than planting things to attempt what the keeper thinks is bio active.

An example from my own experience is my keeping my Salamanders in bio active set up. They spend all day, even weeks, hidden in their logs, and come out for a short spell to eat.

I tried all the mosses, leaves, plants etc, they don't give a hoot, just looks pretty, for my benefit.
@MarkJ reef tanks don't need to be so called bio active.
Any one of your marine inhabitants would be quite happy on their own given the correct water temperature, salinity, lighting and some proper cover to avoid stress,once again having lots of inhabitants in the same enclosure for the benefit of the keeper.

I think possibly the correct term for these enclosures would be SYMBIOTIC not Bio Active, as to be 100% bioactive you would need to introduce predators, not really viable in the captive environment.

 

[MarkJ]

T
@MarkJ reef tanks don't need to be so called bio active.
Any one of your marine inhabitants would be quite happy on their own given the correct water temperature, salinity, lighting and some proper cover to avoid stress,once again having lots of inhabitants in the same enclosure for the benefit of the keeper.

Not from my experiences and I've built salt water reef tanks for decades.

But then hey, you could probably keep people alive like this, think of the space in the world you would save and how happy everyone would be....